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Thread: CDs help make my life a bore.

  1. #441
    Join Date: Apr 2008

    Location: Cheshire, UK

    Posts: 2,829
    I'm Clive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by purite audio View Post
    Everything Frank wrote is absolutely correct, I am always amazed that vinyl can sound so good despite its technical flaws.
    Keith.
    If vinyl is well understood and all the correct measurements are taken then you should not be amazed, it should be totally logical. If not then something magical is happening, oh and before I'm jumped on, I'm not suggesting that anything magical is happening.
    TT 1 Trans-Fi Salvation with magnetic bearing + Trans-Fi Terminator T3Pro + London Reference
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  2. #442
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by purite audio View Post
    Everything Frank wrote is absolutely correct, I am always amazed that vinyl can sound so good despite its technical flaws.
    Keith.
    Yes, everything that Frank wrote was correct, except that his 'correct' is not what many of us hear in the real world...

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  3. #443
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Hi Marc,

    Sorry for my late response to this.

    I think yet again you're misinterpreting those of us who are interested in the technical discussion and (wrongly, it would appear to me) painting us as 'objectivists'.
    That's a fair point, and I accept it. However, I can only comment on what I see written in front of me, based on my previous experience of observing this type of behaviour, and as far as Frank goes, all the usual signs were there of a typical 'objectivist', bearing in mind that many self-proclaimed objectivists also use their ears, in the final analysis, to form their opinions in audio.

    However, as I said earlier, if Frank rejects the label of an 'objectivist', I'm more than happy to stand corrected, and that also applies to you

    Are you suggesting that you've never made a subjective decision (of the hundreds), based on your senses, which you latterly realised was wrong because you'd mis-heard/mis-read/got caught out cos it looked different in the certain light (or what ever) etc and then when the information is presented again and you took it in differently you made a different decsion?
    Of course not! I've made plenty of misjudgements and mistakes, over the years, in audio. I'm human the same as anyone else. However, I've learned from those mistakes and so don't repeat them, and instead use the information gained to strengthen the skills of my subjective analysis. Ultimately, for me, the practical experience gained from listening to 100s of different types of equipment, in many different contexts, over many years, is worth much more than the contents of any technical textbooks!

    Do you never use any other point of information /knowledge to make a judgement beyond your gut instinct?
    Yes, occasionally I look at the technical specifications of some equipment, which I may have to buy blind, and those often give me an inkling of what to expect, sonically. Cartridges are a good example here. I will also take into consideration information given by those whose ears I trust. There are a few people on this forum and in 'real life' whose opinions would influence my prospective buying of equipment.

    I tend to shun the opinions of so-called 'experts', whether they are media-based or otherwise, as often their ego is greater than their actual knowledge of the subject in question. Unfortunately, we're predisposed to follow the opinion of 'experts', especially when said 'experts' come from a scientific background and have great technical knowledge.

    Well, I'm afraid that that doesn't impress me one iota. Those who impress me are people who can demonstrate that they have good ears, through what they write on the subject of audio and music, and ultimately, from demonstrating that they have superb sounding systems and a good grasp of how real instruments and voices sound, un-amplified, in order to use this as an effective benchmark from which to judge how they are reproduced through a hi-fi system.

    Science and measurements will only ever tell us so much about audio. I'm a free-thinker who follows my own path, and ultimately will always trust my ears.

    I'm not advocating using test equipment to test a hifi setup I'm suggesting using it to test the quality of (and potentially improve) my own subjective judgements!
    That's fine - I understand that. However, I rarely find that necessary. The only test equipment I use on a regular basis is a stylus pressure gauge and an alignment protractor - my ears are plenty good enough to judge anything else I may need to know!

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  4. #444
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clive View Post
    Musical reproduction exists for people to enjoy. If we only focus on a set of measurements with electronic instruments we'd better ensure we take all the required measurements and assign the correct priorities to what we find. We absolutely have to understand how different people perceive music as there are many differences and preferences. We need to look at sensing music, not just hearing it.
    Spot on, Clive. That is the very point the scientific fraternity in audio, who obsess over technicalities, fail to grasp, or try to avoid - take your pick!

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  5. #445
    Join Date: Feb 2011

    Location: South Wales

    Posts: 7,487
    I'm the'greatunwashed'.

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    "People will hear what you tell them to hear" - Thomas Edison

  6. #446
    Join Date: Jan 2011

    Location: Eastern, US

    Posts: 1,869
    I'm afesteringvinylphile.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dufferdan View Post
    ...Two comments/observations. On was the post where the concept of science was discredited because research changes over time and may change conclusions. Without the discipline of scientific questioning and continuous testing of theories, progress would eventually stall. In all areas of scientific endeavour. You can't throw out science just because conclusions evolve. Conclusions evolve because new information comes to light which changes or forces the theory being examined to be altered. Then it is tested again...
    I think you were referring to my comments, although I believe you misunderstood them. Yet somehow you've managed to state exactly what I was getting at. And, I can't state that any better than you just have for that was my point.

    Of course, we don't just throw out science. A whole boat load of science went into analogue playback before anyone ever thought about using A/D/A for the purpose of recording and playing back consumer music.

    But, as you said "conclusions evolve because new information comes to light". So, it seems to me we have a choice. Do we really accept that, essentially, science stopped at 16/44.1 ??? Do we really accept that just because we don't have a glaringly obvious equation for what scores of folks are obviously hearing in analogue playback, we should regard it as euphony? Or does it make more sense to assume that there just might be something to that. Something that requires "more scientific questioning and continuos testing...." The most unscientific stance to take is to plant one's feet so deeply in the ground as to say there is nothing more science needs to or can tell us about this matter. That's what I'm getting from some of the posts here about the "completeness" of 16/44.1 and supposed inabilities of analogue playback. I can't agree with such statements "because research changes over time and may change conclusions" and often does.
    Lyrics are the ramblings of man, sometimes inspired by The Creator, most often, not.
    But music (melodies, harmonies, rhythms), that's God stuff.
    Always was. Always will be.


    One of the biggest lies ever told was that only certain kinds of people should listen to certain kinds of music.

    (silent) VINYL LP SLIDESHOWS

  7. #447
    Join Date: Jan 2011

    Location: Eastern, US

    Posts: 1,869
    I'm afesteringvinylphile.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post




    I guess I've been around here for a bit now... but, yikes... that's disturbing.
    Lyrics are the ramblings of man, sometimes inspired by The Creator, most often, not.
    But music (melodies, harmonies, rhythms), that's God stuff.
    Always was. Always will be.


    One of the biggest lies ever told was that only certain kinds of people should listen to certain kinds of music.

    (silent) VINYL LP SLIDESHOWS

  8. #448
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post


    Glad you like! Thank Dave (Synsei) who found it, although strappy high heels are normally my favs, not courts...

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  9. #449
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: South Wales

    Posts: 9,151
    I'm NotTakingLifeTooSeriouslyTheseDays.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Glad you like! Thank Dave (Synsei) who found it, although strappy high heels are normally my favs, not courts...

    Marco.

    Brilliant!
    A...
    "Today scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality"
    Nikola Tesla



    Its now a conspiracy theory to believe that the Immune system is capable of doing the job it was designed to do.
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