Old Vs New Speakers

[ashleyk]

A local dealer has a pair on Ruark Talisman II speakers on sale and I haven't seen them up close but they sent me a picture and they aren't too pretty, having undergone a botched colour stain but I suppose these things can always be fixed.

The part I'm curious about is the "Old Vs New" debate because my understanding is that the Ruarks were a class act and cost a lot of money new but the way they are talking on the phone I get the impression that the sound quality would compare poorly with a new pair of speakers like the Monitor Audio BX2s costing just £250.

Have things improved that much with hifi speakers over the last 15 years? I'm using these as two specific examples but I'm interested to hear opinions in general terms as well. I'm looking for speakers to go with a Leak 20 valve amp if that makes any difference.

Thanks

Ashley

[Oldpinkman]

This made me smile. On another thread about a cartridge I am interested in the advice was "with cartridges you have to listen". Even more so speakers.

To give you 2 answers, Gordon in France would tell you the VERY old Quad ESL57's are the perfect match for your amp, and don't even bother listening to modern speakers. His views are a touch the right of Gengis Kahn in this area, but there is a large extent to which I agree with him. If you like that sort of sound.

For myself, advising a friend in Hong Kong about getting a first record player, I started to research speakers and "found" the Kef LS50's which get impressive reviews. Since they were deemed "pretty" by SWMBO we went to audtion them, on the basis if they were anywhere close I would accept pretty speakers until we move to France. They were so disappointing that on walking into the living room to listen to a record, after returning from the dem, 30 seconds in Mrs S announced "ok we'd better keep the ugly speakers". Of course, thats not really a fair new v old. Ventricals were £1500 a pair new and the LS50's are about £700 a pair. But maybe it is, because the last time I saw a pair of ventricals for sale they were going for £600 ( a ridiculous steal)

They are not for your amp though! But you asked about old v new

[julesd68]

I've never heard a pair of Monitor Audios I liked but admittedly I haven't heard the recent ones. I would still be amazed if they could touch the Ruarks. How much does the dealer want for them?

[ashleyk]

I've never heard a pair of Monitor Audios I liked but admittedly I haven't heard the recent ones. I would still be amazed if they could touch the Ruarks. How much does the dealer want for them?

The dealer wants £225 for the Ruarks but I would almost certainly offer less, even if I'm blown away by the sound because of the botched DIY colour stain. Perhaps it's possible to simply sand down and wax but it's quite a bit of work and I'm not sure how the Ruarks are constructed.

The Monitor Audio BX2s are the current darlings with What HiFi and deemed to be the best in their class. They cost about £250 but I'd also need to spend some more on a set of speaker stands. I'm looking for the right longterm solution though and frankly not willing to spend huge sums upgrading every 6 months.

Something to bear in mind is that I'm in an average sized lounge and the speakers will need to be placed up close to a wall either side of the TV. I've just patched together this shot to show the layout after moving everything to fit in the new hi-fi.

[julesd68]

If you are looking for a long-term solution I believe your lovely Stereo 20 deserves much better than a £250 MA speaker.

I would put your budget towards a quality used speaker. The Talismans are front ported so should work well against a wall. They seem to sell for £150-180 on ebay in good condition, so yes, you would want to pay way under £225 and then you've got the effort of restoring the cabs ...

[ashleyk]

If you are looking for a long-term solution I believe your lovely Stereo 20 deserves much better than a £250 MA speaker.

I would put your budget towards a quality used speaker. The Talismans are front ported so should work well against a wall. They seem to sell for £150-180 on ebay in good condition, so yes, you would want to pay way under £225 and then you've got the effort of restoring the cabs ...

The acid test will be to go and listen I suppose. I was just a little surprised by the way they discarded the Ruarks as merely "good for their day but things have moved on". The only advantage of buying from a dealer rather than eBay is that I get a chance to hear them first and verify everything is working. Lets face it, some eBay sellers are economic with the truth and the supplied photos are frequently not even the items being sold.

[Reffc]

This comes up quite regularly;

I'd argue that speakers designed and made in the 1960's through to the 1980's for example lacked only more modern materials technology, and that's all that really held them back. Many were better designed than the plethora of under braced under damped MDF boxes manufactured today. Today its ALL about bottom line profit and manufacturing ease, and design compromises are made left right and centre to accommodate fashion (market placement and demographics) and profit.

Compromises were always made (just look at old Tannoy cabinets) but I'd argue that design ethos was probably purer to some extent.

Had there been the materials about to make decently insulated voice coils back in the day for example, power handling could and would have been higher. Some speakers just used Shellac for voice coil insulation.

Have things got "better" in the last 15 years, never mind the last 40 years? I doubt it.

[julesd68]

Just to clarify, I don't expect a dealer to do eBay prices and of course you can demo them first, but the price should take into account the time it will take to get the cabs looking right.

If you want a long-term solution you might want to see if you can hold out till you have a budget that will give you some better options, but nothing lost by seeing what those two speakers can do.

[ashleyk]

The only answer here is to see the speakers up close and have a listen but I'm quite prepared to walk away if I don't like them for any reason. I think I need to get down there tomorrow though just to satisfy my curiosity, since it will also help me decide just how much I'm willing to spend on a system. I also hear good things about the Royd Minstrels that appear quite frequently on eBay for similar money but this whole new vs old debate needs to be tested side by side.

For more than a year I've been writing a book, which is an awful lot of unpaid time spent living off savings but it should be released in a month or so. Once the money (hopefully) starts to come in I could probably get something better without a problem but I'd really like to rebuild the bank balance again before embarking on any extravagant expenses. One thought I actually had is to buy a pair of Wharfedale Diamond 9.1s with some used Partington Super Dreadnought stands. I can then sell the speakers later on with no real loss but the stands will be good enough for practically any upgrade.

[Gordon Steadman]

To give you 2 answers, Gordon in France would tell you the VERY old Quad ESL57's are the perfect match for your amp, and don't even bother listening to modern speakers. His views are a touch the right of Gengis Kahn in this area, but there is a large extent to which I agree with him. If you like that sort of sound.

Hah!! If you think I'm right of Gengis, you should talk to my wife

Seriously though folks (yup its possible, some people do take me seriously apparently) I have listened to many speakers from Kef, Tannoy, Meridian, Celestion etc but although some of them have their strengths, I always return to the Quads as, together with the Leak, they present music as I recognise it.

I have had a pair of home builds in the main system this last week. Everyone that heard them thought they were great but....... I found myself listening to them not the music. This is not the idea - back the the 57s with some relief.

Until you listen, you can't make a proper decision for you.