Vinyl compression

[julesd68]

When did nasty compression get introduced to vinyl recordings?

Listening to my rock lp's the ones with the best dynamic range tend to be from the early 70's ... I've found that recordings from the late 70's and early 80's are much more variable and often sound rather "congested" with Rush lp's sounding the best by a country mile!

Do you have the same experience as me?

[DSJR]

Compression has been used in one form or another since the early days of tape recording I understand, since neither the recording or playback machinery can fully reproduce a full dynamic range. orchestras often self-compressed, under-playing the loud passages and increasing volume of quieter ones. They did this right into the digital era too apparently.

In the good old bad old days of the 50's and 60's, the tape was often the main limiter, the recorders allowing the tape full reign. I understand simple compressors such as the Fairchild one could give the audible impression of added "punch" to pop singles for example, rather than the horrible gain-ridden "squash" used subsequently in the solid state era.

My simple advice is this - if a main US artist, look out for original US pressings. That goes for US-popular Brit artists too such as Robert Plant for example (TML or Stirling cuts in the case of Mr Plant). UK cuts done on tape copies of US artists (Steely Dan are an infamous one from "my" era) often sound weedy and lacking in comparison.

I could go on ad nauseum, but would bore the pants off you. Just try to find a good record shop if you can and try a few samples - Epic in the UK often knackered their stampers, the bass distortion on later pressings from the same stampers sounding awful when compared to the early pressings...

One final thing from the vinyl era... The better systems and deck-setups tend to render the EFFECTS of compression and distortion much less objectionable. You're going to hate me, but the Chario's I've heard and sold are warm and slightly soft in delivery as I recall. Add this to a beefy sounding tonearm and an ancient generator in the P77 (similar body as the famous A&R ones I believe) giving you a beefy bass with a recessed treble and you're going well on the way to bloat (where the annoying area of bass distortion and compression often lies)with an overly soft treble that fails to sparkle..

Just some thoughts from a distance and obviously, I cannot hear your system...

[julesd68]

Dave, I never hate constructive advice, unless you tell me to get a frickin' Rega Brio that is!

I'm definitely interested to pursue your line of enquiry. First thing I should say is that whilst I very rarely listen to cd now, when I do, the treble doesn't sound recessed in the least with the Charios, so whilst I would agree that they are on the warm and rich side, I'm not sure that they are causing a problem as such - they throw up a very big soundstage indeed and I do generally enjoy their presentation.

I have always been much more drawn to the presentation of vinyl. Doesn't vinyl give the impression of a slightly more recessed treble anyway? Also, when I listen to a well-recorded lp like Rush's 'Moving Pictures' I'm really happy with the treble performance.

There is possibly an issue with bass performance in the speakers. They are rear ported and being close to the back wall there may well be a little bloating going on. But again, this isn't obviously a speaker issue - with cd the bass is tighter and better controlled.

Next issue - the deck. As you know the Source is a heavy-weight with quite a renowned bass performance. Maybe there is an issue with that and the Kuzma in combination? I'm not willing to point the finger at the P77i just yet - it certainly has a perkier performance than the old Nagaoka MP50.

What are you thoughts?

[Barry]

Compression has been used in one form or another since the early days of tape recording I understand, since neither the recording or playback machinery can fully reproduce a full dynamic range. orchestras often self-compressed, under-playing the loud passages and increasing volume of quieter ones. They did this right into the digital era too apparently.

In the good old bad old days of the 50's and 60's, the tape was often the main limiter, the recorders allowing the tape full reign. I understand simple compressors such as the Fairchild one could give the audible impression of added "punch" to pop singles for example, rather than the horrible gain-ridden "squash" used subsequently in the solid state era.

My simple advice is this - if a main US artist, look out for original US pressings. That goes for US-popular Brit artists too such as Robert Plant for example (TML or Stirling cuts in the case of Mr Plant). UK cuts done on tape copies of US artists (Steely Dan are an infamous one from "my" era) often sound weedy and lacking in comparison.

I could go on ad nauseum, but would bore the pants off you. Just try to find a good record shop if you can and try a few samples - Epic in the UK often knackered their stampers, the bass distortion on later pressings from the same stampers sounding awful when compared to the early pressings...

One final thing from the vinyl era... The better systems and deck-setups tend to render the EFFECTS of compression and distortion much less objectionable. You're going to hate me, but the Chario's I've heard and sold are warm and slightly soft in delivery as I recall. Add this to a beefy sounding tonearm and an ancient generator in the P77 (similar body as the famous A&R ones I believe) giving you a beefy bass with a recessed treble and you're going well on the way to bloat (where the annoying area of bass distortion and compression often lies)with an overly soft treble that fails to sparkle..

Just some thoughts from a distance and obviously, I cannot hear your system...

Excellent post Dave.

'Companders' (compresser/expander units) have been used in the (electric) recording industry from almost day one. It is simply not possible to transfer the full dynamic range onto vinyl during cutting, so some form of compresion has to be used.

I didn't know that this compression was sometimes deliberately done by the orchestra whilst playing.

I've always been a fan of US pressings of UK bands - they used thicker vinyl and had better made sleeves.