Your favourite DAC?

[purite audio]

I have a couple of friends who both spent the majority of their careers in recording and mastering, they both agree that when they heard their first CD it sounded far more like the microphone feed than the vinyl copy.
Neither of them purchased vinyl after that first exposure to the new medium.
The recording quality is paramount but a well recorded CD sounds pretty good to me.
Keith.

[Oldpinkman]

I have a couple of friends who both spent the majority of their careers in recording and mastering, they both agree that when they heard their first CD it sounded far more like the microphone feed than the vinyl copy.
Neither of them purchased vinyl after that first exposure to the new medium.
The recording quality is paramount but a well recorded CD sounds pretty good to me.
Keith.

Wow. I have a Nimbus classical vinyl LP of that vintage, and a similar Nimbus CD - when mastering equipment was 16bit, both intended to showcase the new technology, and they fully reflect the weaknesses of early digital compared with modern recording technology. There was a lot of AAD in those early days. Of course, we are all entitled to like what we like, and there is certainly a lot of diverse opinion on here. I would just note that if I compare a basic CDP (we have a Sony CDP XE530 in the kitchen) with early "ordinary" record players (the stock technics Sl1210 I recently borrowed would be a good example, from the vintage of the first cd's), then I agree with their comment. The Sony CDP sounds more like the master than the SL1200 which sounds muffled and dull by comparison. Tonally the CD player is better. In terms of "detail" and "clarity" the CDP is better. I haven't done it for ages, but I bet I could still listen for ages to the dull LP's. CD's I don't like to listen to in my system, I might have tolerated in a poor system, where the amp and speakers did a bit of muffling.

But a good turntable system gets all the detail, clarity and tonal accuracy of CD's without the "falseness" which fatigues with time (at the expense of a few pops and crackles). This was a lot of the issue for Pink Triangle in the early days. The establishment, which effectively meant the Linn/Naim fan club, found CD and Pink Triangle equally unfamiliar in that they were very similar tonally - and very different from the warm coloured Linn/Naim sound. Of course, today that emphasis has shifted.

So - no surprise a recording engineer would think a CD sounded closer to the master in principal. He was probably listening to vinyl on a fairly ordinary record player. Or maybe he had a reference system, and just likes CD sound. I was expressing my experiences. It reminds me of that PT slowing under load letter again, where "my friend who is a musician says he can hear it". I was not seeking to establish the superiority of my argument by claiming my auditioners were a reference point because they were professional classical musicians - heaven forbid. They happened to be the friends who were there on the night, and they happen to be ex- Trinity graduates (violin, soprano, and piano). That doesn't make their opinion of hifi or anything else special. Its just who they are. I know a few local recording engineers too. A lot of them listen to music on an MP3 player most of the time - often with only one of the earphones in. When focussed on their job they are mostly focussed on tone (bright, bass heavy, mid-suck out etc) and not some of those more subtle aspects. And a cd player of the 70's was tonally closer to a master tape than most common (even studio and "professional") record players - and capable of revealing more detail.

Which brings us back to Andrei's point I was responding to- no question there is more bang per buck from CD. Good vinyl is expensive.

[purite audio]

I think you just prefer the slightly rolled off quality of vinyl, the intermodulation distortion acts like added reverb and can be quite pleasant, I have both vinyl and digital sources here,I am always amazesd that vinyl sounds as good as it can given its technical deficiencies.
Keith.

[Andrei]

Which brings us back to Andrei's point I was responding to- no question there is more bang per buck from CD. Good vinyl is expensive.

Allow me to be pedantic: More bang for the buck with Digital.

I enjoy the analogue vs digital debate and I do come down on the side of digital. But let me say this: My absolute two best pieces of recorded music ever are both LPs. Stravinsky's Rite of Spring on DG with Claudio Abbado conducting and Elvis Presley on a Living Voice 45 rpm recording. When I have demo'd these I have got gasps of admiration: 'In the room' 'I can hear the breathing'. But this is a minority, from 3rd place to ... dunno 20th? all are 24 bit 96 Khz or 24 bit 192 khz recordings.

I do love my LPs and ... I know there is is no clear answer to this ... I have to work out for myself what I have to do to get the full benefit of an analogue source.

[Oldpinkman]

Allow me to be pedantic: More bang for the buck with Digital.

.

Assuredly. More bang for buck with Digital. My apologies. Which brings me to my other point. Can you teach me how to get all this 24 bit stuff. I was clearly too thick 18 months ago when I last gave it a bit of a go. Thanks in anticipation.

[MartinT]

I think you just prefer the slightly rolled off quality of vinyl

What rolled off quality? Not here, guv!

[Oldpinkman]

Nor here, but I wearied. I was told my system was eechy screechy, for suggesting it had some detail. Now its rolled off. I like it whichever it is

[Andrei]

... how to get all this 24 bit stuff.

There are quite a few options.
Usenet. You would need to have (1) a usenet provider, such as Giganews; (2) Newsreader software, such as Grabit. (3) To get full benefit you would need two more programs, Winrar and Quickpar. The former as RAR is the compression progam of choice, and the latter to correct errors. You then browse the Newsgroups of interest such as alt.binaries.sounds.lossless. The downsides of Usenet is first that it is a bit fiddly to set up - but like driving, once you have learned it is very easy. Second, Lots (the majority I am sure) is copyright.
Ripping There is software to rip DVDA and SACD. DVDA is easy enough but there is not much available. SACD is fiendishly difficult (you have to have an old Playstation to do it!). In short this this not a good option.
Web Sites My favourite is Channel Classics: http://www.channelclassics.com/ . The process is basically to follow their instructions. There is some gorgeous Vivaldi by Rachel Podger, - lots of goodies. Here are a few sites:

https://www.hdtracks.com/
http://www.2l.no/hires/index.html
http://www.analekta.com/en/
http://www.linnrecords.com/
http://www.highdeftapetransfers.com/index.php
http://www.bowers-wilkins.net/Society_of_Sound/

HDTracks is popular but you have to watch out what you get there. There is a fair bit of music that is nothing more than up-sampled from 16 bit 44.1 khz to 24 bit 10 trillion khz. There was a big, and mostly useful, thread over on whatsbestforum.com on the subject of flogging music that will light up the 96Khz or 192khz buttons on your Dac but in reality contain no more information. Also people like Hi-Fi News' Paul Miller is doing his best to keep the peddlers honest. Hope that gets you started. :->

[John]

Up to about a year and half ago I would always consider myself a vinyl man, these days I do not have a preference I am happy with both. If I am honest there still things my vinyl set up does in terms of bass and resolution on a well recorded LP brings, but these days I can quite happily switch between the 2

[Oldpinkman]

Thanks Andrei

I'll keep that as a reference source, but it sort of confirms my previous experience. It's still a bit esoteric. I had a quick browse (5 minutes) but couldn't find the titles I wanted a record of. That's the end of my attention span. There was talk (somewhere) of Apple listing its entire library in 24 bit format (doubtless with the concern of pointless up-sampling). I hate to cast myself as a technophobe, or just plain wrinklie, but I feel a bit like my dad when he went into a record shop to buy me a Christmas present. I listen to my music by hearing something I want, and walking into the HMV store (or web store) and picking it up and having it put in a bag. Where do I buy Adele 21 in 24 bit? - The question was rhetorical - just an expression that 24 bit will be for me when it is a standard format for most titles I might want, and I can go to an HMV store equivalent. Or when i have a lot of time on my hands.

Tomorrow. Maybe.