Musicality

[Gordon Steadman]

I have been looking at the thread about favourite drum solos. My choice was Joe Morello who was technically up there but for me (and who else can I speak for?) his real talent was bringing out the music no matter how complex the beat.

I am stunned by some of the technical prowess of some musicians but am left totally cold by what they produce.

Do you think this is just because the genre doesn't appeal or just that some people don't have a musical bone in their body, no matter how proficient they have become on their chosen instrument.

I find someone like Eric Clapton, who I do enjoy, to be second rate beside BB King, who, despite playing half the notes at half the speed, is a musician in the real sense. Music must touch the soul (whatever that is) as well as the intellect (I think I put mine somewhere)

[The Grand Wazoo]

A great choice of subject for a thread, Gordon and 'touching the soul' is a great way to describe the thing that makes music so special to us all, I'm sure.

I know exactly what you mean about our Eric - I have a close attachment to a great deal of his work, but sometimes I wonder if he's an inspired cover artist with a small body of uncharacteristically good original material!
Exhibit one, yer honour:
Compare and contrast the two guitar solos here:

'My Back Pages' at the Bob Dylan 30th Anniversary Concert
Eric Clapton's solo which starts at 2' 09"
Neil Young's solo which starts at 4'15"



Neil's is a sloppy mess. *Erics is clean and crisp, technically very nice indeed.
Now, don't get me wrong, I think the Eric version is a great piece of work but the second that Neil's effort comes in, I get a chill down my spine. Even as a You Tube video on crappy laptop speakers. Which is better?

[WOStantonCS100]

Which is better? Neither... It's possible to be sloppy or clean, technical or melodic and still be insanely musical. Those are lessons we should have learned from Bach and Ravel and a myriad of others.

From the same hands and mind of one man:

Melodic and "slow"



Technical and "fast"



Both great IMHO.

Other than someone just not having any grasp at of what "music" is (melody, harmony, rhythm, counterpoint, etc.), it's pretty much down to personal preference, init. My personal feeling is that outside of Cream and maybe, DATD, sadly, Mr. Clapton mostly bores me. (But the man's work, as I think he himself admits, was adversely affected by his mental well being (issues) at various times in his life. It shows.) I'm well aware this is only my response to some of his work and that my views are not shared by everyone. I'm ok with that. My interest in Neil Young varies according to his particular period of musical activity and with whom. I love the early stuff and Deja Vu is a favorite; however, some of his later stuff has come... and gone from my collection with a quickness.

[John]

I like both.
Shawn is probarly the most technical guitar player I ever seen I was in awe in what he could do on the guitar when I saw him but I also love someone like Jeff Beck who just phrases so well and has a wonderful sense of touch.
I like players who have a bit of both to be honest, a good technique and able to play with emotion. For me the player that really nails this is Larry Carlton has a touch of Django around his abilty to improvise with the feel of BB King. I tend not to like sloppy players.

[Gordon Steadman]

Perhaps I chose a poor example. I wasn't really suggesting that it was the speed that determined the 'musicality'. I was thinking of a particular concert where King and Clapton were playing together and BB just blew me away and Eric left me cold.

Anyway, I had never heard of Shawn Lane. Looks interesting, I'll have to trawl YouTube for a bit

Strangely though, having just listened to the second example, I didn't enjoy it as it felt to me like a technical exercise. As you say, different stuff moves us in different ways. One of my favourite examples is in classical guitar. A piece called Passapied by Bacarisse played by Narcisso Yepes and David Mozqueda. Yepes is very 'correct', dead in time, technically terrific and doesn't seem to have found a single musical part of it. Its not 'easy' music as it is clearly a very technical piece, so it takes a good musician to find it.

[lurcher]

Perhaps I chose a poor example. I wasn't really suggesting that it was the speed that determined the 'musicality'. I was thinking of a particular concert where King and Clapton were playing together and BB just blew me away and Eric left me cold.

Anyway, I had never heard of Shawn Lane. Looks interesting, I'll have to trawl YouTube for a bit

Strangely though, having just listened to the second example, I didn't enjoy it as it felt to me like a technical exercise. As you say, different stuff moves us in different ways. One of my favourite examples is in classical guitar. A piece called Passapied by Bacarisse played by Narcisso Yepes and David Mozqueda. Yepes is very 'correct', dead in time, technically terrific and doesn't seem to have found a single musical part of it. Its not 'easy' music as it is clearly a very technical piece, so it takes a good musician to find it.

But what you have to consider is that some music requires an ear that is used to what going on before it sounds musical. You cant treat "musical" as if its an absolute.

Here is an example. For many people, this classic recording will leave the realm of musical, for others it will remain one of the most wonderful thing ever



To ears used to major triads, a b7 sounds odd, to ears used to a b7, a 13 is odd, and so on.

[Gordon Steadman]

But what you have to consider is that some music requires an ear that is used to what going on before it sounds musical. You cant treat "musical" as if its an absolute.

Granted. But once the ears are trained to a particular music, then you can make a 'musical' judgement. I listen mostly to Classical music and Jazz. Love the Coltrane.

[Firebottle]

Agree with the David Mozqueda playing that piece with more 'passion' for want of a better description.

One of the most musical CDs in our collection is a compilation call Planet Africa from 1991, http://www.allmusic.com/album/planet...a-mw0000270800

The copy I have has got 16 tracks on though, the web is only showing 11

Alan

[Gordon Steadman]

Agree with the David Mozqueda playing that piece with more 'passion' for want of a better description.

One of the most musical CDs in our collection is a compilation call Planet Africa from 1991, http://www.allmusic.com/album/planet...a-mw0000270800

The copy I have has got 16 tracks on though, the web is only showing 11

Alan

Hmmm,

Shame but for some reason the site won't let me play the samples for some reason. Probably a PC thang!:-(

[John]

Yes I also really enjoy David interpration of the piece and agree with your views on this. To me this is how the guy is phrasing the notes, he connecting to the emotional intention of the music.
I also get where Lurcher coming from, music that using some outside notes will divide views but that does not mean its not musical, over the years of playing guitar my taste has widened greatly as my ear has got used to music that a bit more outside or modular based.