Power amp for Croft Micro 25

[The Black Adder]

If it's transistor I bet a Karan would sound nice with it... But they are quite a bit.

[DSJR]

I would reject the any power amp you like idea. For instance I just don't agree with Dave's idea that they work well with Albarry mono blocks. I have tried this and it is simply not a great match; you lose the benefits of both parties. Much better with any Croft power amp. I really think you are unlikely to hear how good the Croft pre is until you hear it in this context. Also beware of using a very sensitive amp like a Leak 20 unless you are comfortable with very high gain. I'm not saying that from personal experience but from reading about someone else's experience recently. All very contextual as ever.

Well, I disagree! The Albarry amps are extremely dry and controlled sonically. Add their preamp (up to recently anyway) and all the air and space evaporates, the sound being so tightly held the music fails to "breathe" - IMO. Used with a Croft 25R, the Albarry power amps retain their excellent sense of grip, but regain the air and space and tunefulness that's otherwise missing - in my opinion after listening for an hour or three. The Croft Series 7 in comparison is brighter, "looser" in feel and possibly a touch more diffused depending on speakers used..

We've used a serviced Stereo 20 several times with the 25 and 25R with no volume difficulties, nor hum and noise. I admit the Leak could have had its input gain adjusted (as is best with Quad 303's and 405's these days), but it works a treat for me anyway. I don't think Dave has changed his demo preamps recently, but there seemed to be plenty of volume control, although the control "law" is like everyone elses - two thirds gain adjustment in the first third to half the control range.

Croft preamps are very quiet on the whole, the distortion and signal/noise being up to most solid state products here. The output impedance is low enough for all but the most demanding situations these days (and the phono stage is now all but immune to loading on the record output which mine isn't as yet).

Seriously, give the combo a try. If you don't like the sound, then at least you can say you don't like it from personal experience And hearing it for yourself is always better than reading what idiots like me say online...

I do still maintain that the current range of Glenn's preamps can be readily used with most power amps out there. Whether you'd want to is of course, another matter and this is where personal tastes come in of course. I have to say that the look and feel of the Albarry preamp is first class and I think the internal build ain't bad either, so if the latest tweaks have allowed the music source to "breathe" as it should, then more power to Neil IMO

[Canetoad]

I was listening to the new preamp today and my Bushmaster DAC seems to have packed it in.

The sounds coming from the Croft up to that point were very nice indeed.

[Elephantears]

Seriously, give the combo a try. If you don't like the sound, then at least you can say you don't like it from personal experience And hearing it for yourself is always better than reading what idiots like me say online...

Dave you've not read my posts. I have a pair of Albarry M608's. I've got two different Croft Pre-amps, one is a Micro 25 and the other is a unique modded one that is similar to a 25R. I bought the Albarry's hoping that they would work well with a Croft pre but they simply don't match well - the sound is just too thin. What you call open and spacious is in this case simply a lack of body, and there is no reason why a listener should accept this mismatch since both Croft and Albarry amps by themselves excel in having depth, body, and tone.

I accept you've heard this combination, but I've heard it at home a good few times so I'd urge you to try it again and compare with other options. All my listening has been with Harbeth C7's. There is nothing thin about the sound coming from my sources I can promise.

As I made clear in my post, what I said about the Albarry's is from personal experience. As I also made clear, what I said about gain with the LK20 was NOT from my experience, just what I heard from one case, so I withdraw that comment.

The Albarry's work better with an Albarry passive pre than with the Crofts, and they work considerably better with my Audio Synthesis DAX Discrete used as pre, but I still haven't found the ideal. With my Unison Research Unico Pre there is too much gain, although I do hear a tantalising sense of what the Albarry's could do. Certainly no lack of body there.

I can't afford the AP11, and have no way of hearing one without buying it. Your comments about the AP11 put me off initially, so I would urge you to double check and listen to a properly warmed up combination again before you reiterate the criticism.

[DSJR]

Thin, THIN??????? Compact 7's are hardly lacking in warmth and mid bass "fruit," especially the current ones, which I don't like overmuch (the M30.1's are in a different league for me, but that's taste for you )

I have to offer some defence and this time politely suggest that the current Croft preamps are generally accurate mirrors of the input signal, any slight abberation (and it is ONLY very very slight) being tamed by tube rolling and maybe a better version (25 to R and R to RS). All I can do here is beg to differ and still urge the OP to try the combo if he can. As has been suggested to me, the tweaks to the Albarry preamp may make all this null and void anyway.

Just for the record, we also used MG HD1000 interconnects as well as Dave's usual custom star-quad jobbies. The MG cables were ever so slightly "sparklier" but not so much different I could reliably tell them blind. Things have moved on now and one would normally use the likes of the MG HD2000's with a setup like this. If you fancy some DIY, get some Klotz AC110 wires from Studiospares and some suitable plugs and make a set up. I'm convinced the sound changed on mine after a few weeks use and the over-damped sonics opened up nicely after this. Cheap enough if you can make your own anyway...

Since you have the Croft preamps now, may I suggest some tube rolling? Glenn told me in an email he still likes Mullards, which have a warmer tone I think than the valves he supplies. Not sure when I'll be venturing over Dave's way (probably the Christmas hols if that's ok with Alex), but I promise to get this combo going again to confirm both our viewpoints. happy to apologise if I've shot my mouth off yet again - gulp-.....

[Elephantears]

I have tube rolled with interesting results. I love Croft pre-amps and hope to always have one (or two) in my house for the rest of my years. They sound great with all the Croft power amps I've tried, and I'm sure there are plenty of other power amps they will suit nicely, but sorry, not the Albarrys if you want to get the best from both parties.

The one time I heard a decent match of this kind was with a 25RS and the Albarry's and a pair of Auidonote ANJ's. That was pretty good.

[Canetoad]

I'm currently listening to it as delivered from Darren (Kininigin) with a set of JAN GE 5751's in it. I have it playing through the power amp stage of my NAD C372 using an MG HD1000 cable.

Dave, I have a Klotz cable using Neutrik profi plugs around somewhere. I might try that at some point.I would also like to fit a set of Eichman silver bullets to the MG cable and try that.

Initial impressions? Well, I can honestly say it's the best I've ever heard my system sound! The bass is just so deep and tight with the Croft! I had a problem with boom in my system. I tried to solve it by placing granite chopping boards under the speakers (suspended floor covered with carpet) but, while this tightened up the bass, it made the mids a bit shouty. I thought the problem was with the speakers but with the Croft a lot of it has disappeared now.

I also love what the Croft does with piano and acoustic guitar. Wow! So much detail and yet the music is still so fluid. I'm not very good at describing what I hear but the best way I can put it is the Croft reproduces the music just like any other pre but it somehow manages to add emotion to it, which brings the sound to a whole new level for me!

Of course, now I have a real dilemma. I want more! I'm still not sure what to do about a power amp so I'll continue using the NAD and relistening to my music collection and contemplate what to replace it with.

I can't wait to get my turntable back into my system and listen to some vinyl through the Croft phono stage.

[kininigin]

Glad you are enjoying it bernie!!

What tt do you have and what speakers are you using,if you don't mind me asking?

Have you got your bushmaster working?

[Canetoad]

I have an SL-1210 and a Pioneer PL-71.

The speakers are an MTM style kit using Vifa drivers I built back in '98. I still have to update the crossovers in them, which should bring further improvements.

I'm sending the Bushmaster off to Stan for a checkup. I'm spoilt for choice, I'm currently using an AN DAC Zero, which does seem to go well with the Croft.

[DSJR]

I have no idea on this, but gut instinct tells me that a copper based cable such as the MG one, really ought to have copper based plugs on the end (?) I'm really not sure about all these different materials being used, but since I'm not an engineer, I don't know what kind of electrical situations are created with silver plating vs. solid silver terminating cartridges and speakers with hundreds of feet of annealed? COPPER wire.. I know some people love to play around and try these things, as I once did, but I prefer the easy route these days..