+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 37

Thread: What 'normal' people think of us...

  1. #21
    Join Date: Dec 2012

    Location: Auld Reekie

    Posts: 483
    I'm Lawrence.

    Default

    That's a good video, sums up the problems that over-enthusiastic marketing causes, but I have to admit some of those products do sound tempting!

    I personally would be prepared to pay modestly more for a well made product. You can tell the quality of cables by looking at how they are put together; clearly, expensive materials and high quality manufacturing will cost more. Paying anything more than two to three hundred quid for speaker cables is not the way I would choose to spend my money. For an interconnect I would set my limit at £50. There are plenty of fantastic sounding products in that price bracket.

    I personally do not believe that there could be any significant difference between a relatively cheap and a very expensive digital cable, apart from the looks of course. I don't have an electrical engineering background, but I have friends who do and they assure me that so long as the information gets from one end to the other without data loss, that is the job done 100%.

    But I would also caution against lecturing others on how they choose to spend their money. The Government hasn't yet outlawed buying expensive cables and I hope they never do. It's really nobody else's business but mine how I spend my wages.

    What does tick me off slightly are manufacturers / dealers who ask high prices for a product but are not willing (or maybe able) to tell you exactly why the product is better than others. I want to be able to use my common sense and a little research before committing to a purchase, and when the seller relies on "faith" to part me from my money, I will always treat them with the utmost suspicion.

    Lawrence

  2. #22
    Join Date: Jan 2012

    Location: Hukerenui, NZ

    Posts: 95
    I'm Mike.

    Default

    If you need a bit of ammunition to use against EEs or "normal" people try this :-

    http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1274851

  3. #23
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Essex

    Posts: 31,853
    I'm openingabottleofwine.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike A View Post
    If you need a bit of ammunition to use against EEs or "normal" people try this :-

    http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1274851
    All the results found and reported in the above are explicable, and are no evidence of the need to buy exotic speaker cables.
    Barry

  4. #24
    Join Date: Jan 2012

    Location: Hukerenui, NZ

    Posts: 95
    I'm Mike.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    All the results found and reported in the above are explicable, and are no evidence of the need to buy exotic speaker cables.
    Very true, but they do show that there are good reasons why cables can sound different contrary to the claims of most skeptics, EEs and "normal" people.

    As for buying exotic cables, you need no other reason then "I want to"

  5. #25
    Join Date: Aug 2011

    Location: Bacau, Romania

    Posts: 1,215
    I'm Bob.

    Default

    And that is where "normal" comes into play....
    To the Audio Enthusiast, by installing a cable which creates a different sound, the conclusion is that the cables sound different.
    To Mr/Mrs Normal, the cable cannot "sound" as it has no means to do so, but can only be having an affect on the devices between which it connects.
    We are victims of our and the marketeers use of illogical language.

  6. #26
    Join Date: May 2012

    Location: Maidstone

    Posts: 977
    I'm James.

    Default

    I know this is old and many of us have heard this, but to me it's a classic and well worth watching again.
    The best part is within the first few minutes the English guy says, "when I used to be a normal person...."

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs1aUws0Lrs

  7. #27
    Join Date: Apr 2011

    Location: Surrey

    Posts: 4,162
    I'm Mike.

    Default

    This guy is not normal - y'know ?
    TAD CD / DAC / Pre, Technics 1210, MCRU PSU, Mike New Bearing & Platter, Stillpoints LP1 weight, Speedy Steve Ebony armboard, Fidelity Research FR64FX arm, Ortofon SPU. Aurorasound VIDA Phono Pre Amp, TAD Power Amp, TAD E1 speakers. Coherent RTZ 3 Grounding box, Coherent grounding cables, Creaktiv racks. Coherent Mains Cables. SR Blue Fuse. Interconnects : Coherent and Yannis 223.5 Connect Litz. Coherent speaker cable. Audio Magic Transcendence Conditioner. Coherent mains socket. Mains Filters : , PS Audio Harvesters, Russ Andrews Purifiers, Tacima, Vertex. Black Ravioli and RDC supports. Electric Beach S1NX platforms for TAD CD and Technics. Ferrite chokes everywhere except the above. Ears, brain

    Mike

  8. #28
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Yomanze View Post
    One thing is true though: if cables made such a 'big' difference (to me they make a significantly enough difference to warrant investing in), then there'd be no real argument, as we wouldn't be engaged in flame wars about them all the time! It isn't like forums are going crazy because someone suggested that 2 Way speakers can sound different.
    That's an excellent point, Neil, and one which certainly has merit. However, define "big"...? What's 'big' to you, may be small or insignificant for someone else (and no, I'm not talking about *THAT*, har, har ). It's an entirely subjective matter.

    The other thing to consider is the nature of the sonic improvement gained by upgrading cables, or anything else in a hi-fi system, and most importantly, how the listener perceives said improvement and how important that is to him or her, in terms of their enjoyment of listening to their favourite music. Upgrading speakers will always cause a 'bigger' change in the sound of a system than that effected by any cable, but only in the most 'obvious' hi-fi sense (deeper bass, crisper treble, wider soundstage, etc, etc).

    However, judiciously upgrading cables, in an already well-sorted system (that last part is important), can bring about subtle improvements in other areas (in terms of revealing nuances and details in recordings that increase the 'emotional connection' of the listener in the music he or she playing), which is difficult to achieve by other means. Therefore, to said listener, the improvements effected by a cable upgrade can sometimes be more fundamental/important and thus, to him or her, 'bigger' than the rather obvious (and expected) sonic improvements brought about by something like a speaker upgrade.

    That's half the problem... Those who define a 'big' difference/improvement in audio as being that achieved through a component or system simply excelling more in what I would call 'prosaic hi-fi considerations', will never GET what the right cables (and these needn't be hugely expensive) can do for the MUSICAL, as well as sonic performance of a hi-fi system. The two are very different entities.

    Quite simply, in order to truly 'get' what the right cables can do for a hi-fi system (note that I said 'right', rather than 'best', as there is no 'best'), one needs to dig deeper and listen beyond the 'immediately obvious'.

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  9. #29
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Incidentally, regarding the video. In parts it was funny, mainly due to the riduculous antics and facial expressions of the guy who made it.

    However, he did himself a disservice, and made the classic error of referring to others of a different mindset as "these idiots". As soon as things descend to a personal level like that, as far as I'm concerned, the perpetrator has lost his or argument, and so I just switch off - otherwise I just feel like retaliating in a similarly insulting fashion.

    Furthermore, as usual, with people of his rather 'rigid' mindset, he is guilty of rather over-simplistic 'black or white' thinking. Therefore, in terms of providing a giggle, the video worked, but for anything else more serious, is was an epic fail

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  10. #30
    Join Date: Mar 2012

    Location: Gloucestershire

    Posts: 3,377
    I'm Paul.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    That's an excellent point, Neil, and one which certainly has merit. However, define "big"...? What's 'big' to you, may be small or insignificant for someone else (and no, I'm not talking about *THAT*, har, har ). It's an entirely subjective matter.

    The other thing to consider is the nature of the sonic improvement gained by upgrading cables, or anything else in a hi-fi system, and most importantly, how the listener perceives said improvement and how important that is to him or her, in terms of their enjoyment of listening to their favourite music. Upgrading speakers will always cause a 'bigger' change in the sound of a system than that effected by any cable, but only in the most 'obvious' hi-fi sense (deeper bass, crisper treble, wider soundstage, etc, etc).

    However, judiciously upgrading cables, in an already well-sorted system (that last part is important), can bring about subtle improvements in other areas (in terms of revealing nuances and details in recordings that increase the 'emotional connection' of the listener in the music he or she playing), which is difficult to achieve by other means. Therefore, to said listener, the improvements effected by a cable upgrade can sometimes be more fundamental/important and thus, to him or her, 'bigger' than the rather obvious (and expected) sonic improvements brought about by something like a speaker upgrade.

    That's half the problem... Those who define a 'big' difference/improvement in audio as being that achieved through a component or system simply excelling more in what I would call 'prosaic hi-fi considerations', will never GET what the right cables (and these needn't be hugely expensive) can do for the MUSICAL, as well as sonic performance of a hi-fi system. The two are very different entities.

    Quite simply, in order to truly 'get' what the right cables can do for a hi-fi system (note that I said 'right', rather than 'best', as there is no 'best'), one needs to dig deeper and listen beyond the 'immediately obvious'.

    Marco.


    Absolutely Marco. Many (most) sceptics tend to forget that person "A" may be upgrading into an entirely different system than person "B" where it's the little details that matter, ones that person "B" may not appreciate in their own system for a multitude of reasons. I may be an engineer, and therefore objective when it comes to design, but I'm also open minded enough to accept that these differences are important to hifi/music enthusiasts. Who is anyone else to call someone an idiot for upgrading cables? Worth is whatever it is to the end user and many happen to buy into quality as much as for any other reason. All said and done, only the individual knows what works or doesn't in their own systems, and that includes where improvements can be heard so the final arbitor of whether to upgrade lies purely with the individual. There are some sceptics who are comically black and white for no other reason than they take colour from others but haven't a clue about the theories involved themselves. It's as much a belief system in their case as it appears to be for believers from their own perspective which is often overlooked.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •