Lenco versus Technics

[Idlewithnodrive]

Anyway, back to the good old Lenco.

Take one heavy platter Lenco (or heavy platter conversion), blend in a slate plinth, add one Jelco arm, an Achromat etc. and away you go. A perfect recipe for one seriously capable TT and all for < £ 500 all in.

Job done

[Oldpinkman]

Geoff

I like to try to make sense of the world I live in, even if only from the ladybird book version of it Interesting list of arms you mention, in that for once in this place I know them all well. I too preferred the 774 to the ittok, although have had a dry damping trough for years. For most of the last 20 years, because I had a technics u205 in it, with a compliance that ... er, I mean, which seemed real happy there. I had used MC's in it, but added weight at the headshell and counterweight ( a device on the Mission which uses a sorbothane damping insert, I know, I know...), but in my own deck at home its been the U205 from osaka, until the babysitter ripped the stylus out by accident. And since then the goldring (about 4 or 5 years now I think) - which is also real happy in a 774 undamped.

"Or a Rega, modified or other" - now I've not heard all these fancy new rega's and their modified derivatives, only a stock RB300, and again I agree the 774 pisses on it. And I've not heard the FXR - Funk's modified Rega yet either, but currently plan to pick one up Friday (don't hold your breath, this is Arthur we're talking about). Is that one included in your list? Cos, I'm going to be real shocked if it is. The f5 is significantly better than the 774 (as in Mrs S could immediately hear it too), and that can only be down to the tube. I won't do farmer physics, but no other bit on it is different enough to account for the effect. Now, the tube in the FXR is not the same, but the principal is. So I am expecting something special, albeit I can't quite figure out the detachable headshell and rega bearings in a flagship (it has to be because the tube idea came first, and modding someone elses bearings was easier) (Detachable headshell I suspect cos the FXR is carbon-fibre, and not easy to squash flat into a headshell, and the F5 is very much an attempt at a budget product, and the headshell off the FXR would be the easy cheap option.)

Or have you heard an FXR, and am I in for a disappointment?

[DSJR]

774 pisses on an RB300? Sorry to be dense in calling you on this, but in what way? The RB300 really does need a carefully selected arm board with many decks, as the tightly toleranced bearing assembly won't absorb fine resonances as the RB250/Techno-arm etc do. Origin Live do a splendid job of ruining the arm, adding all sorts of resonances and iffy finish into the equation, but peeps seem to like it, despite these modded products ringing like bells..

I'm only saying this because Marco et al thought nothing of trying an ebony board for the Jelco, yet the RB300, which should be better in every way except mass and exit cable quality? just gets sidelined - "It's CRAP!" you all shout, when hifi dave and I have heard it sing on certain turntables by Michell, NAS and Pink T I believe. The newer RB301 has been measured to be practically resonance free by NK in HFW tests and of course the better models have blingy finish and better exit cables - what's inside is supposed to be top quality Hitachi OFC cabling, but maybe the thin gauge of this cable (best for low friction) counts against it sonically, although I can't substantiate it.

Richard, I apologise if I'm peeing on any parade here. I'm too old, stupid and probably deaf to rely only on opinion alone. In fairness to Arthur, he has measured all the usual suspect tonearms in developing his tonearm, as well as bodging a Rega arm or two for the great bearings they offer. I still think there could be mileage in an FXR style arm pipe for a 774 (although the original was foam filled and pretty inert as I remember) and also one for a Lenco bearing block, as long as he isn't tempted to charge hundreds and hundreds of quid for it - IMO..

None of this should detract from the tonearm Funk make which seems to offer so much. I wonder if the length is Lenco compatible? T'would be so nice to have a custom collar that would exactly fit a GL75 hole, using the fine cueing mechnism on offer... Just silly thoughts as I'm a long-standing idiot where butchering old Lenco's is concerned. A modern drop-in replacement that uses as much of what's already there fits much better with me than wholesale chopping and chewing of the existing top plate, but that's my problem

[Oldpinkman]

Ok. Sorry Dave. I'll try to make less outrageous generalisations, but if I have to preface every comment, with "in my experience, I find.." I mentioned I had only heard a stock rb300. I'm aware it has a good reputation. My mate Arthur has chosen it as the basis for his pimping mods. I meant to say, on my turntable, with my setup, I greatly preferred the 774 I have to the RB300, which is why when I had the choice of arms, I stuck a 774 on my own turntable. I am of the arrogant opinion that it is a hugely under-rated and competent design, and I like it very much indeed. It is a scruffy looking bit of mechano though, so that maybe why.
I was reflecting on Marco and his Merc's - I drive a Freelander 2 because I love British made world-class icons, that fall to bits. I told you I'm a scruffy bugger.

I havent heard the Jelco, but I have only heard good things of it. I note it is on the GL75 idlewithnodrive posted, which looks really interesting and my cup of tea. Would be keen to learn more. Find it hard to understand how the price is under £500 unless the Jelco was picked up at the same boot fair I suggested my outlaws get shot of their Max Bygraves boxed set at. But, assuming I pickup this GL75 I am bidding on, that looks a direction I'd like to follow. Any plans available? However, first, I think I am going to have a long overdue pimp of a completely stock MK1 PT into a vectored Anni with knobs on. We'll take it from there.

To address your point about arms, I think you fail to understand how expensive it is customising as a manufacturer. Arthur is not greedy. He underprices and goes broke regularly as a result. He has underpriced the F5, and we need to have a chat about that this week, because it is only viable to sell it at that price if he can shift it in volume, and I dont think there is the market. But at least, he can draw an idiots guide and get them assembled by the case load. Customising is expensive. If you can give him an order for 200 off of the L75 tubes maybe £200. If you want just one, maybe £2000. He needs to make his business viable by having some nice steady regular product, not the hugely time-intensive customisation stuff (after he's helped me with my PT project of course)

If you're comment about "too old, stupid and deaf to rely on opinion alone" was a reference to how good the F5 is, too bloody right. I'm not trusting opinion - I'm trusting my ears, and I'd expect you to do likewise. I see you are in Suffolk. The 405 is in hospital in Suffolk. I might swing past with an arm if it works out that way. Otherwise, I think you know the other Dave, and he has the arm on an LSD, which for all that it doesn't bounce, will give you a perfectly good idea what it sounds like.

[DSJR]

A good thrashing with the LSD is well on the cards for my next visit (couldn't make it over Whitsun).

I've been taken severely to task by Dalek Neil a few times and one of these was because I appear to make generalisations without backing it up as my opinion or experience. I do try to do this and I'm only defensive about the RB arms because I've heard a stock one in a deck it likes sound stunning. It was this that changed my mind about this arm, as it's all too easy to get it badly wrong, in which case it sounds tuneless and muted, almost bland. At least Michell get Rega to do final assembly and set up of the Techno-Arm I believe and of all the bodged RB's out there, this is one of the best - in my opinion - gawd

I take your point about one-offs, but just how different in diameter is the FX arm-pipe compared to the L75 or 774 I wonder?

[Idlewithnodrive]

Richard,

My GL75 is actually a 90 degree rotated GL72 with a heavy platter conversion. The Jelco 250S is a minter that I picked up for £170 s/h. I also bought the Sumiko s/h, so you can see how the deck comes in at < £500.

Previously had a mildly modded (feet, mat, PSU mounted in a separate box) 1210 and the Lenco slaughters it in every aspect.

Not heard much that substantially betters it even in the £1000 - £1500 range, IMHO etc etc.

[walpurgis]

In every instance I've tried Rega arms, standard or 'upgraded', they have not compared well to the 774, regardless of turntable.

[DSJR]

Ah, ok It's thirty four years or so since I had my own 774 and sales of these for us slowed and almost stopped when the Ittok came out and Mission chose to use a very unfriendly (to suspended decks) thick exit cable.

The 774 was a superb match to the Systemdek I remember, the whole way better (looking back) than the then hideously coloured early Fruitbox/Ittok combination...

[walpurgis]

My last 774 (I have three) came with a rather tired Systemdek I bought at the Tonbridge audio jumble for £200. The arm was nice, and I sold the Dunlop for £100, so that was a cheap 774 (currently my spare, but I have a good TT to use it on soon).