Speaker Positioning Advice Please.

[Yiangos]

Hi Dave

I wouldn't call it "a mistake" but it wouldn't hurt to try.The reason i asked you to place blutac underneath them,is because you said the feeling of the sound of the speaker's sound to "dissappear" was lost.Actually,other than placing them correctly and decouple them from their stands,is to make they are properly connected,ie. the red(+) cable from the amp to the red(+) cable of the speaker etc.

[DaveK]

Hi Jim,
Thanks for the feedback and sorry for the delay in respondding. This response is by way of being a 'holding operaion' until I can get round to giving you a full response to your request for further information. I am very interested in any advice you may give which might improve my listening experience, so I aim to give you a fully detailed drawing of the room. My Listening Room (otherwise known as the lounge or main living room) is a most unusual shape and construction, which must have an adverse effect on the accoustics. Tonight I have taken a few key measurements and will try and turn them into some sort of understandable layout drawing for you ASAP.
I offer my provisional response to some of your information, in blue, below.

Sexy looking speakers there, Dave, and with some technology at work. Dovetailing the cabinet is meant to reduce standing waves in your enclosure and having your tweeter sit somewhat atop your cabinet is meant to reduce diffraction. SOME diffraction. Were I to make what I make for your speakers they would follow the contour of your tweeter mounting plate (tho nearer the driver) below the top of your cabinet and extend out to the edges of your cabinet and to the top of the mounting basket of your mid/bass driver. Out of interest, what would such a package cost, shipped to UK, and would it be necessary to get into the speaker cabinets to install them as there does not appear to be any ready way in that I can see, no screws or other fastenings. Then you would have NO reflection off your baffles and no discontinuity to info produced by your tweeters. But, honestly, while I am confident you'd be the happier for it, I can't say that is why you are hearing your speakers as sources. From the looks of them, I wouldn't think you would be. But, I am curious about the possibility of a discontinuity to the output of your tweeters- well, not actually the output, rather what happens to it- having them split that way.

Talk to us about your toe-in, the distance to your listening position, what, if anything (eek!), is between you and your speakers. Speakers are 8' apart and the listening position is 8' away from each. Toe in is such that each speaker is 'aimed at' the listening position. Tweeter centre is 40" from floor (ear height when listening). I have tried a variety of combiations of toe in and distance from back wall - thes have made some differences but I am yet to find a 'sweet spot'. Your disc player in phase? I haven't a clue as to what that might mean or involve but I can advise that most of my listening is sourced from a Sony Vaio MM PC, mixtures of compressed and uncompressed files, USB 2.0 routed through a Beresford 7520 DAC to a Marantz PM6010OSE KI amp and no matter what is the source (TT, DVD-A, CD or PC), it doesn't seem to make any difference to that aspect of the listening experience. All your wire correctly hooked up? To the best of my knowledge. I have used one of those 'Set Up Your Hi-Fi' CDs which told me everything was fine. And a photo or a diagram would be most helpful if you could provide it. On their way but it might take a day or two.

Btw, those stands on the Mezzo page at the site are Atacama's and cost only about a hundred bucks US. My stands are home made, from pine, design copied from RC60 de luxe stands which got a decent write up in the UK press. Had to go this way due to WAF - she doesn't like 'industrial, oil rig' looking bits of metal in her home , which is fair enough !

That's about it for the moment but will be in touch later with more info.
Thanks again and
Cheers,

[DaveK]

Hi again Jim,
I despair ever understanding the subject of 'audiophilia'. My background loosely is in engineering so I better understand things when I can understand the logic behind it. Unfortunately 'audiophilia' is a black art which defies logic, IMHO.
Since I last posted I have been listening to PC sourced tracks, and moved the speakers out about a foot from the back wall, which is my usual listening position for the speakers, but by mistake, when doing this I managed to get them 'too much' toe in such that they 'aimed' to intersect about 2 to 3 feet in front of my ears. Lo and behold, the speakers have nearly 'disappeared' again.
I daren't move them again at the moment and am just enjoying the experience of being one step near audio Nirvana, but my plan is to get some masking tape to temporarily mark their current position so that I can carry out further, (hopefully minor, but who knows with this subject ), tweaks. The whole b----y subject is beyond me !!!.
Cheers,

[jimdgoulding]

Dave- Hi. Thanks for the conversion for we yanks. As I may have said previously, your stage will expand and your speakers image better, themselves disappearing better, if your speakers were out further from the back wall. But, you want to keep your triangle with your speakers equidistant like you've described. To make matters more inconvenient, there shouldn't be anything bulky between your listening position and your speakers, as well.

My product will damp the reflective surface adjacent to your tweeters and your cabinet edges where waveforms are arbitrarily re-launched. The link below is to an animated illustration of what I am talking about. The blue lines contain information your system is resolving. The red and green lines are redundant and arrive out of time and phase. This should be audible for you once my product is in place. It attaches to your speakers' baffle surface with removable Velcro tabs. The pads will reduce the strength of waveforms above your crossover traveling to and from your nearby walls, also. Your cost is $55.95US plus $7.50 for shipping overseas. You may try them out for thirty days and return them for a full refund if you don't hear an appreciable improvement to things.

http://www.silcom.com/~aludwig/images/diffdem.gif

My site address for info and reviewer and customer capsules: www.diffractionbegone.com

[DaveK]

Thanks Jim for the detailed response. I can follow the logic behind your product, and the price and 30 day exchange policy make it easy to give them a try.
But, (there's always a but, unfortunately !), I have the WAF to contend with. Because of this the speaker gauze covers have to be in place (or at least replaceable, over your product, when speakers are not in use), and there just isn't room for anything thicker than a piece of tissue paper between the gauze frame and the front 'plate' of the speaker box.
When I get the time I'll convert my room measurements into a layout diagram of my (unique) listening area to solicit any suggestions you or others may have. The main suggestion that I am expecting is "Take up knitting" !!
Thanks again,
Cheers,

[jimdgoulding]

Thanks Jim for the detailed response. I can follow the logic behind your product, and the price and 30 day exchange policy make it easy to give them a try.
But, (there's always a but, unfortunately !), I have the WAF to contend with. Because of this the speaker gauze covers have to be in place (or at least replaceable, over your product, when speakers are not in use), and there just isn't room for anything thicker than a piece of tissue paper between the gauze frame and the front 'plate' of the speaker box.
When I get the time I'll convert my room measurements into a layout diagram of my (unique) listening area to solicit any suggestions you or others may have. The main suggestion that I am expecting is "Take up knitting" !!
Thanks again,
Cheers,

Listen well. Best. Jim

[roscoeiii]

For matters such as speaker placement and so many more areas of audio set-up, I have benefitted immeasurably from Jim Smith's book "Get Better Sound." His suggestions can border on revelatory, and he has nice clear illustrations in addition to discussions of how to deal with less than ideal spaces.

[DaveK]

For matters such as speaker placement and so many more areas of audio set-up, I have benefitted immeasurably from Jim Smith's book "Get Better Sound." His suggestions can border on revelatory, and he has nice clear illustrations in addition to discussions of how to deal with less than ideal spaces.

Good Morning roscoeiii,
Thanks for the pointer. I have done a Google search for this book and my results are that it is only available in the USA (Amazon.com). Two used paperback copies are available from different sellers, one priced at $75 and the other at $150, plus $12.50 for international shipping. I would take an awful lot of persuasion to pay these sort of prices for a second hand paperback book on any subject, unless it was a Shakespeare first edition !!
I think that I will persist with trial and error, and free guidance from other forum members - good progress has been made so far following this path.
Thanks again,

[REM]

Hi DaveC

There are reviews here

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Iss...ettersound.htm

and here

http://www.sixmoons.com/audioreviews...ttersound.html

and you can buy it from his own website (what a surprise) here

http://www.getbettersound.com/

Looks like Amazon are 'avin a larf, innit. Still not cheap though, HTH

Cheers

[DaveK]

Hi Ralph,
Thanks for the info. $44.50 + P&P is much better than $150 + P&P but still not cheap. I propose (and I'm looking for seconders ) that the forum starts a lending library for members and starts with this book - I'll volunteer to write the first forum review .
If funds ever get back to respectable I might invest and then rent it out to other members for $10 per week - anybody interested?
Cheers,
Dave.