Speaker Stands Advice Required Please.

[DaveK]

Hi,
Some of you may already be aware that in the Gallery area I am being gently but firmly persuaded to invest in some speaker stands. Because the Budget Controller is very anti stands it is important that any stands look more like bits of furniture than mini oil rigs. Accordingly I am focussing on Custom rc60 stands in wood. These would be custom made to my precise requirements.
My floor is the usual construction of tongue and groove floorboards nailed to joists 4 feet above a concrete raft. On top of this I have laid a thin layer of sound deadening/insulation on top of which I have laid solid wood flooring, probably a total layer (floor boards, insulation and wood floring), of about 1 inch I guess. Currently my MS Mezzo 2 speakers are resting on a 2 inch granite isolation plinth on the floor.
Question 1: -
When advising the manufacturer of the required height of the stands do I continue to use the granite plinth (reduce the overall height required by 2" to accommodate the plinth)?
Question 2: -
Do I need the spikes on the bottom of the stands or will this depend on whether I sit them on the wooden floor or the plinth?
As must be obvious from the above, all this is new (black art) to me so please feel free to give me your feelings, no matter how basic or obvious.
Thanks in anticipation,
Dave.

[Marco]

Hi Dave,

You may get conflicting advice on this, as people's viewpoints are different, but based on considerable experience in this area I would recommend that you keep the granite plinths, using them effectively as your 'floor' (I like granite and consider it a fine material for this purpose), and allow for this in the required stand height you supply to the manufacturer

Also, I would try removing the spikes and simply sit your speaker stands on top of the granite plinths (certainly when adjusting positioning, especially 'toe-in'), but also afterwards, as you may prefer the effect. Much will depend on the acoustics of the room, speaker interaction, and/or your sonic preferences, so experiment with and without spikes to see which you prefer.

Make sure, too, that you try positioning the speakers with different amounts of distance from the back wall. Use familiar music to test this and choose the distance which you feel gives the right mix of good bass response and a clear and open sound without ‘boom’. Also, if possible, keep speaker cables away from the skirting board or back wall and out into the room more behind the speakers.

One thing that is critical is that once your speakers are in situ (on spikes or not), they must be ABSOLUTELY level in order that the drive units can perform as intended, and if using spikes, don't over-tighten them (simply 'nip' them up) as this can make for an overly bright, 'etched' sound.

Hope this helps. If you've got any further queries, fire away!

Marco.

[DaveK]

Thanks Marco,
Just what I needed. I am keen to do it right first time if at all possible as I can't afford expensive mistakes (being a poor pensioner)
Dave.

[Spectral Morn]

I would also use blobs of blue tack under the speakers to lock them onto the stand...prevents accidents and sounds better IMHO.

I agree with Marco about keeping the granite, I use similar but much thicker in my upstairs room and it prevents bass boom; if you have a poor floor. The tweeter of the speaker should be at ear height. Measure from floor to the position of your ears when sitting down normally (not slouching). So floor to ear height-height of granite and speaker height =height of stands needed.

Paul and his wife at Custom Design are nice people, I used to love dealing with them when in the trade. They do an acoustic steel top and bottom plate option for their speaker stands, which may be worth looking into. Raises the cost a bit though.


Regards D S D L

[The Grand Wazoo]

Dave,
Since you've already invested in the granite slabs I think it would be a great idea for you to use them if you can. Some people might suggest putting spikes on the stands & cones under the plinths but I think you might find a more useful improvement by physically attaching the stone to the underside of the stands. One of the best value for money improvements I ever made to my system (in a previous incarnation) was to attach some steel plates to the bases of them to add mass. It cost me about £20 and every aspect of the sound was improved.

They will have tapped metal inserts in them to accept spikes. If you can align some new holes in the slabs with these you can then run bolts or some threaded bar through the granite & into the spike inserts. If you use dome headed bolts, you'll have (almost) point contact with the floor without piercing it & ruining the finish of your boards. Alternatively, you could attach some cones, or something similar, with double sided sticky tape to the bottom to keep the bolt heads off the floor. Put something like coins or similar under the cones to protect your floor.

Not only will your wife prefer the look, but I'm convinced it will sound better than the other method.

You could reduce the height of the stands accordingly, but I don't think it'll be a life or death problem if you don't. After all do you sit rigidly in your seat? I don't. Getting the tweeter level in the vicinity of your ears will be most of the battle won. But go for it if it's free!!

[Marco]

I would also use blobs of blue tack under the speakers to lock them onto the stand...prevents accidents and sounds better IMHO.

Agreed. This is an excellent tip and should be used in the absence of (or perhaps in preference of) upward-firing spikes on the speaker stand top plates

Marco.

[Spectral Morn]

Agreed. This is an excellent tip and should be used in the absence of (or perhaps in preference of) upward-firing spikes on the speaker stand top plates

Marco.

Should have said...one in each corner and three in a line from front to back and side to side of the stand, so it looks as viewed from the top as my diagram below. The blobs of blue tack don't need to be very big.

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As to Chris's idea yes but drilling granite etc needs to be done by a monumental mason..DIY can be an issue as the type of drill needed must be mounted in some sort of a jig or a bench drill to stop slippage at the start and insure your holes are straight-from top to bottom. Monumental masons are probably used to crazy audiophiles asking them to do things other than making grave stones. However CD stands using acoustic steel work well by using a damping layer between the steel plates. The problem with adding lots of mass to your stands is it is possible you might increase bass to much....thus meaning you will have to move the speakers out from the wall. I would get the stands and try positioning etc and see what you think first.


Regards D S D L

[The Grand Wazoo]

Dave,

What species of timber is your flooring - do you know? It looks like Oak to me. It appears to be of a parquet type construction (small staves). So when you laid it, did it come in the form of individual small staves, or were the small staves already made up into planks?
Also, is it 'floating' or attached through the insulation layer to the original floorboards?

(There is a reason for this seemingly unconnected line of questioning!)

[Stratmangler]

To keep cost down you could try building something like these http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/stubby_e.html , or following this route http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/akropolise.html


Chris

[DaveK]

Attn. Stratmangler
Thanks for the pointer - I will certainly follow it up and let you have my thoughts.
Attn. Cris Wazoo
Thanks for the interest. The main reason I gave the flooring details so much attention was that I suspected it could have some influence on what I was trying to achieve so not for a second did I think your questions were unrelated.
Of course I know what it is and yes, it is Oak - well spotted - I (and Controller) chose it after much looking (despite the impression I might have given earlier, there is much more that we agree on than disagree) and I laid it, so I know it intimately. It was not cheap, mid range I'd say, in 3 layers, only the top of which is Oak, with a varnish finish. It was supplied in packs of 8 or 10 planks, all of which were the same width and length, and each plank is made up of 3 pieces wide of almost random lengths, i.e. each piece of plank is made up of 3 equally wide but almost random lengths of mini planks. In your terminology, 3 small staves made into planks. If I have confused rather than clarified the description please get back to me.
Each plank (large) sort of locks into the adjacent one at one side and one end and was lightly glued to keep it tight. The whole floor floats, i.e. it is not glued or otherwise attached to either the insulation or the original floorboards. This was the second such floor I have laid, the first being for my daughter and I learned much from the first time, for instance I did not use any cork expansion piece anywhere between plank and skirting board. Mine looks much neater than daughter's and there has been zero movement expansion that I can detect after 8 or 10 years.
Cheers,
Dave.