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Thread: Paradise Phonostage - REVIEW

  1. #21
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 6,722
    I'm AnDreW.

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    Looking forward to getting the updated paradise, look out for a review.
    SS CD Teac VRDS25X(Mega Modded) DAC Caiman SEG+Anker PSU DECK 1210 Mat Analouge Studio Crystal Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony arm Board Feet Isonoe PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/Jaeger(low-impedance) connector/3 StageRegs/Recapped PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MCOrtofon Cadenza Black CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

    Valve PRECroft Epoch(Mega Modded) AMP Sondex S100 SPEAKERS Tannoy 15"MG+RFC Warwick cabs+ Reference XO DECK Garrard301 MatTeunto GunMetal Bearing SPH PlinthMoldovan Arm SME 3012(Ikeda Ag wired) PSUPheonix PSU+Tachomter MCAg Meister SPU/DECCA Maroon CABLESArm Yannis 420.5 Litz+ Speaker3mm2Ag IC Oyaide FTVS-510 AgWBT 0110Ag Phonostage4Box Paradise


  2. #22
    Join Date: Aug 2012

    Location: Hartlepool UK

    Posts: 1,264
    I'm Alan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Yes we did.
    Thanks for the kind comments guys

    It was this one you heard

    nebp 4-4 by 337alant, on Flickr

    Alan
    Turntable - Garrard 401/Jelco 750L/Ortofon Kontrapunkt B, Pioneer PLC 590, SME 3009/2 , Denon DL103R - DIY Paradise Phono stage - Reel 2 Reel Studer A810, Otari MX55,Tascam BR20 - Digital HTPC / Young Dac - Preamp - DIY B4, 821, Power Amp's DIY Voyager Mono Block, Speakers Tannoy precision 6.4 / Wilmslow Kit Volt BM220.8 / Scanspeak D2905/9500

  3. #23
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 6,722
    I'm AnDreW.

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    The updated version of my paradise has been returned. Its had about 15 hours usage so far, I'll probably add another 35 making a grand total of 50 before it goes up for review. Watch this space!
    SS CD Teac VRDS25X(Mega Modded) DAC Caiman SEG+Anker PSU DECK 1210 Mat Analouge Studio Crystal Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony arm Board Feet Isonoe PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/Jaeger(low-impedance) connector/3 StageRegs/Recapped PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MCOrtofon Cadenza Black CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

    Valve PRECroft Epoch(Mega Modded) AMP Sondex S100 SPEAKERS Tannoy 15"MG+RFC Warwick cabs+ Reference XO DECK Garrard301 MatTeunto GunMetal Bearing SPH PlinthMoldovan Arm SME 3012(Ikeda Ag wired) PSUPheonix PSU+Tachomter MCAg Meister SPU/DECCA Maroon CABLESArm Yannis 420.5 Litz+ Speaker3mm2Ag IC Oyaide FTVS-510 AgWBT 0110Ag Phonostage4Box Paradise


  4. #24
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 6,722
    I'm AnDreW.

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    Burning the phonostage in for a few more hours and getting my new vinyl review list organised.
    SS CD Teac VRDS25X(Mega Modded) DAC Caiman SEG+Anker PSU DECK 1210 Mat Analouge Studio Crystal Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony arm Board Feet Isonoe PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/Jaeger(low-impedance) connector/3 StageRegs/Recapped PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MCOrtofon Cadenza Black CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

    Valve PRECroft Epoch(Mega Modded) AMP Sondex S100 SPEAKERS Tannoy 15"MG+RFC Warwick cabs+ Reference XO DECK Garrard301 MatTeunto GunMetal Bearing SPH PlinthMoldovan Arm SME 3012(Ikeda Ag wired) PSUPheonix PSU+Tachomter MCAg Meister SPU/DECCA Maroon CABLESArm Yannis 420.5 Litz+ Speaker3mm2Ag IC Oyaide FTVS-510 AgWBT 0110Ag Phonostage4Box Paradise


  5. #25
    Join Date: Mar 2010

    Location: Sheffield

    Posts: 2,501
    I'm Simon.

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    I'm all ears.
    Kuzma Stabi/S 12", (LP12-bastard) DC motor and optical tacho psu, Benz LP, Paradise (phonostage). MB-Pro, Brooklyn dac and psu, Bruno Putzeys balanced pre, mod86p dual mono amps, Yamaha NS1000m

  6. #26
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 6,722
    I'm AnDreW.

    Default

    Easy tiger still plonking a few more hours onto the paradise. Found a couple of neat torture tracks for later this week. Stay tooned.
    SS CD Teac VRDS25X(Mega Modded) DAC Caiman SEG+Anker PSU DECK 1210 Mat Analouge Studio Crystal Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony arm Board Feet Isonoe PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/Jaeger(low-impedance) connector/3 StageRegs/Recapped PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MCOrtofon Cadenza Black CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

    Valve PRECroft Epoch(Mega Modded) AMP Sondex S100 SPEAKERS Tannoy 15"MG+RFC Warwick cabs+ Reference XO DECK Garrard301 MatTeunto GunMetal Bearing SPH PlinthMoldovan Arm SME 3012(Ikeda Ag wired) PSUPheonix PSU+Tachomter MCAg Meister SPU/DECCA Maroon CABLESArm Yannis 420.5 Litz+ Speaker3mm2Ag IC Oyaide FTVS-510 AgWBT 0110Ag Phonostage4Box Paradise


  7. #27
    Join Date: Oct 2012

    Location: Napier, New Zealand

    Posts: 1,534
    I'm Andrei.

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    For burn-in do you have to keep playing LPs or can you input an attenuated digital source?
    [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]Sources:[/B] [B]1[/B][/COLOR] PC & Wyred4Sound DAC-2 DSDse   [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]2[/B][/COLOR] Oppo BDP105   [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]3[/B][/COLOR] Technics SL·1210 MK5 (Jelco 750D · Benz Wood).    [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]Speaker Cable[/B][/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Nordost Frey.[/COLOR]    [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]Interconnects [/B][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000]Oyaide[/COLOR][COLOR=black] & [/COLOR][COLOR=#000000]Geisha [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Silver.
    [/COLOR][B][COLOR=#a52a2a]Phono Stage [/COLOR][/B][COLOR=black]Fosgate Signature V2. [/COLOR]   [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]Preamp [/B][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000]Ayon Eris[/COLOR][COLOR=black]. [/COLOR]   [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]Power Amp[/B][/COLOR] [COLOR=Black]ATC P1. [/COLOR]  ​ [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]Speakers[/B][/COLOR] Triangle Magellan Cello.     [COLOR=#A9A9A9]Oh Sting, where is thy death?[/COLOR]

  8. #28
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 6,722
    I'm AnDreW.

    Default

    I've just been playing lp's through the valve setup, it's dual functionality the phonostage gets burned in I get to chill
    SS CD Teac VRDS25X(Mega Modded) DAC Caiman SEG+Anker PSU DECK 1210 Mat Analouge Studio Crystal Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony arm Board Feet Isonoe PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/Jaeger(low-impedance) connector/3 StageRegs/Recapped PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MCOrtofon Cadenza Black CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

    Valve PRECroft Epoch(Mega Modded) AMP Sondex S100 SPEAKERS Tannoy 15"MG+RFC Warwick cabs+ Reference XO DECK Garrard301 MatTeunto GunMetal Bearing SPH PlinthMoldovan Arm SME 3012(Ikeda Ag wired) PSUPheonix PSU+Tachomter MCAg Meister SPU/DECCA Maroon CABLESArm Yannis 420.5 Litz+ Speaker3mm2Ag IC Oyaide FTVS-510 AgWBT 0110Ag Phonostage4Box Paradise


  9. #29
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 6,722
    I'm AnDreW.

    Default

    Been promising this for a while. So here is part one of the review. I have reviewed lots of new stuff on the Sugden Phonostage+Ortonfon SUT combo.

    AGAIN NO APOLOGIES FOR ERRORS, GRAMMER, SPELLING, etc.

    Paradise Phonostage - Four Box Version
    --------------------------------------

    This is perhaps not a fair review as my system has changed a little since I wrote my origin review. The only two small changes to my deck are the
    replacement armboard and a new platter mat. I replaced a Mike New solid copper tonearm board for a Magna Audio ebony armboard and my 5mm 1210 Acromat has been replaced with a Resomat. Apart from these two small changes the vinyl front end in my reference system has not changed. I believe I know the new sonic signature of my deck and I'm happy to pass comments on the differences bewteen my new Paradise phonostage and my current Sugden + Ortofon SUT.

    So whats new in the Paradsie Phonostage ?

    Well my first review was based around a two boxed version. My four boxed version is markedly different from the version which I borrowed from Simon
    for starters, the main differences are :-


    1. Silver Audio Note Female RCA's
    2. No IEC's
    3. Belden 19364 power cable used.
    4. Cartridge matching has been improved to 0.3mv for output with my Ortofon Cadenza black and my Ortofon silver meister SPU.
    5. Improved Op Amps
    6. The Paradise is now quiter by approx 3db compared to having a low hum in my last design
    7. The Calvin boards have been installed

    A quick email to Simon (of the AOS Parish) revealed just what he'd done to the Paradise phonostage. Here's his reply.


    "I replaced OPA134 that controls the servo with OPA627. These are more temperature stable op-amps with a lower DC offset . Basically they have 1/10th of the DC drift of the op-amps they replace which improves the DC offset correction ability of the servo 10x. I replaced the cartridge loading resistor, that was soldered to the board, with a high pressure push-fit arrangement that allows you to swap between any standard 0.8mm legged resistors, Vishay foils and Naked Charcrofts etc etc.

    The output stage which was a 'relatively' modest affair has been replaced with a much higher quality output buffer. It has far greater driving ability and much greater load in-variance. It also has about another 20db of PSRR which means it is has even better signal to noise performance. It's built around cascaded Jfets, matched in your case to better than 1% across both channels. All the new connections are wired up with solid silver.

    In the PSU I removed the 4 transformers that provide the power to the two channels. Two transformers are used in each channel and fed across a pair of common mode chokes before going into a hefty CLCR filter stage. The original transformers had less than perfect physical noise performance, noisy windings made them vibrate and they were audible when switched on from more than a couple of feet away. These were removed and replaced with new units from a different batch. They have been soldered to the boards by their legs but are not screwed to the boards. The underside of the pcb is damped with a Dense EVA foam pad and each pair of transformers has an identical pad bonded across their upper surfaces to help kill any noise."


    Just to recap this is what I thought of both phonostages on my first review



    SUGDEN

    loudness - Silent to high levels but the Paradise is better
    Presentation - Visceral, PRaT in abundance (betters the Paradise)
    Microdetail - Matches the Paradise but lacking with some recordings.
    Bass - Cavernous, textured, timbre, outshines the Paradise
    Electric Guitar - Lightening fast, sledgehammer impact, raw, visceral
    Vocals - Equal to Paradise (initimate, detailed, excellent timbre)
    Jazz - Equal to Paradise in 99% of things but the paradise just seems to a better jazz transcriptor.
    Classical - Equal to the paradise, better when extra welly needed.
    Soundstage - Wide, Tight, coherent, vocalists pin pointed centrally,forensically disects and presents whatevers on the vinyl.Can sound a little veiled with microdetail

    retrival.


    PARADISE

    Loudness Silent in operation at higher volumes than the Sugden combo

    Presentation Laidback, musical, great PRaT (Sudgen combo better)

    Microdetail The Sugdens+SUT equal and in some instances it's superior

    Bass Light, less depth not as textured, not as good as the Sugden+SUT

    Electric Guitar Blunted, lacking impact, less visceral

    Vocals Equal to the Sugen+SUT (intimate, detailed, excellent timbre)

    Jazz Xylophones, double bass, edges to piano notes, brush work
    on drums all excellent. The microdetail just aces the paradise


    Classical Lacking in some of the more bombastic recordings. Superb
    with cello, and violin work. Disappoints when "oommpph" needed


    I tried to replicate similar listening session through the review so I did the following

    1. My main reference system was allowed to "warm up" 5 minutes before listening began.
    2. Each record played was cleaned on my Mk2 Moth RCM. Each side was cleaned with the same record cleaning fluid and each sided recieved a 60 second clean.
    3. New vinyl was used with each record recieving less than 5-10 plays per side.
    4. I made sure my reclining chair was in the same poisition during each listen.
    5. New records where chosen to try and limit bias and eliminate contradictory opinions from my first review.
    6. Records where chosen where I have an intimate knowledge of the recording and where it would be easy for me to spot difference in sonic presentation.
    7. A PS Audio P10 mains regeneration system was used throughout all listening allowing a very clean power supply of 242V with <0.1% THD.


    First Impressions
    -----------------

    Well I had new transformers replaced in the paradise and I instantly noticed next to no noise and the very slight hum I hear is completely lost when
    playing vinyl. I had quite a noticable hum before the latest batch of upgrades and this spoiled the listening experience but now I'm much happier and pleased
    with the latest PSU's.

    **********************
    *SUGDEN + Ortofon SUT*
    **********************

    Thrash Metal
    ------------
    I choose Overkill - White Devil Armoury (2014 1st Pressing). I have been a big fan of this band for decades and these guys have stuck to their roots. I selected this album test assess how good the Sugden + SUT setup could handle the excesses of thrash metal drumming where some drummers can go as high as 1200BPM, yeah thats right 1200BPM! I wasn't interested in vocals, power double bass solo's, or extravagent guitar solo's. The Sugden+SUT setup was a class act in this exercise and it showed just how agile it was. It easily conveyed the drums of Ron Lipnicki I was presented with a very fast, precise, presentation that never missed a beat.


    Blues Rock
    ----------
    I normally use Janice Joplin to assess the intimacy of female vocals usually using Mercedes Benz as my reference track. This time I decided I wanted something a little different and I decided to use Summertime from the Cheap Thrills album, this pressing was the 2011 repressing. The track opens with some extremely delicate gutar solo, bass, gently burbling away in the background. Janis's vocals appears strained and husky slightly off left in the soundstage. The recording is not as intimate as Mercedes benz but the quality of the bass and drums centralised in the phonostage and the fuzz guitar to the left of the soundstage are excellently captured. Plenty of seperation bewteen instruments and the SUG+SUT combo present a wide, clean, soundstage. Excellent stuff. The track gets quite complex midway through with a cocophony of instruments and then a sudden change in time signature. Lesser kit have massacred this bit of the track but not the SUG+SUT combo. I'm impressed.

    Power Vocals
    ------------
    A new test for the SUG+SUT combo. This time I wanted to assess male power vocals. There are only really two people that I rate in this genre, both are British and both are in Heavy Metal bands. Bruce Dickinson in Iron Maiden and Rob Halford from Judas Priest. Dickinson possesses a wide vocal range which he uses to produce a quasi-operatic tenor presentation. Dickinson is one of the pioneers of the operatic vocal style later to be adopted by power metal vocalists. Rob Halford on the other hand is considered one of the most consistently powerful singers in rock possessing a wide vocal range, and is particularly known for his trademark high-pitched, operatic, soaring screams. I kicked off with Halford. I decided to listen to the Sad Wings of Destiny Album (2014 repress). The song Ripper shows all of Halford's trademark traits. Ths SUG/SUT captured Halford excellently and portrayed a man wailing like a banshee. You really get the impression on this recording that Halford couldn't sing any higher. Halford sat slap bang in the middle of the soundstage, standing in front of me with his mic. The song starts quite tame and builds as Halford describes his activities as Jack the Ripper, halfway through Halford reminds you never to turn your back on the ripper in a high operatic power chord. Again Excellent. The SUG+SUT is again bloody fantastic at getting Halford in the soundstage. Now switching to Dickinson, blimey, where do we start? I really had to think long and hard about this one, my normal foyle is either Powerslave or Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner. Today I decided upon the Flight of Icarus from Piece of Mindthis is 3'46 probably the shortest Maiden track ever!!?? A tale about Icarus flying near the sun. Dickinson flings is operatic power vocals around again the SUG+SUTcombo plonked him centre stage. TBH is track does meander for a while but the last 30 seconds really show what Dickinson can do and I believe this has to be the best recorded power vocal this bloke has ever done. Long, powerful, lung screeching stuff. This really is a man that has deciced he is going to do his best Ian Gillan/Pavarotti's power vocal. And I think he pulls it off. You have to listen to it to understand what I'm waffling on about.


    Jazz
    ----
    I listened to the Linn Records recording of Martin Williams "Dont Fret" from 1990. The SUG+SUT combo produced a laid back presentation of Martin Williams fret work on this recording. Each note could be clearly heard and seperated from the other instruments on all the tracks of this recording. His guitar was crystal clear and the other musicians could be easily placed and seperated in the soundstage. Once again the main artist was slap bang in the centre of the recording with other artists slightly recessed back in the soundstage so you got the feeling of Martin Williams sitting slightly forward of the other artists in this recording. Soundstage wasn't very wide and sat within the perimeter of my two speakers. The second piece of Jazz I tested was John Coltranes "Stardust" from 1963. This recording portrayed Coltrane just left of centre. I could discern his phrasing of each note as he played. Again the SUG+SUT did that thing of producing large spaces between the musicians with Coltrane slightly left of centre, paino central, double bass off right and drums centre stage. Jimmy Cobb's brush work on the drums was subtle and delicate whilst the timbre and note structure could easily be heard and followed over the shimmering cymbals of the drums. This has to be one of the best Coltrane recordings I have heard on my big ATC's, they did an extremely good impression of a pair of Horn loaded speakers!

    Prog
    ----
    Yep, my old favourites Dream Theater had the honour of doing Prog on the SUG+SUT combo. I decided to choose the 13m52s monster that is "The Glass Prison" from the 6 Degrees of Inner Turbulance album. The track opens to the chiming of a bell, this impressed me as I could easily follow the decay as the chime faded into the ether. Mike Pourtnoy is famous for his massive double bass drum onslaughts, this track was no different and it really hammered home, he was placed rock solid central soundstage, a massive battering ram for what was about the follow. Jon Petrucci's guitar work was as intricate, clinical, forensic and technical as ever. Once again I could easily follow and pick out ever note that he fired out across the soundstage. I was a little sad to hear that John Myungs bass got lost in the mix. Instruments could be easily followed despite the sheer complexity of this piece (and cerebral exertion) of music. Additionally, despite the frenetic changes to time signatures the SUG&SUT combo could not be wrong footed.


    STAY TUNED FOR PT2 WHEN THE PARADISE GET PLONKED INTO MY REFERENCE SYSTEM!
    SS CD Teac VRDS25X(Mega Modded) DAC Caiman SEG+Anker PSU DECK 1210 Mat Analouge Studio Crystal Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony arm Board Feet Isonoe PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/Jaeger(low-impedance) connector/3 StageRegs/Recapped PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MCOrtofon Cadenza Black CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

    Valve PRECroft Epoch(Mega Modded) AMP Sondex S100 SPEAKERS Tannoy 15"MG+RFC Warwick cabs+ Reference XO DECK Garrard301 MatTeunto GunMetal Bearing SPH PlinthMoldovan Arm SME 3012(Ikeda Ag wired) PSUPheonix PSU+Tachomter MCAg Meister SPU/DECCA Maroon CABLESArm Yannis 420.5 Litz+ Speaker3mm2Ag IC Oyaide FTVS-510 AgWBT 0110Ag Phonostage4Box Paradise


  10. #30
    Join Date: Mar 2010

    Location: Sheffield

    Posts: 2,501
    I'm Simon.

    Default

    Andy, you should probably swap the cartridge loading resistors over to something more suitable for the SPU. Something in the 5-10 ohm range. I've got nothing that low and yours is currently set for 121ohm. It makes a big difference.
    Kuzma Stabi/S 12", (LP12-bastard) DC motor and optical tacho psu, Benz LP, Paradise (phonostage). MB-Pro, Brooklyn dac and psu, Bruno Putzeys balanced pre, mod86p dual mono amps, Yamaha NS1000m

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