Cheap? Yes. Good...? (mains conditioner)

[Jason P]

Hi all,

I was having a discussion with a friend who's in to all things AV (real multichannel buff) and we got around to talking about mains conditioners. He was raving about the ones he'd installed in his system, and when I heard the price I thought 'gotta be worth a punt'... its one of these.
It arrived the other day, and not expecting much I plumbed it in this morning. Initial impressions of the product were OK - a reasonably sturdy construction, no switches or neons, a sturdy plug and RF sheilded lead. After a few CDs and LPs on my existing setup, I swapped over... and the difference was marked. It wasn't gobsmackingly-my-god-I-have-to-tell-everyone different, but noticeably better in terms of definition, separation and stereo image - everything was much clearer, and there seemed to be more atmosphere around all instruments.

My CD source seemed to have more clout and the LP was just all-round better. I'm a happy bunny. For the money, I'd put it down as one of those 'no brainer' upgrades for anyone sceptical about the quality of their mains supply - I can only wonder what the top-line conditioners do, but as with all these things it may be a case of diminishing return. YMMV as the yanks say... I'd recommend for anyone looking for a low-budget upgrade that affects their whole system. Added bonus - and one jusification fro trying it - if you use homeplugs for networking, it has cured the problem I had with the data being audible as a hiss/crackle throught the hifi...

Jason

[Spectral Morn]

Hi Jason

Thanks for the write up and link. However and I don't want to rain on your parade, this unit is suitable for budget set ups and some mid price gear but to be honest kit thats more high-end will not IMHE benefit from this unit.

I would also suggest not running amplifiers off this as frankly it will more than likely suck the life out of them.

If you have a lot of items in your house or near by that might put crap into the mains and a lot of budget gear will start to sound grainy its in these circumstances that this mains unit will be okay but more revealing gear will not benefit...infact its my opinion that it will actually loose detail etc as the this mains filter (and other cheap types) will rob the kit of the very transparency you have paid for.

As with all things audio suck it and see. Different locations and systems will give varying results but my experience with this and similar mains items makes me concerned for what they can mask in a good audio system. Yes the mains is important but in my experience more money needs to be spent especially when it come to amplification. PS audio and Iso-8 products is where you need to look, but even these may not always result in improvements.

With mains units YOU must try at home to be sure.

Jason maybe you might like to put a bit more flesh on the bones of your experiences with the Tacima unit. Tell us about how it particularly effects different music. Track with and track with out unit...write a review a bit like a magazine might. You could also say what kit you have as well just a thought. I am always fascinated about others experiences.


Regards D S D L

[Jason P]

Hi Neil,

Thanks for that info. I'm not up on the in's and outs of these, it really was a punt in the dark and like I said my main purpose was to see if it improved the interference from the homeplugs. Mains around here is pretty dire anyway...

I totally agree with your assertion that it won't necessarily benefit, and may adversely affect, higher end gear. I'm using relatively cheap stuff - a NAD 3130 (around 25 years old) and a Sony 303ES/ 1210 front end. My post above were initial impressions, and, mindful of the 'expectation' factor I really tried to listen objectively - as far as it is possible!

I'll certainly give it a more studied, considered review when I have a little more time for critical listening. It will be interesting to see if those initial impressions come with negative effects too, and only time will tell. Sometimes a difference in kit is obvious - but I find that, as with many things, stuff that is 'gone' can take a little longer to appreciate. I should have been a little more circumspect in my 'no brainer' assertion!

Fortunately I have a double socket so I'm keen to try your suggestion of running the amp seperately...

Thanks for your considered reply, all grist to the mill and it'll be interesting to see how things fare. If, in the context of a 'low budget' hifi system, £30 on one of these produces more good than bad, then it may indeed prove to be worthwhile. If not - well, its £30! One of the things I've rediscovered recently, having gotten rid of my Linn stuff, is the enjoyment of trying cheap tweaks and secondhand 'classic' stuff (usually cheap as chips, or at least affordable) that, if it doesn't work, you don't lose a fortune on - or feel obliged to 'hear the difference' cos the thought of spending loads and getting nowt is too hard to bear!!

Jason

[Spectral Morn]

Hi Jason

I look forward to reading your future thoughts and observations.


Regards D S D L

[Puffin]

Anyone got any thoughts on balanced mains? You could spend a fortune on the Russ Andrews ones, but a bit of surfing let me find the same lower priced unit at a 10th of the price (£300) still a lot of money, but it might be worth it?

[DSJR]

I remember a big thing about mains "conditioning" around twenty years ago. At the time, I lived in Luton and the mains there was cr@p of the highest order (the place wasn't much better, but that's another story).

I had a Deltec PDM1 mk2, which sounded scrappy without a mains filter of some sort. Apparently, the unit itself had a noisy supply or summat and this was why a filter was needed IIRC.

Later, I experimented with cable "ferrites" to good success and "imagined" the sound was cleaner and more musical in the bass with them in situ. I read an article by ben Duncan stating that the rating of a pi-style filter (as appears in this mains block) should be ten times that of the item to which it's connected. I used a 4A rated filter made by Glenn Croft on my CD players in later years to good effect. The AVI preamp was immune to mains difficulties but the ATC actives seemed to like ferrites on the mains leads - home made with soldered 16A rated cable and MK 13A fused plugs on.

The Chord Company marketed a £200 6A mains filter for a while called the "Clearway." Shunned by the "in-crowd" it actually worked well on my CD player and tuner (one on each!). Linn sources and preamps with SMPS benefitted from one on each item, minimising interaction between them (a Karik/Numerik was a MUCH better combo treated this way, but the CD12 didn't mind either way. A Naim Supercap didn't sound any different either in the same environment). I later discovered that the Clearway lives on as the sub £40 Roxburgh filter available from Farnelll UK.

In our current coastal location, despite the fact that one of the biggest European ports is a mile or two down the road, our mains is clean and these filters have little or no effect. I still keep one on the CD player, as those old Philips 16 bit chipsets/players can spray a lot of rf and ultra-sonic muck into the mains and down the screen of the interconnect (one reason why the transformer coupled balanced output sounds so much better than the original CD94 based SE output, which sounds closer to the balanced if ferrites are used).

Sorry to hi-jack the thread, but hope some of this helps and explains why Mr Dalek [Chronicles] Emperor () suggests leaving the power amps off this mains block, which sems a good buy for source components used in a noisy mains environment.

[Spectral Morn]

Hi Dave

Your thread drift (which I don't think it is by the way) is very interesting and certainly the use of ferrite rings is something I have been using on my system cables for years (since the TDK noise clamps appeared on the market...20 years ago..I think.)

Back in the day, I found the Pandora Box to work very well on the Marantz CD94 mk2, as did the afore mentioned TDK Ferrite clamps. The Pandora Box was an EC Audio product, and was, if I remember right, a Tom Evans design. Worked well as long as you didn't overload it and stayed low in your items power demands.......if you did that, it turned to a molten puddle of metal. I ruined one once by hooking it up to an Oracle Delphi Turbo PSU.....it never worked again, blew fuses as soon as it was switched on....I was young and a bit stupid back then.

Dave's right about the head room on mains units you must allow a lot of extra capacity, so as not to kill dynamics. This is why amplification needs really good/matching mains products. Its like engine capacity in a car. if you live in East Anglia which is mostly flat, low is okay, but if you live in the Highlands of Scotland a big powerful engine will make the journey effortless (i.e the car won't feel like its about to blow up. Did a journey in the Highlands once in a low powered car...that was not good). If you imagine the dynamic swings and loudness peaks in the music to be like going on the flat and then suddenly up a hill then a mountain...the amplifier has to draw more electricity to move those speaker drive units to meet the demands of the music (never mind whether the speaker and power capability of the amplifier match). Mains conditioners/filters can and do act like a dam on the voltage the amp needs. Say like a sprinter suddenly on the last part of the race, picking up speed having bags of sand hung on his body....it doesn't work it slows to a crawl. Simple explanation.

Dave do you like the new avatar ?..yeh I know I am not an Emperor but theres been a take over....


Regards D S D L

[John]

I am using Balanced mains and sold my PS audio P500 as it does a better job of controlling noise in my system
I think like all things mains related it will be have to be try and see but my experience has been very positive

[Jason P]

Dave's right about the head room on mains units you must allow a lot of extra capacity, so as not to kill dynamics... <snip> ... Say like a sprinter suddenly on the last part of the race, picking up speed having bags of sand hung on his body....it doesn't work it slows to a crawl. Simple explanation.

That's a great analogy and has helped me understand some of the problems associated with this type of 'conditioner' and the expense of some of the more esoteric ones!

I've been listening more critically to the setup and there are defininte benefits, next step is to see how the amp fares from the bare mains.

Jason

[Spectral Morn]

Hi Jason

I look forward to your write up.



Regards D S D L