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Thread: Great high-end amps from the UK?

  1. #81
    Join Date: Jul 2009

    Posts: 303

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    Quote Originally Posted by nickbaba View Post
    So... assuming I did go down the route of using an affordable power amp like the MC2 or Yamaha 2500 - wouldn't I still need a decent (high-end) pre amp to connect all my sources (phono amp, cd, dac etc) to?
    In that case wouldn't it be the pre-amp which would really be making the big difference to SQ? And if so, would it not still be worth my while to buy as "high-end" as my budget allows?
    In order...

    Yes. Probably. Yes.

    Arguably the preamp contributes most to the overall performance of the amplifier, assuming the power amplifier is not hopelessly mis-matched with the loudspeakers (this is unlikely with Cerwin Vegas - although they need power to grip those bass units, they are sensitive and the minimum impedance is benign enough to make them easy to drive with almost any amplifier). I don't necessarily subscribe to the 'straight wire with gain' argument suggesting all power amps basically sound the same, but the preamplifier is the part where the wheels are most likely to come off the wagon in the whole amplifier bit. The same applies in the preamplifier stage within an integrated amplifier, but usually these have the advantage of working with a known and fixed power amplifier section also within the integrated amp, so the two are designed in tandem and designed to work well together.

    There are some excellent pre-power combinations recommended in this thread, but some of them seem to be a touch out of band, given the kind of budget you are pointing toward. Albarry, Art Audio and Tron are fine UK made products, but including both preamp and power amps will be pushing you toward a considerable investment beyond that budget, especially in the latter case. I think you might still be better off with a good integrated amplifier as you originally suggested, under the circumstances.

    I also think that, despite the antipathy toward retailers endemic to many forums, your best bet at this stage is to have a couple of professional demonstrations of UK made integrated amplifiers within your budget. If you are unable to obtain a home demonstration, ideally bring your own speakers and your music to the store's demonstration listening room to replicate the amp/speaker interaction. If this is impossible, you can usually 'listen through' some pretty substantial differences in system, because if one amplifier sounds intrinsically 'right' to you, chances are that would apply more universally than many here would care to admit.

    From experience, try to limit the number of products you audition - if you listen to five different amplifiers in relatively quick succession and still feel you haven't found the right one, you are probably expecting too much from the whole experience, and it becomes increasingly unlikely that subsequent amplifiers thrown into the mix will hit the spot. It's all too easy to fall victim to the tyranny of choice at this point.

    However, the most important thing to take along is an open mind. If you listen to a few amplifiers and conclude that the one you like is the one everybody on a forum hates, screw 'em. They don't have to live with your choice... you do. They don't have your room, your system, your ears... you do. People in audio often have strong opinions coupled with very long memories - their like or dislike toward the products of a manufacturer may be swayed by an event that took place decades ago (even the Great Train Robbers only got 30 years), and you should not let such things cloud your judgment.

  2. #82
    MartinT Guest

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    +1

    Great advice, Alan. That may well be my post of the year so far.

  3. #83
    Join Date: Sep 2012

    Location: London

    Posts: 434
    I'm Nick.

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    @ Alan Sircom

    Many thanks for a great post, and for taking the time to write such an informative and helpful piece of advice. +1 from me for post of the year!

    I do take your point about the synergy between matched units in a single box, and I have not written off the possibility of an integrated amp by any means. I do still intend to audition a M6i, which I believe was your suggestion from an earlier post on this thread. It does seem that many suggestions on this thread have been for separates. Perhaps that's a reflection of what's on offer, or sought after, in the (ahem) 'high end' of home audio.

    TBH I wasn't really in the market for a separates system, but I am tempted by the idea of using a 'Pro' amp at home as a way of getting more watts-for-my-buck. Its something I have tried before, as I used to run a Yamaha 2500S into my XLS 12s, but back then I was feeding it with a (good quality) Rodec DJ mixer as a pre-amp and wasn't really satisfied with the SQ. Bit of a blunt instrument, I felt.
    But having done some research online its looks like there are Pro amps capable of a good clean Class A signal (at least at low wattage). The Mc2 amps are repeatedly cited as a bit of a gem, and compared favourably to Brystons. The limiters are out of the signal path, and highly unlikely to ever kick in during normal home use anyway, which is also true for the cooling fans. My Yamaha always ran cool and the fans never activated in all the time I used it.

    So its tempting to look at a 2nd hand serviced Pro amp with a decent 2nd hand SS pre (Bryston BP25 or similar) as a way to put together a very powerful home set-up with good SQ for under £2000 total. I'm not sure about using a tube pre with a Pro amp. Croft, Art Audio and others make lovely tube pre's but I don't know at all if they would be a good match with a Pro amp, and tbh I'm wary of asking them directly - not sure how they would take that suggestion!

    However, I am bearing in mind the advice about properly matching pre to amp, and will also investigate integrateds before making up my mind. Its certainly a simpler solution. But at the power levels I'm looking at to drive my Cerwin's with plenty of headroom, its a more expensive one. The M6i is a definite possibility, and I should be able to audition one locally (SW London). I'm open to other suggestions - at this point not necessarily British, although that would still be nice. However, it does seem that we Brits tend towards lower wattage than might suit me. (Lots of 50W British power amps out there - nothing wrong with that but doesn't really work for my needs.)

    Once again thanks for taking the time to post and offer your help. Much appreciated.

  4. #84
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,932
    I'm Martin.

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    I've tried Behringer pro amps with a Croft micro basic and that didn't work out at all well, if that's any help. I have found the Croft to be a bit fussy about partnerign amps, the best combo I have tried being the Croft series 7, unsurprisingly. A passive pre amp with a pro amp could well be worth a try though.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  5. #85
    Join Date: Sep 2012

    Location: London

    Posts: 434
    I'm Nick.

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    Good to know, Macca - cheers.

  6. #86
    Join Date: Jun 2009

    Location: KEW,Richmond

    Posts: 64
    I'm Philip.

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    Maybe get a switch box to cope with the multiple inputs and an amp eg MC2 650 which has a volume control.

  7. #87
    Join Date: Sep 2012

    Location: London

    Posts: 434
    I'm Nick.

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    Whoa!
    Interesting, Smithy - I never even knew such a thing existed!
    Makes sense - maybe I don't need a pre to input sources if the power amp has gain controls... will look into it! Cheers.

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