Steve's current turntable journey

[Magna Audio]

I've been reading all your exploits and thought it time to share mine

It started with a few TT's in the late 70's early 80's - there was no choice then.
Now after 9 (or is it more) years with no turntable and having used the last one (Ariston RD11E with Sme something or other, bless it's socks), I got a Rega 3 with all the OL mods on a RB250 and a Sumiko BPS Evo III.
It is/was a bit bright (sorted largely by lowering the arm until I liked it more).
Cart does not really suit the gain setting on the Dyna P75 however.

So, I decided to get a AT 33PTG (read it pairs well with the P75 esp on Phono enhancer / current amp mode) - Not arrived yet and then for some irrational reason (mostly what I have read on here) I have bought a PSU modded SL-1210 - again not arrived yet.

Plan is to mount the RB250 and muck about with it (I love fiddling) and then play the Rega off against the SL. Winner stays on the stand

The reason for all this - I can't find a PL-71 anywhere.
Gromit you have a lot to answer for (A Stax set up finally trumped the Slee and the AT-W1000's BTW).

In the meantime I've had great fun with Foculpods, MDF and granite on the Rega - big change in sound from this.

So, after playing around, do I save up for a SME 309 or for a Jelco SA-250ST? What if I like the punch of the Rega? I'm no big classical fan.
If I did that what cart? 103 top dog or?

So many questions so little time.
More when the gear arrives... god I hate waiting...

[Peter Stockwell]

So, after playing around, do I save up for a SME 309 or for a Jelco SA-250ST? What if I like the punch of the Rega? I'm no big classical fan.
If I did that what cart? 103 top dog or?

Personally no experience of Rega arms on the SL1210. marco doesn't like them. I could never get on long term with a rega, I had a P3 twice back in the day, I think a fruit box derivative would be more satisfying (Thorens, Linn, etc).

The single most satisfying thing with a Teccie is the pitch stability, this gives a completely different view of previously known music. The psu upgrade amplifies this stability, and because the bass transients do not slow the TT down you get a much clearer view of the mid range - where the music is.

I use an AT33PTG in an SMEIV on my SL1210. I'm always gobsmacked at how much better it is than the Squeezebox that I use most (I don't always have the time to sit down and listen, I have other chores to do).

Look at MartinT's comments about the Jelco, or Pete's (I think) views on the 309. the SMEIV is probably overkill, but I wanted one for years.

cheers

[Magna Audio]

Yeah, I have read all the comments about Rega's and arms. Suck it and see I thought. I am open and an new arm can come should I think it necessary / the time is right. Black SME's look sooo nice don't they.
I like a bit of impact to the music hence the big Tannoy's. Not into classical but do like some jazz.
Interesting about the pitch - I can def hear something going on with Rega on that score. I have a Teac VRDS T1 and DPA Enlghtenment Dac front end for CD so the deck has to perform to beat that combo. It's taken me a while to get happy with D playback - tried all sorts of Dac's / CDP's. TT's will be no different.

Anyway in many ways it's the journey that is fun.

[muffinman]

Why not give a trans fi Terminator a chance?
Vic does a fair returns policy, so if you don't like it no worries. If you do like it you'll have an extra £100 lying round for your cart purchase.

[Marco]

Hi Steve,

Love your exploits so far, and good luck with them

My thoughts are well-known regarding low-mass belt-drive T/Ts of any description and Rega arms, so I won't repeat myself again - it's in the archive and I'm sure you've read it all.

Enjoying recorded music through a hi-fi system is such a subjective experience with a multitude of variables attached to it, so it's very difficult to make blanket recommendations which will universally apply to everyone. You may love the combination of the P3 with OL-modded 250 and AT-33PTG in your system, and prefer it to your modified 1210, and of course this is all that matters, but it wouldn't necessarily mean that former is the better turntable in a technical sense.

Incidentally, which PSU have you got for the Techy?

The problem when people decide which turntable is 'best' is the highly subjective nature of their judgement criteria and how they prioritise various aspects of this over others when coming to a conclusion. I am of course no different to anyone else in that respect, but what will always be of paramount importance to me is which turntable gets the most music from recordings whilst imposing as little of its own character or 'sonic signature' on it as possible. I don't want to hear what the T/T is doing - I just want to hear what's on the record.

Unlike others, and don't get me wrong there's nothing wrong with this, but I am not seduced by the euphonic colorations some other T/Ts imbue on the music, particularly the LP12 and other low-mass belt-drives of its ilk. I can understand people enjoying and becoming used/addicted to this particular sound and then finding more neutral and 'accurate' sounding T/Ts 'tuneless' or not being very good at 'making music', when mostly what's happening is that they're seeking a particular 'flavour', and when that flavour isn't there then it's quite natural to assume that something is missing.

It's rather like removing the sugar from a cup of tea when you're used to having three spoons of sugar in it, or eating a plain grilled steak, cooked rare, instead of having it well-done and covered in a cream pepper sauce: at first the taste will come as bit of a shock and superficially appear as quite unpleasant, or even somewhat bland in comparison to what you're used to, but in reality all that's happening is you're sampling what the raw ingredients actually taste like when all the 'artificial additives' have been stripped away - and so it is I feel with music, good direct-drive T/Ts, and their low-mass belt-drive counterparts.

Persevere with the 'rawness' of the presentation of a high quality direct-drive turntable and the only flavour you'll 'taste', or hear, is that of the music itself... Highly accurate speed stability, and thus vanishingly low coloration, is at the root of that effect and the main ingredient in the success of this recipe. One simply then chooses an arm and cartridge that enhances the quality of the raw ingredients, much like a good gravy does to a Sunday roast, or a beurre noisette to a piece of John Dory

It'll be interesting to see which way you go.

With regard to partnering tonearms, no I don't like the Rega, for reasons already specified elsewhere, and I'm not sure if its inherent colorations will cloud your judgement of the 1210. However, with a 33-PTG I'd be more inclined to partner it with an SME (go for the best one you can afford) than the Jelco, purely because the AT doesn't require high-mass.

Enjoy your forthcoming experiments and keep us posted of developments!

Marco.

[Marco]

That's a very good suggestion from Gareth. The Terminator is an excellent arm

Marco.

[Magna Audio]

Whoohoo. Get home to find deck waiting for me.
Assemble in 5 mins. Adjust height of RB250 to roughly where it sounded best on the P3 and play.
Auberge first up - well I do have a parts of the mans Caterham 7 engine management system on my 7
Interesting that two decks on the same arm / cart can sound so different.

Bottom end is solid very solid. On some tracks it seems to go waaaay deeper.
Top end is a little shouty, drop the arm down a tad - better.
Mids and highs are quite spaced and very detailed. Sound stage is there.

Next up some bass and percussion - Dire Straits Communique, News and Where do you think you're going. Bass still a bit solid. Like what the rest is doing. At this point I change the very thick rubber that came with it to a thick felt mat. Adjust arm height slightly.
Ah, that's interesting - more timbre to the bass, more air to the vocals.
On to Oscar Peterson's Night train.
This is one jamming trio. Like the snap of the high hat, double bass is tight and timely. Tannoy's push out a mean rocksbox.

Summary of very short session - It's a solid sound, pitch is so obviously rock solid. Less toppy or shouty than the Rega deck. There's plenty of detail too. It's quite engaging.

Need more disc time. Will continue listening via the Stax now...

Been reading up on Trans-Fi Audio.
I think I want to hear it with a Terminator. It's only money and you can't take it with you...

[nortonl]

Glad it got there OK Steve.

I was about to suggest experimenting with mats but I see you're on to that.

Guess feet might affect the bass but I never got around to that.

One thing I would try is removing the nut from under the Rega. I find this really sets the arm free. You have to dress the arm cable so it doesn't pull to either side. If you like it, rig up something to stop the arm base rotating when cueing (I used fuses stuck in blu-tack). I assume that you're using the OL VTA adjuster - works just fine with that.

[Magna Audio]

John (Purveyor of tunes & Music Room Mod) came over this afternoon for a listen. He was checking out my 20w tube amp (now attenuated to about 8w) to hear what such an amp could do for him with 96dB efficient open baffle speakers he is planning.

We started on CD, a compilation of stuff he made to test my system.

Then moved on to John's vinyl (Keith Jarrett - piano and Nick Drake acoustic guitar).
Great to hear some new sounds and artists I've not come across.
I played some of my favourites - Oscar Peterson Trio - Night train on vinyl and Jan Johansson Jazz på Svenska on CD. We compared the Vinyl 1963 cut of Night train with a CD remaster from 1996). Different tonally but the reality of Piano sound was all the way with the Vinyl - no contest.

The SL-1210 did not disgrace itself at all. John put it above a Gyrodeck and on the way to an Orb but not there yet.
It is a rock solid platform - we could both see why folk talk of it's potential.

I am still having gain issues with my Sumiko BSP EvoIII cart and the Dynavector P75 (makes it sound a little restrained - not all getting through some how). The AT 33PTG still not arrived - hope that will sort this out.
The detail was great and I have the feeling this is a great platform on which to build.
John did nothing to dissuade me from a Trans-fi audio parallel arm, saying it would def put notch the arm way up there.

So, a very good listening session and food for thought about the next move.
Great to meet a fellow artofsounder and share some music over a warm amp.

I am looking forward to getting the cart and a phone call / trip to Watford is in order I think... To be continued.

[John]

It was great meeting you Steve I totally get the whole potential thing about the deck as you know just going to a better Cartridge match for your system will make a big difference The system is nice and clean and shows plenty of potential my first experience of a 1210 and yes I do get what the fuss is about increadble value for money. It had a lot of detail and allowed the music to flow. Think either the Jelco or Terminator will suit you well but you know where my money would go
Great sharing music I really enjoyed the Oscar Peterson and Jan Johansson stuff nice system and thanks for the warm welcome