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Thread: Richard's hi-fi ranting 'Room 101'

  1. #21
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    I like this thread. Richard makes some interesting and valid points.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Toy View Post
    I like this thread. Richard makes some interesting and valid points.
    So you don't you like rhubarb and semolina either

  3. #23
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: North East UK

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    Tell me more of this 'Beresford' please!

    Am I looking in the right place HERE ?

    ???
    Shian7
    --------------------------------------------------------

    Kudakutemo
    kudakutemo

    ari mizu-no tsuki

    Though it be be broken -
    broken again - still it's there:
    the moon on the water.

    - Choshu.

  4. #24
    Join Date: Jan 2008

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    I'm OneOfTheSevenModsWhoToldMarcoNotToLiftHarry'sBan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shian7 View Post
    Tell me more of this 'Beresford' please!

    Am I looking in the right place HERE ?

    ???


    Yes.

    I've been using one since just before Xmas,making a Perpetual Technologies DAC and upsampler redundant.

    Well worth a punt at £100.00 delivered.
    ATB

    David

  5. #25
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Gloucestershire

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    As Richard isn't ranting I thought I would.

    Hi Fi has been declining and businesses have been going bust, absorbed and sold since the early eighties, the process has been relentless and progressive with periodic acceleration caused by economic downturn or major manufacturing hiccups. In '97 for instance, as manufacturers tried to reduce the costs of CD mechs and adapt them for computer usage, some very unreliable ones were sold and in my opinion they damaged quite a few hi fi companies irreparably. In more recent years more damage has been done by Copy protection, CD's that wouldn't play in CD players did in computers while iPods were in the ascendency. And while all this has been going on, TV technology and DVD players have been making the running.

    IMO Computers and TVs are merging because people need the space and just as Youtube is more popular than TV with some groups, adverts are most effective with C3 women and very ineffective with older and usually richer men who, apart from manual menial, are very computer literate and enjoy music.

    Because of all these changes, many of which are happening quickly like the move to downloads for music billed as the fastest format change on record, hi fi enthusiasts have become marginalised. I also think that (as do many relative outsiders like us) that many are unhappy with their systems although they don't want to admit it just yet. If you look at PF for instance, many posts describe awful sounding gear and there are also people experimenting with all sorts of technically unsound but fun projects like valves, vinyl and horns. If hi fi was any good, nobody would be talking about it, they'd discuss music instead, surely?

    The net result of all these changes for the magazines and the manufacturers is that a cosy little circle remains. A small group of companies, retailers and magazines have cosied up together to maintain a what amounts to a Cartel. I'm sure that it's just happened, that there is nothing sinister about it and that there's no deliberate dishonesty or corruption, just as I'm sure that it doesn't serve the customer well, which is why he's not getting particularly good sound and he's paying through the nose for it.

    I see it all changing in the next year or so, not just because Camridge Audio is better and cheaper than much of it, but because Computers (Apple especially) PS3's, Sonos and numerous cheaper streaming devices have made CD players redundant, all that's now needed is a DAC an Amp and speakers, probably 2.1 for TV and movies as well. Despite silly arguments from those with axes to grind, most accept that noughts and ones are all the same and that it's the DAC that matters.

    If these predictions prove true then most of the kit to do it can come from discount or online stores and Pro Audio outlets for a fraction of the price of super overpriced allegedly hi end. And they might do, because houses are being built smaller and people are more interested than they used to be in "design", "minimalism" and saving space.

    Has anyone experienced a 24" iMac with Elgato TV, Front Row and a decent hi fi? Because they should, Apple (and others soon) will probably revolutionise TV. Instead of putting up adverts and having to watch at specific times, you'll soon be able to buy and watch whatever you want when you want it and you'll soon be able to rent a movie without it being part of a Sky rental package or having to go to Blockbusters or whatever. If all this doesn't happen quickly, it'll damage Movie companies as much as it has Music ones, who've completely misjudged the situation and suffered as a consequence. Rumours are that CD sales are dropping more quickly this than last year.

    I know that hi fi enthusiasts may not watch much TV, but these options will affect some just as others will increase computer usage - getting away from Microsoft operating systems and moving better integrated ones with better media functions will accelerate the pace of change.

    The future is very exciting indeed, we've never had access to more music or more different types, however, for companies making boxes, cables, stands, add on upgrades etc etc, I think life will get harder still.
    Last edited by Ashley James; 16-03-2008 at 16:26.

  6. #26
    Join Date: Jan 2008

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashley James View Post
    As Richard isn't ranting I thought I would.

    Hi Fi has been declining and businesses have been going bust, absorbed and sold since the early eighties, the process has been relentless and progressive with periodic acceleration caused by economic downturn or major manufacturing hiccups. In '97 for instance, as manufacturers tried to reduce the costs of CD mechs and adapt them for computer usage, some very unreliable ones were sold and in my opinion they damaged quite a few hi fi companies irreparably. In more recent years more damage has been done by Copy protection, CD's that wouldn't play in CD players did in computers while iPods were in the ascendency. And while all this has been going on, TV technology and DVD players have been making the running.

    IMO Computers and TVs are merging because people need the space and just as Youtube is more popular than TV with some groups, adverts are most effective with C3 women and very ineffective with older and usually richer men who, apart from manual menial, are very computer literate and enjoy music.

    Because of all these changes, many of which are happening quickly like the move to downloads for music billed as the fastest format change on record, hi fi enthusiasts have become marginalised. I also think that (as do many relative outsiders like us) that many are unhappy with their systems although they don't want to admit it just yet. If you look at PF for instance, many posts describe awful sounding gear and there are also people experimenting with all sorts of technically unsound but fun projects like valves, vinyl and horns. If hi fi was any good, nobody would be talking about it, they'd discuss music instead, surely?

    The net result of all these changes for the magazines and the manufacturers is that a cosy little circle remains. A small group of companies, retailers and magazines have cosied up together to maintain a what amounts to a Cartel. I'm sure that it's just happened, that there is nothing sinister about it and that there's no deliberate dishonesty or corruption, just as I'm sure that it doesn't serve the customer well, which is why he's not getting particularly good sound and he's paying through the nose for it.

    I see it all changing in the next year or so, not just because Camridge Audio is better and cheaper than much of it, but because Computers (Apple especially) PS3's, Sonos and numerous cheaper streaming devices have made CD players redundant, all that's now needed is a DAC an Amp and speakers, probably 2.1 for TV and movies as well. Despite silly arguments from those with axes to grind, most accept that noughts and ones are all the same and that it's the DAC that matters.

    If these predictions prove true then most of the kit to do it can come from discount or online stores and Pro Audio outlets for a fraction of the price of super overpriced allegedly hi end. And they might do, because houses are being built smaller and people are more interested than they used to be in "design", "minimalism" and saving space.

    Has anyone experienced a 24" iMac with Elgato TV, Front Row and a decent hi fi? Because they should, Apple (and others soon) will probably revolutionise TV. Instead of putting up adverts and having to watch at specific times, you'll soon be able to buy and watch whatever you want when you want it and you'll soon be able to rent a movie without it being part of a Sky rental package or having to go to Blockbusters or whatever. If all this doesn't happen quickly, it'll damage Movie companies as much as it has Music ones, who've completely misjudged the situation and suffered as a consequence. Rumours are that CD sales are dropping more quickly this than last year.

    I know that hi fi enthusiasts may not watch much TV, but these options will affect some just as others will increase computer usage - getting away from Microsoft operating systems and moving better integrated ones with better media functions will accelerate the pace of change.

    The future is very exciting indeed, we've never had access to more music or more different types, however, for companies making boxes, cables, stands, add on upgrades etc etc, I think life will get harder still.
    So you want to use an anti marketing and bullshit thread to perpetuate it, I admire your gall

    The sign of a skillfull marketer and politician is to spin criticism into a way of promoting *your* ideas and products. You are obviously good at your job Well sorry I don't agree. Hi-Fi was (and will be again) for enthusiasts - MUSIC!!!!! - not products and what *YOU* want to promote. Forget the mainstream, it has gone, the tech-ie wally anorak is going to be in charge again like he was in the 50's and the early 60's, mind you don't get killed by his badges and the pens in the top pocket.

    The mainstream industry has been effectively killed by marketing and greed and thankfully people are beginning to see it. Computer products - retail margin 15% ave, High End Hi-Fi - retail margin 100% only beaten by traditional furniture shops 200% which is why there are so many half price deals. They are still ripping us off. Go on prove me wrong publish your manufacturing cost v your retail price!

  7. #27
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Posts: 544

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shian7 View Post
    Tell me more of this 'Beresford' please!

    Am I looking in the right place HERE ?

    ???
    Ask Jerry - JandL100 - Jerry nearly got himself banned from WW for saying it was the best vfm dac around. He got a following at WW lots tried it and it became quite a cult thing especially as being an enthusiast he changed it every week (up to Mk 15 and a half now probably ) Jerry found it and the small guy making it and selling them on ebay. An enthusiast, a tech-ie, someone trying to make a living (or probably just some spending money, most of these guys have other jobs) by doing something he loves. BUT no *not allowed*, a bit of grissle in the trough slurp to irritate the pig snouts, so it was spat out and banned to be talked about.

  8. #28
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Gloucestershire

    Posts: 252

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    I didn't think I was marketing anything Richard, just expressing an opinion as to the state of the market and guessing what might happen.

    As for margins, I've heard it said that Cambridge Audio's manufacturers were previously making computer parts and struggling to make a profit, switching to hi fi has given them 20% and they are offering value for money and a bloody good product.

    Aren't the M-Audio transit, the M-Audio 2496 both at around £50 and the Edirol UA 25 at a bit over £100 from major manufacturers good value too?

  9. #29
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Posts: 544

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashley James View Post
    I didn't think I was marketing anything Richard, just expressing an opinion as to the state of the market and guessing what might happen.

    As for margins, I've heard it said that Cambridge Audio's manufacturers were previously making computer parts and struggling to make a profit, switching to hi fi has given them 20% and they are offering value for money and a bloody good product.

    Aren't the M-Audio transit, the M-Audio 2496 both at around £50 and the Edirol UA 25 at a bit over £100 from major manufacturers good value too?

    You are a re marketing man through and through Ashley, what have you designed or built? You do a good job fronting your company.

    Any way this should not lead to personal conflict. I just have an allergy to marketers and marketing. I get itchy nose and start sneezing everytime I read one or meet one. I try to avoid discomfort and disease so I will let others judge.

  10. #30
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    Location: Central England

    Posts: 2,932

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    Ashley, I was mindful of the state of the industry when I thought up the Art of Sound Forum. This place exists to support that industry because your vision of the future may turn out to be true and probably will but I for one hope it does not because such a future does not seem at all concerned with quality of reproduction of recorded music. The market could not care less about quality apart from our little niche.

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