Linn 'fanbois': blinkered, deluded, brainwashed or just deaf?

[Marco]

I've just read this on pfm and nearly shat myself laughing:

http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/s...634#post838634

Note in particular posts #437, #438 and #439...

a planar 2 destroyed them [Technics SP10s]

And this 'pearl of wisdom' from the same blinkered/deaf/deluded/brainwashed (delete as appropriate) fanboi:

Same here...one of my most fun adventures was a P2 against a Goldmund Reference at a client's home. Again, no need to drag out the Fruitbox.

Oh FFS, what planet are these people on? I honestly don't know whether to laugh, cry, or make an appointment at the doctor for them to have their ears syringed!

In fact, on reflection, perhaps a psychiatry appointment is more appropriate?

Marco.

[John]

Perhaps they live in some kind of parrell universe

[Marco]

Perhaps indeed, John!

Could someone please explain to me how a flimsy motor unit with a puny, 'cheap-as-chips' power supply, driven by an elastic band and housed in a block of MDF, warbling and wavering all over the place in terms of speed stability (and hence pitch) when playing music, could be anything else but fatally flawed and fundamentally broken?

I'm referring here to the P2, not the LP12. The latter is bad enough, but the former makes the latter sound 'accurate'! The P2 (or 3) is a heavily-compromised toy in comparison to an SP10, nothing more.

When will these people learn that what they like about LP12s or entry-level Regas is simply the way that they colour the sound (and hence music played)? There's nothing wrong with that, but it is most certainly not real, or 'tuneful'.

I guess that people could call some of us here 'Techy fanbois'... But speaking for myself, the only reason that I use a Sound Hi-fi-modified SL-1210 is because (aside from an SP10 or EMT) it's the only T/T I've heard *so far* which imposes as little signature as possible on music reproduced: effectively, you hear the 'message', not the overwhelming sonic signature of the 'messenger'.

I couldn't give a monkey's bollocks about anything else, and I'm sure that the Pioneer and Denon D/Ds of this world are just as adept at the above, too. I'm not seeking a certain 'sound' - I just want to hear what's actually on the record (as far as is possible).

Surely that's the goal as far as any turntable is concerned? Why do some people need to have an artificial 'flavour' superimposed onto their music to find it enjoyable?

Marco.

[DaveK]

Live and let live - the beauty is in the ear of the beholder - one man's meat is another man's poison - I hate to see opinions which are likely to polarise opinion - what about the people who have just bought a Rega TT?
Does this smack of elitism??
I have just taken an option on a Pro-Ject Debut 3 - what's your opinion on that, just out of interest.

[REM]

It's because of threads like that I dont bother posting on PFM and other fora. What would be the point, 500 posts and counting, who the hell is going to take the least bit of notice of anything that anyone else had to say?
Surely it's the internet equivalent of a scratched record/blip/record/blip/record...
going on and on till someone turns it off.
At least here the arguments are more to the point and a darn sight more amusing

Cheers
Ralph

[Marco]

Hi Dave,

I have no problem with "live and let live" and people's (honest) differing opinions on genuinely comparable equipment, but when people talk complete rubbish like that simply to affirm their dogmatic beliefs and convince themselves that they're right - and most importantly - deliberately mislead the uninitiated, it is unforgivable. It's nonsense like that which helps perpetrate the age-old myths that exist in British high-end hi-fi.

It's also quite obvious, as ex-Linn dealers, that these people have an agenda!!

Oh, and to answer your question, I'd rather have the Pro-Ject than a Rega P2

In fact, I'd rather have a stock SL-1200/1210, second-hand or otherwise, (with a few small and inexpensive tweaks), or a Lenco, than either of them, simply because the sonic (and musical) potential is far greater, and hence also SPPV (sound-per-pound value)

Marco.

[Marco]

Ralph,

I enjoy some of the discussions on pfm, but when I read that deluded fantasy tale I nearly spat out my dinner!!!

Therefore I just had to 'address' the issue in the hope that anyone reading both forums (which is often the case) would see this thread and have access to 'the other side of the coin', so to speak.

It's important that people aren't put off buying SP10s or modified SL-1210s as a result of being influenced by someone's blinkered agenda!

Marco.

[DSJR]

I'm not going to post here what I've posted there [edit - well I have, in a nutshell], but as many popular 1970's LP's are sh*t cuts and pressings of the finest order, the LP12 made them interesting and involving to listen to. The Technics SL110 I had before had feedback problems (they did then and specialist supports weren't even thought of) and reproduced the LP's more as they are - not always pleasant....

Ivor worked VERY hard to sell his product to young sales-guys like me. To be fair, he talked a lot of sense and getting one's trust is one good way to make industry friends and influence people.

The LP12 really did get you to the heart and soul of the music played, but in my case, I was long exposed to good master-tape copies and the utterly compelling qualities they have. Further exposure to The Blue Nile masters at the factory showed just how far Linn needed to go with the fruitbox. My "salvation" came with my discovery of the NAS decks.

having a Techie SL1700 in for a cartridge change reminded me how good these old direct drives could be, so it came as no surprise when Ken Kessler was deeply shocked by the performance of the SL1210 Gold edition. Further chats with a fellow LP12 setter-upper in our London branch confirmed that these old decks weren't anything like as bad as we had thought and actually very good indeed if carefully positioned (secretly of course, as the sales director would have had us on the carpet like a dose of salts).

I rarely go there, but the naim forum is an LP12 wet-fest, any suggestion of alternatives apparently met with silence, or derision, or criticism of the setup - thirty years after I used to spout this nonsense.......

Linn have just launched a sound idea at a hideous price - a in-built phono stage and a much better motor system (DC after decades of slag-offs). I'm sure they work well, as Roksan proved over twenty years ago that the Arta-Xerxes was a good idea and the old Airpax motor is a vibrational disaster, but the cost of keeping up with the LP12 Jones's is now out of reach for most owners I reckon...

[NRG]

Marco, they are deluded, blinkered and brainwashed.

--Neal (an ex LP12 owner for 15 years who saw the light )

[pure sound]

I'm amused that the died in the wool Linnies are now telling the Linn owner participating that his LP12 isn't really Linn enough. I wonder at what point it stopped being an LP12. When the power supply went on? Maybe the new plinth? The J7 rebuilt Ittok perhaps or the ESCoed Troika. Is an LP12 now not an LP12 if it doesn't have a Keel or the other recent mods? Linn owners everywhere will be horrified, and the Linnistas now have their get out!