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Thread: Starting Streaming

  1. #1
    Join Date: Oct 2012

    Location: York, UK

    Posts: 97
    I'm Simon.

    Default Starting Streaming

    This is sort of following on from the thread that's going at the moment about the future of standalone CDPs. It's got me thinking about what I should be doing next

    So I’m thinking of adding audio streaming to my hi-fi set up; ripping my CD collection to NAS. I’m pretty satisfied that I understand the NAS side of things – it’s the client side that is making my brain ache.

    Wandering around the web I get the distinct impression that out-of-the-box streamers are either (a) very expensive for what they are and/or (b) tend have flaky software/dubious support/questionable facilities. Since I’m quite happy building my own PCs, it seems to me that the best thing at the moment may be to build a small form factor PC to act as a streaming client that simply stuffs the bits into a high quality stand-alone DAC.

    This is where you come in: all my PC building has been done at the home-office or turbo-gaming end of the spectrum, so I’m quite up to date with what is what for maximum performance. Where I’m all at sea is in understanding state of the art at the small-form-factor low-power silent-PC end of things What I think I want is simply a small box that only does audio streaming and which sits minding its own business on the hi-fi rack.

    So, if I want to build such a beast, what foundational components should I be looking at? It looks as though Micro-ITX is the way to go, but what chipset? Intel H77 seems to be out, but are there low power CPUs to plug into it? Or should I be looking at semi-built barebones kit such as a Shuttle or a Zotac?

    Opinions (and flaming) welcomed.

  2. #2
    Join Date: Apr 2009

    Location: Sheffield

    Posts: 2,026
    I'm Confused.

    Default

    Be careful about welcoming flaming, there are some very skillful practitioners on here but they don't get the opportunity to practice their skills very often so inviting them might prove too tempting to some .
    I can't add anything much to this but I too would be interested in opinions. I recently built my own HTPC under advice from an expert and I used MoBo ASUS P8H67-V with sound card ASUS Xonar Essence PCI card. I can advise that I am very happy with the SQ but it may not be applicable to your requirements.
    Cheers,
    Dave.
    DaveK.

    My System:
    Power: Belkin PF40, Custom.hifi.cables Hydra and DC PSUs.
    Sources: Self built HTPC with Xonar ST sound card, NAD T585 multi disc player, Sony BDP-S350, Squeezebox Touch, Techncs SL1210 (mod'd) + Nagaoka MP30, Thomson Sky HD box.
    Amps etc.: 2 x Mini-T amps, MF-X10D Valve buffer clone, StanDAC 7520/Caiman (mod'd).
    Speakers: Mission 774s with added super tweeters
    Cables: best I can afford and likely to change except Homar's RF attenuated co-ax's and Mark Grant USB and HDMI cables. I also like silver i/cs and speaker cable.

  3. #3
    Join Date: Aug 2011

    Location: Bacau, Romania

    Posts: 1,215
    I'm Bob.

    Default

    Lots of solutions from laptop to BR player to silent server...
    Mark - http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=18323
    Brian/Gary - http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=18860
    Search the site and Tim or Martin's machine etc will also give some food for thought...

  4. #4
    Join Date: Feb 2011

    Location: South Wales

    Posts: 7,487
    I'm the'greatunwashed'.

    Default

    Personally Simon IMO what Dave has just described is over the top for an audio server, however in fairness he said it was designed as an HTPC, but even then I wouldn't have used an Asus P8H67-V. I would use an atom board with an inbuilt NVIDEA ION for HD video playback, more power efficient, cheaper, smaller footprint and can be run passively - but each to their own.

    If you want to go down the Windows route this should be digested and considered;
    http://www.computeraudiophile.com/co...rver-caps-v20/

    If you want Linix consider this;
    http://linux.voyage.hk/voyage-mpd
    http://store.voyage.hk/KMPD2h.php?id=72

    A variant is in use by Keiths;
    http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=21573

    Some good reading here;
    http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/



    EDIT:
    Simon, with regard to the CAPS in the first link, if you use this as a framework you can build a cheap, low powered and silent server that will suit most popular applications on the Windows platform - just pick the bits that apply. But IMO your server should be a low power CPU (atom is popular for Windows) and the O/S drive should be SSD. I would advise experimenting with either a NAS, internal/external HDD for your music library as there is divided opinion here on which sounds best?
    Win7 or 8 it now seems paired with JRiver is one of the most popular, but try the other media players and make up your own mind.
    A lot of the items mentioned in CAPS have been sourced in the US, but mini-ITX atom based motherboards are available in many differing flavours, just depends on what inputs/outputs you deem applicable to your build, these have been mentioned previously and are a good source of information & boards http://www.mini-itx.com/store/?c=2.
    This combination is at the moment flavour of the month amongst computer audiophiles (I hate that phrase) file based audio enthusiasts: Win8 + JPlay + JRiver running on a lower power mini-ITX atom board > DAC of your choice.

    There's lots to choose from in fact its becoming a labyrinth as it gains in popularity. You can search through the forum using the search term 'music server' and lots of information will be available
    Last edited by Tim; 18-11-2012 at 15:37. Reason: Additional information added.
    "People will hear what you tell them to hear" - Thomas Edison

  5. #5
    Join Date: Oct 2012

    Location: York, UK

    Posts: 97
    I'm Simon.

    Default

    Thanks for all the fascinating links!

    I suppose, looking at the Computer Audiophile Pocket Server as a paradigm for this sort of thing, my basic question is this: if I was building a CAPS now, what would be today's equivalent motherboard/processor combination to that used in CAPS 2.0? The latter was designed and built back in the stone age of early 2011 after all

    Seriously, one of the things that is moving on fast at the moment in the computer industry is the low power/high performance end of the spectrum, so i'd like to understand what I get for how much - and then I can compare it with a solution like Keith's which seems to have been made of a bag of old bits. Since I have quite a few old bits lying around the latter may be the wisest course!

  6. #6
    Join Date: Feb 2011

    Location: South Wales

    Posts: 7,487
    I'm the'greatunwashed'.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eremite View Post
    my basic question is this: if I was building a CAPS now, what would be today's equivalent motherboard/processor combination to that used in CAPS 2.0? The latter was designed and built back in the stone age of early 2011 after all
    That really depends on what your chain is going to be, as each board has differing positives and negatives. I am assembling my third server and chose an Intel DN2800MT, which is becoming very popular - http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f1...48/index4.html

    I'm afraid that is a choice you are going to have to research and decide on yourself, as it can depend on what DAC you choose, if you need USB or S/PDIF, or both, will it be headless (recommended) or need DVI/HDMI, how you are going to power it, remote controller, purely audio functionality or multi-purpose and the form factor? There isn't really a 'one size fits all' answer I'm afraid and it's going to require an investment of time to get it right. I have spent nearly two years and I'm now on my third build. It all depends on how high you set the bar in SQ really? You are going to spend a lot less than buying a NAIM but the trade off is it's going to need work on your part, unless you follow the CAPS route to the letter.

    However, 'the majority' choose lower powered atom boards for Windows applications. Linux requires even less and ALIX boards are popular. What Keiths has put together for around £100 is particularly impressive and as a start point, if you are comfortable with Linux, is what I would look at if I was starting out for the first time
    Last edited by Tim; 18-11-2012 at 15:41.
    "People will hear what you tell them to hear" - Thomas Edison

  7. #7
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: Down South

    Posts: 2,413
    I'm Neal.

    Default

    You could start with a cheap netbook to get you going and to see if theres merit in taking things further. Use one of the many software players the guys on here recommend and used a USB to SPDIF converter to your DAC and perhaps an isolator for it as well. If you like it then go the whole hog if you think you'll get more out of it.
    Listening in a Foo free Zone...

    Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

  8. #8
    Join Date: Feb 2011

    Location: South Wales

    Posts: 7,487
    I'm the'greatunwashed'.

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    That's very good advice actually Neal and exactly where I started, I built up in stages over time, before I committed to it fully. I didn't fancy ripping over 2,000 CD's until I was totally sure it was the right road to go down. As we have seen here a lot don't either like the idea, or don't take to it when they try it, you need to be sure its right for you. I took a netbook, foobar2000 and a DAC around a whole bunch of dealers trying different combinations out, which is where I heard the Bryston BDP-1 and Bryston DAC. At that stage I hadn't spent a dime as I had the netbook and DAC already. I compared the notebook to many high-end CDPs and streamers and a common theme arose, in that the void was small regarding SQ, but the price differences were significant.

    Wise words from Neal there Simon.

    Final thought have you heard many streamers/servers Simon and do you like how they sound? If the answer is no I haven't heard many, do that first
    "People will hear what you tell them to hear" - Thomas Edison

  9. #9
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Coventry

    Posts: 3,039
    I'm Will.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NRG View Post
    You could start with a cheap netbook to get you going and to see if theres merit in taking things further. Use one of the many software players the guys on here recommend and used a USB to SPDIF converter to your DAC and perhaps an isolator for it as well. If you like it then go the whole hog if you think you'll get more out of it.
    Good advice...

    Or even any old laptop you have knocking around, the big effort is ripping your collection, and establishing if it's the sort of effort you want to make...

    Not that it's hard, one just needs to be a bit more methodical

    Once you've got a FLAC collection then other options might be worth considering, but a decent laptop/PC with a USB DAC is a nice way to dip your toe in the water...

    If you're comfortable with a NAS all the better, your collection is then available everywhere in the house...
    Cheers, Will

  10. #10
    Join Date: Aug 2011

    Location: Bacau, Romania

    Posts: 1,215
    I'm Bob.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WAD62 View Post
    ... even any old laptop you have knocking around....

    Once you've got a FLAC collection then other options might be worth considering, but a decent laptop/PC with a USB DAC is a nice way to dip your toe in the water...

    If you're comfortable with a NAS all the better, your collection is then available everywhere in the house...
    If file based does suit, get onto the ripping and tagging, AND BACK IT UP !!!

    Technically older machines are quite capable, but they may not necessarily be so clean sonically, which is where many critics point to the SMPS, occasionally correctly, more usually through habit.
    eg - I changed out the PSU on a XP machine for that reason and it made no difference. Only after hooking up the linear it became apparent it was switching noise on the board I was hearing not the PSU. The HTPC got the new PSU, the linear went back on the workbench. No loss.

    If the idea of a headless build suits or a HTPC appeals, newer motherboards are very much quieter and better designed than their predecessors with lower power demands. Good quality SMPS are widely available, even though to some the concept remains heresy unless installed in exotic kit...

    Neal and Tim (and Will) have suggested a Netbook (laptop), and they are relatively cheap these days. Do your research on the machines with others using them for your purpose (Spdif/USB/"), and you will limit the pitfalls....

    I wonder Tim, were you to revisit the journey around the dealers armed with your new machine and setup rather than the netbook, how much your observation on "the void was small regarding SQ" would change....

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