Problem solved - always trust your ears (backed up by a stylus pressure gauge)

[YNWaN]

So you don't pretend to know one end of an arm from the other but you are happy to disparage the remarks of those that do - for an accountant you don't half present yourself as a marketing man!

[PaulStewart]

So you don't pretend to know one end of an arm from the other but you are happy to disparage the remarks of those that do - for an accountant you don't half present yourself as a marketing man!

[Oldpinkman]

So you don't pretend to know one end of an arm from the other but you are happy to disparage the remarks of those that do - for an accountant you don't half present yourself as a marketing man!

Along with barry I noted that we are unable to understand your comment. I hazarded an interpretation in language which I could havemade sense of. You neither clarified the point for barry nor offerered a correct interpretation for me but made a defensive patronising comment. As I noted, whatever your point might have been, regardless that its purpose seems something other than to offer usable help or advice, it was irrelevant, since the device is working just fine, allowing me to enjoy music from a record player better than i ever have before. As gordon points out - that is what really matters.

Thank you for taking the time to comment on my thread, and I am sorry I was unable to understand your cleverness.

[Oldpinkman]

Although the spring conceptually applies a force to one side relative to the other, in a proportional sense it actually achieves this by applying a separate force (it does not literally apply transference of mass) that is proportional to the whole but not to the mass either side of the fulcrum. Therefore, although applied force may be proportionally linear for one mass relative to another, it will not be if the masses on either side alter - this would only be true if the spring altered strength relative to the altered masses it was balancing/acting against.

OK Mark

Since this obviously matters to you a lot - I checked with Arthur, who in turn checked with a spring manufacturer. You are wrong. My seesaw analogy was correct. The only relevant forces in a balanced fulcrum are the extension of the spring and the distance from the fulcrum. The mass of the balanced arm is irrelevant in all cases. A force is a force.

It was suggested I might use a less provocative analogy related to hifi. If you take an arm which is balanced and apply a 2 gram weight 10 inches from the fulcrum, at that point there will be a down force of 2 grams. If you attach a spring which balances that weight back (so the arm is again level) that spring will extend by a fixed amount. The force will always be 2 grams. The extension of the spring will always be the same. It doesn't matter whether the balanced arm is made of lead or balsa wood, if it is first balanced and a 2 gram weight attached at 10 inches the down force at that point will always be 2 grams. And the extension of the spring required to balance it will always be the same length. The same force. The issues relevant are distance from fulcrum and tension of spring. Mass of the balanced tube is not relevant. Can I make it any clearer for you? If I did tax returns like that I would soon be unable to get PI cover

But like I said. It doesn't matter that you were wrong. What matters is that the quite exceptional arm which has the spring we were discussing, is sounding magnificent with the Technics cartridge I picked up from Arizona, at whatever force is being applied, and I am enjoying listening to music on it. I got lucky I guess.

[Marco]

Guys, I don't like the tone of some of the remarks here. Let's drop the sarcastic/patronising element in your responses and remember that this is a friendly forum, where it is a prerequisite that we treat each other with due respect at all times.

Therefore, let's ensure for the remainder of the discussion, that the ball is played and not the man, as it were. Cheers!

Marco.

[Beobloke]

It is not impossible that the counterweight shifted in transit.

Never leave a counterweight on in transit -bad things will happen!

this is a friendly forum, where it is a prerequisite that we treat each other with due respect at all times.

Quite right. Although I am reminded of a quote from Naked Gun -

"I'm sure that we can handle this situation maturely, just like the responsible adults that we are. Isn't that right, Mr... Poopy Pants?"

[Marco]

Marco.

[Oldpinkman]

Never leave a counterweight on in transit -bad things will happen!

I know. In my youff I travelled up and down to uni with an arm mounted and counterweight attached (mind it was only a Linn LVV) and never gave it a second thought. Last time I moved the prototype FXR Arthur removed the counterweight to prevent bearing damage. This time we packed it with foam, because I wanted to transport his set-up. It may have shifted, and I guess , with the benefit of hindsight, it was VTA (which I think he got wrong) and cartridge protractor stuff, which I wanted him to do, not tracking force, and they wouldn't have been affected by removing the counterweight. I should have rezeroed and balanced and set the force to his setting.

We'll never know now! The happy news is it is sounding sooooo good

[Oldpinkman]

Well the new toy has arrived. Mr K was typically scathing about digital scales when I visited last week (he has several sets) pointing out that they are inconsistent. He weighed a headshell cueing arm 4 times and got 4 different weights. I was accordingly fairly dubious of the chinese scales. However, for all they weigh 500g test weight 500g, but then report -0.14 g when you remove it, if you reset the Tare a few times, it eventually settles to about +or-0.05g and surely that is accurate enough for a cartridge.

AK and I also discussed the effect of tracking force on cartridge sound (particularly in the context of the Technics cartridges) and agreed it was important to get it right, especially trying to minimise the "soft treble" of these cartridges. We now both have a U205 as well as an epc310 MC and both have new stylus assemblies on order, and both love the cartridges but...

Anyway - my EPC310 was I believed set at 1.1g. Tracking force spec is 1.0-1.5, recommended 1.25. I repeat - by ear, it was set at what by ortofon balance I believed to be a lighter than recommended 1.1g. Best I could measure it with my new toy it was 1.27g. Blow me!