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Thread: Audio files format and the quest for answers

  1. #21
    Join Date: Mar 2009

    Location: Hemel Hempstead

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    I'm Steve.

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    Hi Stan.

    Nothings better than WAV for playback as that's comepletely uncompressed, but any lossless format will perform just as well because when uncompressed they also produce a bit-perfect version of the original (allowing for any 'normal' errors of course).

    The limitation with WAV is storage space (needing approx double the space of lossless files, though this is less of an issue now with HD space being so cheap) and the fact that WAV files don't support ID3 tagging, which means that any song info, artwork etc. only exists in a referenced library and not within the song file itself. This is fine if all is well, but lose your library for any reason and sorting out your music files could be a hell of a job.
    Steve aka 'Twelvebears' (it's a long story)
    System: Technics 1210 Mk5, Jelco 750 arm, AT33EV via MF X-LP2 Phono Stage, Oyaide mat and record clamp. SB Touch via Marantz PM-11S1 amp and Wilson Benesch A.C.T. speakers. Mark Grant cables and PS Audio Power Plant Premier mains regenerator.
    (\__/)
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  2. #22
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: http://www.homehifi.co.uk

    Posts: 6,288

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    Quote Originally Posted by twelvebears View Post
    ...WAV files don't support ID3 tagging, which means that any song info, artwork etc. only exists in a referenced library and not within the song file itself. This is fine if all is well, but lose your library for any reason and sorting out your music files could be a hell of a job.
    If you use TAG&RENAME you can now add tags. The same goes for if you use Mediamonkey. I have been using them for a while now. Both can add the tags automatically via the freedb online database.

    Stan

  3. #23
    Join Date: Nov 2008

    Location: Valley of the Hazels

    Posts: 9,139
    I'm AMusicFanNotAnAudiophile.

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    My rant about the Apple/iTunes thing earlier got a little bit out of hand - I've been in hospital for the best part of a week having a very serious op and initial recuperation, and as a result I am very tired - them hospitals are bloody noisy places and it's hell trying to get any sleep ! Thankfully I'm back at home now, and get all the rest I need.

    And it's the first time I've needed to use a portable personal music player in 12 years or so - radio on the Patientline bedside terminals is very limited. A friend lent me a Creative Labs player for the duration.

    At home I use Squeezebox a huge amount, and as I've said, nearly all of my music is FLAC.
    Which is free, and not tied into any company.

    I have played around a little bit with the iTunes App and it seems to be a fairly friendly program, just so long as you don't want to see album covers, 'cos then you need to open an account and enter CC details. I doubt if I would want to purchase music from the store, as it's all MP3.

    I did rip a CD in both AAC and ALAC formats (Steely Dans' Two Against Nature) just to see if I could play them using Squeezebox and to compare them with my FLAC rip. They did both play, and IIRC the FLAC and ALAC rips were pretty well indistinguishable from each other. Then I found out that the Squeezecenter Server converts ALAC to FLAC on the fly - not a good comparison then !

    It is possible to buy FLAC downloads from sites such as http://www.hdtracks.com/ , so why not ALAC (or FLAC - will an iPod play FLAC ? Oh yeah, FLAC is not propriatory to Apple, is it ?) from the iTunes store. RIAA considerations may not be too big an issue.

    I think that the iPod is a well designed, sexy to handle and easy to use piece of kit. I personally have little need for one though. So I don't have one.

    As far as source equipment is concerned, each to his (or her) own. You enjoy your iPod Codifus - I'll stick to my Squeezebox

    Cheers all


    Chris

  4. #24
    Join Date: Apr 2009

    Location: Oakengates, Shropshire

    Posts: 654
    I'm Richard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stratmangler View Post

    Doing a URL sniff whilst using the Lab Rat stuff playing Radio 2 live gives me the bog standard URL feed that I already have in the iPlayer plugin on Squeezecenter.

    The feed is this http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/listen/live/r2.asx and it is WMA, not AAC/AAC+ , and comes out at 96kbs.

    The listen again service operates at 128kbs , and is also a WMA feed.

    Chris
    Hi Chris,

    It looks like you're looking in the wrong place. The link you provide is indeed 96kbps WMA, but if you go here:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/playlive/bbc_radio_two

    ...and look at the properties for the stream and you get:
    BBC Media Player V2.14.10344.10570 bbc_radio_two | 128 | aac | AK

    The same goes for the other stations.
    Last edited by lovejoy; 18-06-2009 at 17:49.
    Rich

  5. #25
    Join Date: Apr 2009

    Location: Oakengates, Shropshire

    Posts: 654
    I'm Richard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave&Sue View Post
    Attn. Lovejoy,
    Hi again Rich,
    Just installed iPlayer on my PC running Vista Home Premium - everything seemed to go OK and I have got all the web pages and tabs etc..When I click on TV Stations, choose any and click 'Now Playing' I get the required programme.
    However, when I click on Radio Stations, choose any, then 'Now Playing', I get the little rotating thingummy on a small blank screen. Then everything stops and I get the message that Explorer has stopped working, is looking for a solution and then restarts. Clicking again on 'now playing' gets exactly the same response - any ideas?
    Hi Dave, when you say you installed iPlayer, what did you actually install? You should need no extra software other than your internet browser and make sure Flash is installed which is required for all BBC iPlayer material, so I assume that if you have TV playback OK, then you must have Flash already.

    Might just be worth making sure you have the latest versions of your browser and Flash plugin. Nothing else springs to mind immediately though.
    Rich

  6. #26
    Join Date: Apr 2009

    Location: Sheffield

    Posts: 2,026
    I'm Confused.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lovejoy View Post
    Hi Chris,

    It looks like you're looking in the wrong place. The link you provide is indeed 96kbps WMA, but if you go here:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/playlive/bbc_radio_two

    ...and look at the properties for the stream and you get:
    BBC Media Player V2.14.10344.10570 bbc_radio_two | 128 | aac | AK

    The same goes for the other stations.
    Hi Rich,
    First of all, thanks for your response on the iPlayer radio no-play situation - I'll persist a bit more.
    The main reason for posting this message is regarding the above quote (a bit). I have my Sky HD box coupled up to the DAC7520 using optical and use this facility to listen to digital Radio. Just out of interest have you any idea what is the quality of the signal of radio broadcasts on Sky?
    Cheers.
    DaveK.

    My System:
    Power: Belkin PF40, Custom.hifi.cables Hydra and DC PSUs.
    Sources: Self built HTPC with Xonar ST sound card, NAD T585 multi disc player, Sony BDP-S350, Squeezebox Touch, Techncs SL1210 (mod'd) + Nagaoka MP30, Thomson Sky HD box.
    Amps etc.: 2 x Mini-T amps, MF-X10D Valve buffer clone, StanDAC 7520/Caiman (mod'd).
    Speakers: Mission 774s with added super tweeters
    Cables: best I can afford and likely to change except Homar's RF attenuated co-ax's and Mark Grant USB and HDMI cables. I also like silver i/cs and speaker cable.

  7. #27
    Join Date: Apr 2009

    Location: Oakengates, Shropshire

    Posts: 654
    I'm Richard.

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    Hi Dave,
    Last time I looked at this, the vast majority of radio stations on Sky are broadcast at 192kbps MP2. Certainly better than DAB and better than the standard BBC iPlayer WMA streams.
    Rich

  8. #28
    Join Date: Nov 2008

    Location: Valley of the Hazels

    Posts: 9,139
    I'm AMusicFanNotAnAudiophile.

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    Thanks for the link Rich.

    What are you using to analyse the streams ?

    I am very tired atm (see earlier hospital mention) and stumped !

    Chris

    Just caught the right click button o my mousepad and lo and behold the properties show up as AAC stream - told you I was tired.
    Last edited by Stratmangler; 18-06-2009 at 19:48. Reason: adding additional info

  9. #29
    Join Date: Nov 2008

    Location: Valley of the Hazels

    Posts: 9,139
    I'm AMusicFanNotAnAudiophile.

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    Hi Rich

    Just done another URL snoop using URLSnooper 2 and get the same stream as I've posted coming back.

    Everything else is showing as flash media, which Squeezecenter won't play ball with.

    And I've also had what may be a very relevant thought - my DSL is less than 2meg, and iPlayer may be set to limit streams available to me.

    Dunno !

    Chris

    now that I've seen that the streams are flash I now know why Squeezecenter won't see the damned things.
    Last edited by Stratmangler; 18-06-2009 at 19:50. Reason: additional info

  10. #30
    Join Date: Nov 2008

    Location: Valley of the Hazels

    Posts: 9,139
    I'm AMusicFanNotAnAudiophile.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lovejoy View Post
    Hi Dave,
    Last time I looked at this, the vast majority of radio stations on Sky are broadcast at 192kbps MP2. Certainly better than DAB and better than the standard BBC iPlayer WMA streams.
    Hi Dave

    I also seem to remember reading that the Sky stations are 192kbs MP2.

    The analog outputs on a Sky+ box are quite shouty - can't comment on HD box. I have hooked my Sky+ box up to my TC7510 and TV & radio sound much better (read as really good).

    I can imagine that your TC7520 sounds quite a bit better than the analog outs on the HD box.

    Chris

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