Isonoe feet for Technics SL 1200/10

[Wakefield Turntables]

I agree with what you say, but, I don't think anyone has built a suspended plinth for the 1210 and this possibly Could be why the subject is not spoken about, not because we don't understand science, trust me there are many of us on this forum with several degrees in various sciences, kapish? Anyway, why not draw us some nice diagrams or point to some peer reviewed references to prove your point, I'd love to hear what you come up with

[Gordon Steadman]

I know science is a bit of a rude word on this forum, and there are lots of ears enjoying themselves, but these feet are not the obvious solution to isolation, which is of course a good suspended sub-chassis.
But sticking with techies, and just mechanical isolation from the turntable support, and completely ignoring airborne vibrations because we all listen on headphones or very quietly, sorbothane feet that small on something that heavy are at best what jeeves would have called a palliative, uunless you feel comfortable building the sort of tower block marco has been exhibiting on pfm.

I presume they are high durometer sorbothane for that small size and concentrated mass and will be relatively ineffectual at low frequencies. Or is downhill waterskiing making a comeback?

I for one, don't like suspended TTs as I have said before. I think you should accept that there is more than one way.............. (how I hate that expression, poor moggies)

My TT is solid. It sits on a solid rack on a suspended wooden floor. No feedback, no jumping as the floor is walked on, no isolation problems that I (or it has to be said, my able assistant) can hear. My previous deck just had sorbothane feet and it too was fine. Straight line thinking is not always the right solution in spite of the fact that I prefer science to mumbo jumbo.

[twotone]

Have you considered a re-wire of the stock arm? It's a fantastic improvement and not particularly difficult - http://theartofsound.net/forum/showt...165#post462165

Hi Jim, just had another look at your thread thanks for that, yeah I could do that no problem (I did the external PSU install myself).

How much did the cable and stuff cost you if you don't mind me asking?

Tony

[Clive197]

I know science is a bit of a rude word on this forum, and there are lots of ears enjoying themselves, but these feet are not the obvious solution to isolation, which is of course a good suspended sub-chassis.
But sticking with techies, and just mechanical isolation from the turntable support, and completely ignoring airborne vibrations because we all listen on headphones or very quietly, sorbothane feet that small on something that heavy are at best what jeeves would have called a palliative, uunless you feel comfortable building the sort of tower block marco has been exhibiting on pfm.

I presume they are high durometer sorbothane for that small size and concentrated mass and will be relatively ineffectual at low frequencies. Or is downhill waterskiing making a comeback?

Richard, from your comments it is clear to me that you have never seen Isonoe Boots And are therefor talking rubbish.

My last TT was a suspended unit and I and the whole family had to walk very carefully past it when I was playing a record as the stylus would jump with the least provocation. This does not happen with my Techie which is rock solid, even when I walk heavily on my suspended floorboards (carpeted) near my HiFi.

I for one believe that people who live in glass houses should not throw stones, you repeatedly knock Techie's in any configuration but you own a Pink Triangle, which to the best of my knowledge has had adverse comments thrown at it from all directions.

[Oldpinkman]

I for one, don't like suspended TTs as I have said before. Straight line thinking is not always the right solution in spite of the fact that I prefer science to mumbo jumbo.

Isolation does more than stop your record skipping from a heavy footfall. It makes stuff sound pretty. It all comes back to the business that that poor diamond is trying to trace a series of tiny weeny groove movements, on a 'kin great mechanical structure. The stylus has no brain. It doesn't know whether it is moving relative to the cartridge body because a groove made it do it, or because a vibration made it do it. But if it is for the wrong reason it will "muddy" the water. Now, before Barry or anyone else tells me they don't have Muddy Waters, it is all relative. There may be several valid isolation systems, but some can be shown, by measurement and audition to be better than others. And the effect of vibrations on the sound from your record player is easy to demonstrate - I use a matchbox or similar

If I bypass the suspension on the PT by lowering the stylus "direct" to the plinth (I have to put a matchbox or other mechanical coupler in 'cos it won't reach that low on it's own) and I turn the wick up on the amplifier, and I talk close to the cartridge, I can start a howl-around effect. If I rest the stylus on the "floating" record, I cannot start a howl-around effect by talking to it. Actually, on headphones you can use the stylus on matchbox as a passable microphone. I think that good suspension is part of what makes the music I listen to sound "clearer" or "less muddy".

Recent auditioning with solid deck Mr K of Funk Firm caused him to conclude likewise, and investigate going back to suspended. That's not to say his solid decks sound rubbish. Just that somewhere in the mix a decent isolation system gives you a bit more, or - more accurately, robs you of a bit less.

This is the same reason - essentially that the Funk arms (or any other arms) sound so different. They have their own "colour" because they are affected by different resonances (among lots of other things of course). So if the arm is excited at a particular frequency it wiggles the cartridge at that frequency, whilst the poor old stylus, decoupled by a cantilever is "static" relative to the wiggling arm. The effect is a tone played by the cartridge, in the same way as if the cartridge was staying still and the stylus was being wiggled by the record groove playing a note. It is the relative movement of the stylus to the cartridge body that produces the sound (ok - electrical signal strictly at that stage). If you add in that sound you muddy the waters. And the amounts of energy involved are tiny. High frequency notes represent movements by the stylus of microns. It's a bloody miracle any noise comes out at all when you look at the mechanics of the thing - never mind the most sublime music.

[Oldpinkman]

Richard, from your comments it is clear to me that you have never seen Isonoe Boots And are therefor talking rubbish.

My last TT was a suspended unit and I and the whole family had to walk very carefully past it when I was playing a record as the stylus would jump with the least provocation. This does not happen with my Techie which is rock solid, even when I walk heavily on my suspended floorboards (carpeted) near my HiFi.

I for one believe that people who live in glass houses should not throw stones, you repeatedly knock Techie's in any configuration but you own a Pink Triangle, which to the best of my knowledge has had adverse comments thrown at it from all directions.

Suspensions (usually floats) done badly are unstable - accepted. Do 'em properly
There is more to suspension than footfall - see my reply to Gordon
I don't care (as I think I have mentioned before) what other people think about PT's. I like mine, although I now have plans for mods to address some of its weaknesses
I do not repeatedly knock Techies. I point out that they are not very "HiFi" in standard form. This is almost universally acknowledged and endorsed by this forum, where everyone goes on a path to spend around £2000 (before arm) upgrading them to something better
I draw my conclusions about Techies from having listened to them very recently in direct comparison with my PT and other turntables - not from conjecture about what they sound like based on other solid turntables, incorrectly executed, which I had long ago

Perhaps you could clarify the rubbish I was talking about the Isonoes. I have seen the pictures posted. Are you saying they are low durometer sorbothane? That would make them squish flat and be fairly useless. Or are you saying they throw up a forcefield around the turntable that protects it from airborne vibration?

Referring back to Rexton - not being a scientist myself - I rely on experiences (the PT and the matchbox) and others. When I discussed it with AK he suggested a platform on springs, and I think, at the time, was contemplating one for his LSD. It should be possible to adapt that for the (heavier) Technics, with more, or stiffer springs. If you want to use sorbothane of lower durometer, then the solution I presume would be to spread the load, perhaps by having a sheet sandwiched between 2 solid sheets. Acrylic would have been the material I would have looked for as the solid "sandwich" bread, but glass, particularly damped glass, would be another candidate. Of course, you'd still need to put a lid around the whole shebang to protect from airborne vibrations.

[Clive197]

Richard, your waffling again.
1. Isonoe Boots are very thick and substantial and not only stop my stylus from bouncing about like a lame duck but also have a profound effect on the sound quality coming from my TT system. Waffling about force fields is very unhelpful and childish. Very not funny.

2. You DO repeatedly knock Techies.

3. I'm glad you like your PT , but have you considered that other analogue fans like their turntables, even though they may not be your cup of tea. You may notice that while I have opinions I try not to knock or criticise other members equipment only try to give advice based on my own experiences.

4. On a personal note, I have not spent £2,000 on my Technics. The arm that I purchased at the same time, Matt and feet came to a total of £950 + £550 for the SL1210M5G. The cartridge was purchased 18 months ago. The complete TT system is my pride and joy and the best turntable I have owned by a country mile.

As I have mentioned previously, I used to be in the trade before retirement and consider that I have trained ears. My hearing as tested recently was, I am told far better than the average for my age, other than a little Tinitus in my left ear, hence the hearing test.

[Frankyc2003]

sorry to budge in, but no, you don't need to spend £2K on a Technics to make it sound good.

I will take mine, which is an example amongst others, feel free to correct BTW...

Techie from ebay: £230
Upgraded Techie Arm (rewired, insulation): £90
Heavy Platter from Inspire Hifi: £100
KAB tonearm damper: £45
Externalized PSU: £30
Regulation Mod: £45
Isonoe Feet: £75 (second hand from a generous soul here at AOS)
And the most expensive of all Mike New's Bearing: £375 (second hand from a generous soul here at AOS)

TOTAL: £990

And the rest you can spend on pretty much any cartridge you like...

Bargain!!!

I know what you mean, people do tend to become militant about the kit they like, and that's understandable. But one has to apply the rules of objectivity as well. I personally hated suspended sub chassis, found them irritating and time consuming to setup for no real benefit... But again that's me.

Everyone likes different things, different sound signatures and types of colouration in their system.

In the end, objectively, Technics are as decent record player as any other... If it was cheap and easy to produce quartz locked motors for TT, trust me, no one would have bothered about rubber belts somewhere in Scotland around 1972...

And now I will take my coat...

[Canetoad]

Richard, your waffling again.
1. Isonoe Boots are very thick and substantial and not only stop my stylus from bouncing about like a lame duck but also have a profound effect on the sound quality coming from my TT system. Waffling about force fields is very unhelpful and childish. Very not funny.

2. You DO repeatedly knock Techies.

3. I'm glad you like your PT , but have you considered that other analogue fans like their turntables, even though they may not be your cup of tea. You may notice that while I have opinions I try not to knock or criticise other members equipment only try to give advice based on my own experiences.

4. On a personal note, I have not spent £2,000 on my Technics. The arm that I purchased at the same time, Matt and feet came to a total of £950 + £550 for the SL1210M5G. The cartridge was purchased 18 months ago. The complete TT system is my pride and joy and the best turntable I have owned by a country mile.

As I have mentioned previously, I used to be in the trade before retirement and consider that I have trained ears. My hearing as tested recently was, I am told far better than the average for my age, other than a little Tinitus in my left ear, hence the hearing test.

Clive, well put. Richard, you should have a trade account with all the PT/Funk marketing you do in just about every post.

[Gordon Steadman]

Isolation does more than stop your record skipping from a heavy footfall. It makes stuff sound pretty........ never mind the most sublime music.

No doubt true but I prefer the sound of non suspended TTs and find the music is more sublime and indeed, prettier than any suspended decks that I have heard.

I might be an idea to consider the possibility that your opinions and that of your friends, are just that. I realise that its unlikely that both of us could be right about everything so without definitive proof of the matter, I'll go along with me being right