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Thread: TT motor with guts?

  1. #1
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: Sunny (occasionally) Devon

    Posts: 1,713
    I'm Shane.

    Default TT motor with guts?

    I have the beginnings of an idea in the back of my mind to build another idler turntable, but so far I've not been able to find a suitable motor.

    Turntable motors generally come in four types: Direct drive, which isn't where I want to go; tiny gutless AC synchronous motors as used by Linn, Thorens, Rega etc (yeah, OK, me too in the TT2); tiny slightly less gutless DC as used by Origin Live etc; and the great big beefy motors used by the likes of Garrard or Lenco which is what I'm looking for, but which no-one's used for turntables for the last 40 years.

    These motors are powerful, and have a large rotor rotating at relatively high speed which therefore stores a lot of energy, and I'm convinced this is a major part of the reason why the Garrards and Lencos have that wonderful solid relentless feel to the sound. Trouble is, I can't find anyone using that sort of motor for other purposes today that could be adapted. The nearest I can find are a couple of ranges of pancake motors, but these are either cheap and nasty Chinese rubbish, or German and horrendously expensive. The other possibility is the external rotor brushless motors used by R/C modellers (which have the added advantage of looking very sexy) but involve some serious electronics to control speed and provide the right waveforms for smooth running.

    Anyone know of any alternatives? My last attempt used tghe motor from an Akai 4000DS reel-to-reel which was fabulous, but they're not that aesy to get hold of. I need somthing that could be supplied in small numbers in the unlikely event that I take this any further than a DIY home-build project. (Retirement looms. I'm going to need something to do, so who knows...).
    Time flies like an arrow.
    Fruit flies like a banana.

  2. #2
    Join Date: Nov 2013

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 4,243
    I'm Andr'e.

    Default

    What about a Studer motors from a Revox 'A/B77' they should be plentifull maybe £40 ish..

  3. #3
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,779
    I'm Martin.

    Default

    You could buy up old Garrards and Lencos and re-use the motors. Are the motors in the cheaper Garrards the same as in the 301 and 401?

    Or you could use the German motors you mention. How expensive are they? Folk seem to be prepared to pay thousands for turntables that use, as you say, the 'gutless' AC motors.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  4. #4
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: South West England

    Posts: 958
    I'm Guy.

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    The papst motors used in Revox r2r are asynchronous but used with an eddy current brake can give a lovely smooth powerful drive

  5. #5
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: Sunny (occasionally) Devon

    Posts: 1,713
    I'm Shane.

    Default

    I like the idea of old R - R motors (especially the Revox, beefy and handsome) for a one-off hobby project but I'd also like to find something that's still in production, just in case it becomes a viable project. I just have a feeling that there's something out there suitable that's made in quantity for a specific purpose that would be suitable, but I can't think what it is!
    Time flies like an arrow.
    Fruit flies like a banana.

  6. #6
    Audio Al is offline Pishanto Specialist & Super-Daftee
    Join Date: May 2012

    Location: Dagenham Essex

    Posts: 11,215
    I'm Allen.

    Default

    The Dual 1219 has a monster motor fitted

    Not sure if its the type you are after

    If it is let me know and I will take some photos of the units I have and post them on the forum
    [

  7. #7
    Join Date: Nov 2013

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 4,243
    I'm Andr'e.

    Default

    I think it's mad to assume you could build a viable product using a new monster motor, the cost would be well mad imho.. It would have to be an old motor, be a shame to break R+R machines up for the motors hence the reason i mentioned the German motor as there seems to be plenty of them knocking about. however if it's an old motor you could not sell the product as a new product..

  8. #8
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: Sunny (occasionally) Devon

    Posts: 1,713
    I'm Shane.

    Default

    You're probably right Andre, but I've never considered potential madness to be a good reason not to play with ideas! As you say, it seems inherently wrong to break up perfectly good old equipment, but if it was affordable in the 60s and 70s to produce good quality motors in the 20w - 40w range, why shouldn't it be now?

    On thing I have just come across is these people http://www.printedmotorworks.com/about-pmw/ . Ticks a lot of boxes, ie high torque, zero cogging etc, but very low rotational inertia seems instinctively wrong for a turntable. Also quite intrigued by the powered suitcase wheel here http://www.printedmotorworks.com/about-pmw/ . How cool would a modified version of that look?
    Time flies like an arrow.
    Fruit flies like a banana.

  9. #9
    Join Date: Oct 2011

    Location: Charente, France

    Posts: 3,531
    I'm Nodrog.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shane View Post
    it seems inherently wrong to break up perfectly good old equipment,
    This is a real problem. Several times now I have had a cunning plan ruined by not being able to take my hatchet to old equipment. A recent example being the Pioneer PL112D I bought cheap to nick the arm from. It arrived totally immaculate and looked as though it had never been used, just stored in a loft somewhere. Even the lid is unmarked. I just couldn't do it so I now have yet another TT in one of the bedroom systems. I suppose there must be a really bashed up example somewhere with a working motor.

    Good luck with the project, sounds interesting to someone that enjoys playing

  10. #10
    Join Date: Aug 2012

    Location: Hartlepool UK

    Posts: 1,640
    I'm Alan.

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    Turntable - Garrard 401/Jelco 750L/Ortofon Kontrapunkt B, Pioneer PLC 590, Micro Sieki MA505 , Denon DL103R - DIY Paradise Phono stage - Reel 2 Reel Studer A810, Otari MX55,Tascam BR20, Revox A77, B77, PR99, TEAC X1000 & 3440, Digital HTPC / Young Dac - Preamp - DIY B4, 821, Power Amp's DIY Avondale NCC300 Mono Block, Speakers Wilmslow Kit Volt BM220.8 / Scanspeak D2905/9500

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