Vintage speaker ramblings.....

[spendorman]

Hi Barry, I have to admit that I don’t use tuners very much now. Generally it’s internet radio (some good quality stations around) or a portable for talk programs. Some might frown, but I find that my middle of the road Creative soundcard fed straight into a power amp works pretty well. Amps that are used, Radford STA25 III, Quad 303, Quad 405-2 (Burr Brown op amps), Quad II, Radford SPA50, Radford ZD50. My favourites are the Radford STA25 III and Quad II. Speakers alternate, between Chartwell LS3/5a, BBC LS3/6, Spendor BC1, BC2, B&W DM1, DM2, DM3, DM4, DM5, Quad ESL57, ESL63, Various KEF, Rogers, LS2, LS7, JR149, Various old KEFs, Various old Celestions and more. Believe it or not I am getting enjoyment out of some cheap JPW Gold Monitors that have been modified by adding more damping.

To compare tuners at home fairly is difficult as not easy to do a proper A/B.
All the tuners (You are correct, the Radford is a FMT-2, but I had to look on the back panel to check!) don’t sound that different. I do seem to remember that I thought that the FM3 was very slightly brighter at the top end than the FM4, Ravensbourne or Radford.

For some time now one can get the Ravensbourne very cheap, strange, when it’s pretty good.

[Barry]

....... Radford STA25 III, Quad 303, Quad 405-2 (Burr Brown op amps), Quad II, Radford SPA50, Radford ZD50..........Speakers alternate, between Chartwell LS3/5a, BBC LS3/6, Spendor BC1, BC2, B&W DM1, DM2, DM3, DM4, DM5, Quad ESL57, ESL63, Various KEF, Rogers, LS2, LS7, JR149, Various old KEFs, Various old Celestions and more.

Wow! What an amazing collection of classic British equipment you have there 'spendorman'. Respect! I'm most envious.

Would you be interested in writing a piece about the BBC LS3/6 for AoS? Or how the Rogers LS2 and LS7 compare with the LS3/5A? I ask because I am interested in using the latter speakers with my TV.

Thanks

Barry

[spendorman]

Hi Barry and anyone interested.

Unfortunately there are many more speakers including Spendor Preludes, some very old Wharfdales , Tannoy, Tangent (forgot those RS2 and RS4) and quite a few home built concoctions. Inc. LS3/5a clones, Kef B200+Celestion HF1300 + Coles 4001G) EMI 14”x9” +Audax mid+Celestion HF1300+ Coles 4001G , Goodmans early Alnico Axiette 8” + Peerless soft dome tweeter. One day I should make a full list. I think it may be frightening.

I find it difficult to meaningfully describe the difference between speakers.
My good friend (completely non technical, whose Dad was technical Manager of Vitavox and was on the team designing the Klipschorn) said of speakers:

“All speakers are coloured, it’s just that the good ones have nice sounding coloration”

I will say that the LS3/5a (mine are early Chartwell 15 Ohm versions) are very good small speakers. They excel on small scale classical. However for rock (loud) these are not the ones.

The LS3/6 are very nice, unfortunately, they do not have the original bass/ mid units. These were damaged and that is how I got the speakers. However, after considering using various alternative bass/ mids (including BC1) I decided that some Dalesford 8” Bextrene units may be good. The reasoning is that I believe that some Rogers Export Monitors may have used these. LS3/6, Rogers Export Monitor, Rogers Studio 1 and Spendor BC1 are all closely related.

The choice has worked well, the LS3/6 have more controlled bass than the BC1 (I have several vintages of BC1). The mid is less coloured than the BC1 and the LS3/6 uses a Celestion HF2000 as a supertweeter instead of the Coles 4001G. This is an advantage as it is less delicate (can take more power) than the Coles.

So my LS3/6 are not original, but I am very pleased with them, and they can take more power that the standard LS3/6. Good sounding as the original LS3/6 bass/ mid was, it could not take much power.

Believe it or not I think I could be happy with just the LS3/6, the LS3/5a for second system and, wait for it!! the JPW Gold Monitors. I do like the electrostatics, but with all this equipment and no space left, they are rarely placed in ideal positions.

Apologies for all this rambling, that’s all it is.

Oh, I'm not answering your questions. LS2 I found very detailed in the mid, but a bit too coloured in the mid compared to LS3/5a. LS7, better in the mid and bass than LS2, very detailed and articulate, but the top end does not seem to heave the finnesse of speakers that used Celestion HF1300 and a supertweeter (eg. Spendor BC1, B&W DM1, DM2, DM3, DM4, LS3/6).

To be pedantic, the DM3 did not use Celestion HF1300, it was a Celestion HF1400, which is a 1300 with a bigger magnet.

[Spectral Morn]

Useful rambling spendorman very useful. Thanks for asking Barry as I don't like to be to pushy looking for new write ups for AOS.


Regards D S D L

[Barry]

Hi Barry and anyone interested.

Unfortunately there are many more speakers including Spendor Preludes, some very old Wharfdales , Tannoy, Tangent (forgot those RS2 and RS4) and quite a few home built concoctions. Inc. LS3/5a clones, Kef B200+Celestion HF1300 + Coles 4001G) EMI 14”x9” +Audax mid+Celestion HF1300+ Coles 4001G , Goodmans early Alnico Axiette 8” + Peerless soft dome tweeter. One day I should make a full list. I think it may be frightening.

I find it difficult to meaningfully describe the difference between speakers.
My good friend (completely non technical, whose Dad was technical Manager of Vitavox and was on the team designing the Klipschorn) said of speakers:

“All speakers are coloured, it’s just that the good ones have nice sounding coloration”

I will say that the LS3/5a (mine are early Chartwell 15 Ohm versions) are very good small speakers. They excel on small scale classical. However for rock (loud) these are not the ones.

The LS3/6 are very nice, unfortunately, they do not have the original bass/ mid units. These were damaged and that is how I got the speakers. However, after considering using various alternative bass/ mids (including BC1) I decided that some Dalesford 8” Bextrene units may be good. The reasoning is that I believe that some Rogers Export Monitors may have used these. LS3/6, Rogers Export Monitor, Rogers Studio 1 and Spendor BC1 are all closely related.

The choice has worked well, the LS3/6 have more controlled bass than the BC1 (I have several vintages of BC1). The mid is less coloured than the BC1 and the LS3/6 uses a Celestion HF2000 as a supertweeter instead of the Coles 4001G. This is an advantage as it is less delicate (can take more power) than the Coles.

So my LS3/6 are not original, but I am very pleased with them, and they can take more power that the standard LS3/6. Good sounding as the original LS3/6 bass/ mid was, it could not take much power.

Believe it or not I think I could be happy with just the LS3/6, the LS3/5a for second system and, wait for it!! the JPW Gold Monitors. I do like the electrostatics, but with all this equipment and no space left, they are rarely placed in ideal positions.

Apologies for all this rambling, that’s all it is.

Oh, I'm not answering your questions. LS2 I found very detailed in the mid, but a bit too coloured in the mid compared to LS3/5a. LS7, better in the mid and bass than LS2, very detailed and articulate, but the top end does not seem to heave the finnesse of speakers that used Celestion HF1300 and a supertweeter (eg. Spendor BC1, B&W DM1, DM2, DM3, DM4, LS3/6).

To be pedantic, the DM3 did not use Celestion HF1300, it was a Celestion HF1400, which is a 1300 with a bigger magnet.

Hi Spendorman,

Thanks for the write up. More or less reinforces my impressions. I have a high regard for BBC designs and know that licensed manufacturers have quite often offered 'domestic' models based on the BBC designs. I remember hearing the Rogers BBC Studio Monitors many years ago. I knew it was based on the LS3/6 but with an additional tweeter. It was very good and at the time I think I preferred it to the Spendor BC1, however I could afford neither.

Your comments regarding the Rogers LS2 and LS7 vis-a-vis the LS3/5a are very interesting. First of all let me say that the Chartwell's LS3/5a are considered to be the best of the various versions that were licensed. I am looking for a small bookshelf sized set of spreakers to use with my TV. I had either the Rodgers LS7 or LS3/5a in mind - looks like I will have to track down a reasonably priced pair of 3/5a s after all! At the moment I am using a pair of Eltax 1621 speakers (a three unit ported design) that I picked up for virtually nothing and which work very well, so there is no great rush to change them; however a pair of 3/5a s would be nice. I have the opportunity to get a pair of B&W DM2s cheap, and would appreciate your opinion on the use of these for TV use.

Again thanks for the write up.

Regards
Barry

PS Where do you keep all those speakers of yours?

[spendorman]

Hi Spendorman,

Thanks for the write up. More or less reinforces my impressions. I have a high regard for BBC designs and know that licensed manufacturers have quite often offered 'domestic' models based on the BBC designs. I remember hearing the Rogers BBC Studio Monitors many years ago. I knew it was based on the LS3/6 but with an additional tweeter. It was very good and at the time I think I preferred it to the Spendor BC1, however I could afford neither.

Your comments regarding the Rogers LS2 and LS7 vis-a-vis the LS3/5a are very interesting. First of all let me say that the Chartwell's LS3/5a are considered to be the best of the various versions that were licensed. I am looking for a small bookshelf sized set of spreakers to use with my TV. I had either the Rodgers LS7 or LS3/5a in mind - looks like I will have to track down a reasonably priced pair of 3/5a s after all! At the moment I am using a pair of Eltax 1621 speakers (a three unit ported design) that I picked up for virtually nothing and which work very well, so there is no great rush to change them; however a pair of 3/5a s would be nice. I have the opportunity to get a pair of B&W DM2s cheap, and would appreciate your opinion on the use of these for TV use.

Again thanks for the write up.

Regards
Barry

PS Where do you keep all those speakers of yours?

I think all but the very early BC1's and LS3/6's had a supertweeter. A reasonable priced pair of LS3/5a, difficult. Perhaps consider the JR149, but they are getting rediculous in price.

I hate to go on about it but those JPW Gold Monitors, but they are brilliant, especially as they go for peanuts on e bay. The Mini Monitors are very good as well, same speakers but cheaper tweeters (still good as Audax). The bas/ mids in both are Peerless, so should not be bad. The Mini Monitors are available with shielded magnets which is a bonus.

As for DM2's I like thenm very much (DM2a almost identical except HF1300 is level is adjustable). Not really an advantage the DM2 is about right anyway.

I have several pairs of DM2 and DM2a.

I trust that they will be far away from the TV avoid magnetic interference.

Not familiar with the Eltax, but they generally look good value.

THe JPW Mini Monitors and Gold Monitors are around LS3/5a size (small).

[Barry]

Hi Spendorman,

Thanks for that. The DM2s I have in mind are the 2a versions. The person who is selling them has recently replaced them with Spendor s9e (?)

Will check out the JPW speakers.

Regards
Barry

[spendorman]

Worth trying the DM2a's watch out for blown supertweeters. They should measure 23 Ohms DC resistance.

By the way, JPW did quite a lot of speakers for the BBC.

Room for more! speaker space is very limited here now!!

[DSJR]

Good grief, this is turning into an extension of the yahoo Spendor group...

Didn't the BC1 and siblings use the larger magnet version of the HF1300? Speakers like the baby Celestions (Ditton 15's, 25's County's etc) used a small magnet version I believe.

That HF1300 does have a wonderful sound in its narow passband, but there's a nasty at 3.5KHz approx and a peak at 14KHz that can cause trouble in some speakers.

According to Spencer Hughes (r.i.p.) not many LS3/6's were ultimately sold to the BBC or even made IIRC. The BC1 seemed to be the most acceptable one, either for costs, or some other reason. Old 3/6's, Rogers Exports and Spendors with the "white" surround to the bass cones will certainly be shagged by now, as the surround material returns to its flat sheet state and stops working as it should. Terry Miles (who I believe works hard at Spendor still) can re-build BC1 drivers, but I don't know about the others. Mike O'Brien (O'Brien HiFi in Wimbledon) may be able to offer pointers as he "was" Swisstone for a good few years.

We sold many LS7's (Chartwell PM310) at the time and my remaining memory of them was a full toned but tuneful bass and a spiky treble, which tamed over ten or more years of use. The LS7T was atrocious when new, but again, the tweeter bedded in eventually.

Regarding the 3/5A's, Chartwell supplied a pair to Angus MacKenzie for the 'Chioce speaker book in 1976 and he loved them. Audiomaster submitted a pair and they weren't liked as much. Twenty odd years later, when 'News did an appreciation of all the versions of this speaker, the Audiomasters came out better than the Chartwells they had. It just depends on the samples you have, as the spec allowed for such differences.

3/5A licencees varied in quality too. I can guarantee that Audiomaster (Robin Marshall) took huge care to get each one as right as possible, often taking them twice or more to Hirst Research centre to be calibrated and re-calibrated. I don't believe Rogers were as good in later years. if you blew a bass unit, they'd send out a straight B110 and you'd hope for the best. I can say that of the later ones, Harbeth were fastidious in their unique way and apparently they do their best to help 3/5A owners where possible.

I can also say that the BBC themselves used to have absolutely "centre-line" spec ones (every single sample was the same) and these had XLR sockets on the back. Occasionally, a few pairs were sold retail, but not often..

[spendorman]

Ah, yes Celestion Ditton 10, 15, County and probably others used a very small magnet version of the Celestion HF1300. The Spendor BC1, BC2 and I think the BC3 along with B&W DM1, DM2, DM4 (and many othe speakers assemblers) used a larger magnet version.

The B&W DM3 used a Celestion HF1400 and that is a 1300 with a magnet that looks very much like the BC1 etc. 1300 magnet, but is about 1/4" deeper. It is easy to miss this.

The HF1400 was also used on one of the BBC monitors (can't remember which) but its not the LS3/6 (I think!!).

The HF1400 must be a very rare beast. I certainly have four of them (two pairs of DM3's)

Yes, the curse of the white surround. Similar problems with early B&W DM4 bass/ mids and early Audax Bextrene cone bass/ mids.