Jriver mc19 volume levelling

[realysm42]

Just begun to analyse my library, should be done tonight I reckon.

Read some good things about this feature and am extra happy as my preamp won't have a remote, so levelling it should save a few trips, once I've found a volume level I like

Another interesting feature is the DR assessment, so far from what I've seen the best I've got is Doug MacLeod's 'There's a time' CD. Great album too.

Anyone else use this? What are your experiences?

[realysm42]

Just tried this out, it works very well.

Library analysis took a little while but is well worth the wait.

There's basically no audible volume difference between the loudest and quietest tracks. Excellent idea, well implemented.

I recommend this if you don't have a remote for your volume or simply don't like constantly adjusting your listening level

[Spectral Morn]

Just tried this out, it works very well.

Library analysis took a little while but is well worth the wait.

There's basically no audible volume difference between the loudest and quietest tracks. Excellent idea, well implemented.

I recommend this if you don't have a remote for your volume or simply don't like constantly adjusting your listening level

Surely flattening dynamic range and levelling volume is a bad thing - not how things are in the real world. This is what's wrong with most modern CDs and recording loudness and compression. Sounds like a step backwards imho.

Regards Neil

[realysm42]

Neil, perhaps you are right; I'm not going to pretend to know the answer and (as per usual) seems to spark much debate.

I'm going to "test" it out tonight and see what I can hear, I didn't think it fair on my poor neighbours to do so this morning.

One interesting thing I picked up with this feature is that the feature uses R128, which apparently is something being used in the Loudness wars (to fight against it), here's a link for anyone intersted or with an opinion to share (I'm all ears):

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=82025.0

[WAD62]

Are you using ReplayGain? Album & Track volume offset attributes?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReplayGain

http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index...._specification

...a quick check would suggest that Jriver only does 'Track'/'radio' gain which is not the full ReplayGain standard, although thankfully it doesn't remaster your source data.

For a proper implementation of ReplayGain one needs 'Album', which respects/maintains the relative volume differences between tracks within an album, therefore all tracks within an album will get the same dB offset value.

In addition there should be a ReplayGain pre-amp value to compensate for the overall lowering in volume, Winamp provides this, LMS permits Album & Track but no pre-amp value.

Bare in mind that switching on ReplayGain for playback will prevent a bit-perfect signal, as 16 bit tracks are expanded to 24 in order to apply the volume modification.

I used to use it on my SBoxes, but since getting my MDAC I've turned it off, it prefers 'Bit Perfect', although I sometimes use it for parties & Djing, oh and also on my 'ambient' playlist in the bedroom...

[realysm42]

Thanks Will, I read that this feature does respect volume differences between tracks in albums.

I'm not using any other features currently, Jriver indicates that my output is bit perfect.

[Rothchild]

Surely flattening dynamic range and levelling volume is a bad thing - not how things are in the real world. This is what's wrong with most modern CDs and recording loudness and compression. Sounds like a step backwards imho.

Regards Neil

It depends what the replay gain is doing, if it's trying to turn up the 'properly' mastered tracks to reach the level of the ones that have been smashed that would be bad, but my guess is that it's turning down the overly loud ones to some more bearable RMS (or LUFS) level so that they don't leap out against the stuff that's been left with a sensible amount of dynamic range. This is good (in a way) because those overmastered tracks won't sound as good all of a sudden and there'll (hopefully) be a swing back round to using some sensible amount of headroom. IMO most current rock and pop sounds great with 14 to 12dB of dynamic range over the average RMS level.

[realysm42]

Thanks Marc.

I've put a question forward about sound quality impact with the feature.

I'll put my neck on the block and say it sounds pretty damn good with it on tbh. Makes life a lot easier too.

[Rothchild]

Notwithstanding esoteric debates about 'losing bits' by turning stuff down, in general gain changes in the digital domain are 'inaudiable' (apart from obviously being louder or quieter!).

I was musing on this the other day as one of the reasons SQ changed (from a recording perspective) with the advent of digital; previously gain was 'expensive' in that it always brought noise with it so engineers were always on the look out to for opportunities to eek a bit more gain out of ths system (to get out ahead of the higher noise floor of analogue processing), combined with the fact that going 'hot' to tape has a familiar and generally pleasant effect on sound this was all good. If you will, gain was more 'expensive' than headroom.

However, with digital it's the other way around; gain is 'cheap' (and noise floors are low) combined with the longstanding myths about 'lost bits' and a poor understanding of the dynamic range represented by digital systems this has served to push up the 'price' of headroom to the extent that for a good period now there's been a great deal of music made without any!

The likely impact on SQ of Replay Gain and other normalisation strategies is to make stuff with no headroom sound worse. 99.9% of the time if you (average) level match material with headroom against that without then, at a nice listening volume, the stuff with more headroom will sound better (deeper stage, more impact from drums etc + crecendos and the general ebb and flow of volume makes you feel more engaged by the band etc).

[realysm42]

Okay, I've had volume levelling on pretty much since I created this thread and to my ears...

(Drum roll sounds)

Actually, its a hell of a lot better without. There could be any number of reason for me thinking it sounded OK turned on (ifi preamp burning in, new interconnects doing the same) but it sounds a lot less strangled off (which is a real shame, I'd have loved it to be better/as good turned on).

This really goes to show the value in my eyes of extended testing, then removing said adjustment, its highlighted the changes clearly for me.

So, this feature could be great if you want loads of music in the background and not have to worry about level matching, but for dedicated sessions, hmm, maybe not.