+ Reply to Thread
Page 322 of 540 FirstFirst ... 222272312320321322323324332372422 ... LastLast
Results 3,211 to 3,220 of 5394

Thread: Pet Hates........or FFS

  1. #3211
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,779
    I'm Martin.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by walpurgis View Post
    That worked in the post war years until the mid sixties, then things got a bit more liberal.
    The demand for cocaine and cannabis wasn't there like it is now though. It's a black market in the tens of billions now. The tax revenue from legalising it would make North Sea oil look like a ten shilling postal order. We could be like Brunei.

    But the same attitude to policing prevailed in the past, which was all about knowing who the wrong 'uns were and keeping a lid on them. No-one ever thought that one day they would have locked up all the scrotes and crime would stop. I've never met a copper who thought there was a solution to it all that would make him redundant. And you'd think they would know if there was one.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  2. #3212
    Join Date: Dec 2017

    Location: Manchester

    Posts: 359
    I'm John.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Minstrel SE View Post
    Well Yes buts its the more grounded bohemian section of the working class that dont have the answers to these deep rooted issues. Her heart was in the right place but I dont think she knows what a job she has on. How does she reach out to them because they will take kindness as a sign of weakness as I have seen in the help and community centres. Just as their parents did they invert everything to a them and us situation. Really many of them are clinically depressed and get nasty and drug addled with it

    I like to see the good in people but Ive seen pure evil in these gangs. Look at these scooter gangs around London who will vehicle jack, mug and knife people without a second thought.

    Ok they are growing up in twisted families with no positive rolemodels but I dont see it as a full excuse for the things they get up to. They dont have the same set of boundaries or fears. Want it and they will take it. I dont buy that there is nuffink to do but they just seem so twisted up. A good guess is their parents are pretty twisted up and may never have worked. Thay hate the police and seem to live in this twilight world where drugs and crime make work for idle hands.

    It is feral and they are completely out of control. Worse still, the deterrents and punishments seem weak and ineffective.

    I dont know if there are any excuses for them. I didnt have much growing up and I got what my dad could afford on birthdays and christmas. I didnt go stealing and causing mayhem

    I dont know if Martin is trying to suggest national service but I feel they do need some strict discipline if thats semi borstal or not. They do need some environment to make them proud of a daily routine or is that too easy to say? The hope one day is that they grow up and see the light but do they ever?
    I grew up with lots of people like the ones you describe and I am pretty convinced that most of their behaviour is genetic. The culture then follows on from that and helps to perpetuate the normality of it all. The thing I could never accept in the rough places I have lived is the total indifference to violence and crime. And I think the only thing that will get you out of that environment is your own will to do so. It is utterly pointless someone offering you the opportunity to take part in an art project if that's not what comes naturally to you and you thrive on danger, act on instincts and have no ability to think beyond the moment.

    I think the more sensible working class people are far more realistic about these things, and understand that people make their own decisions based on the personalities they were born with. The sociology types seem to think that everything is cultural and that everybody can be changed. I just don't think they ever truly understand the minds of the underclass/scallys or whatever you want to call them, hence my original comments.

    Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

  3. #3213
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,779
    I'm Martin.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Crackles View Post
    I grew up with lots of people like the ones you describe and I am pretty convinced that most of their behaviour is genetic.
    I'm not big on the criminal gene theory. We grow up accepting our immediate environment as normal, regardless of how abnormal it may be (and who defines normal?) and we learn behaviours from the behaviours we see.

    And what about all the people who had good educations and good upbringings but who commit crime? Plenty of them around. Just because they are not smashing your patio doors in and nicking your hoover doesn't mean they are not equally the problem.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  4. #3214
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

    Posts: 51,624
    I'm Geoff.

    Default

    No doubt the figures were 'massaged', but crime in Nazi Germany was remarkably low compared to what had gone before, presumably because of the consequences. This suggests that lack of effective deterrent may be the current problem here. I think so. Obviously there are those who will do wrong regardless.

  5. #3215
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,779
    I'm Martin.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by walpurgis View Post
    No doubt the figures were 'massaged', but crime in Nazi Germany was remarkably low compared to what had gone before, presumably because of the consequences. This suggests that lack of effective deterrent may be the current problem here. I think so. Obviously there are those who will do wrong regardless.
    Also the Nazis reduced unemployment very quickly; if you eliminate the need to steal then you get a lot less theft. We would all steal if we were in a desperate enough situation. How desperate depends on the individual. It's a sliding scale but everyone is on it somewhere.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  6. #3216
    Join Date: Dec 2017

    Location: Manchester

    Posts: 359
    I'm John.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    I'm not big on the criminal gene theory. We grow up accepting our immediate environment as normal, regardless of how abnormal it may be (and who defines normal?) and we learn behaviours from the behaviours we see.

    And what about all the people who had good educations and good upbringings but who commit crime? Plenty of them around. Just because they are not smashing your patio doors in and nicking your hoover doesn't mean they are not equally the problem.
    Yeah that's the point though really. It is in the individual regardless of their upbringing or environment. Hence there are loads of people in the poorest areas who don't ever commit crime, and privileged, educated people who do. But the poorest areas have a critical mass of people who think in a certain way, and so that affects the cultural normality for lots of other people too. My point is that if they have that mentality then no amount of re-education is going to change them. And many of them say why should they? The laws and the standards of moral acceptability are made by the ruling classes based on the values of the ruling classes. The underclass feel completely disengaged from and unrepresented by government institutions so they don't give a toss whether the dominant class approves of them or not.

    Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

  7. #3217
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

    Posts: 99,005
    I'm Grant.

    Default

    no doubt that its a bit of both; genes may well make you more likely to be "bad", just as environment and necessity can. Put both together and your risk increases, as does your potential for "badness".

    Govts across the globe have failed "the" people, for their people, and their ideals; often wealth and its trappings.

    Do-gooders invariably make things worse as they look at a problem from their own perspective and not the wrong-doers one. When they brought out the volstead act in 1920, it was only initially a success until the people got orginised in how to beat it. It raised criminality, and alcoholism, as people who would normally drink beer had to drink whisky, and not good whisky at that. insanity increased due to drinking wood alcohol etc.. Kids began drinking the stuff as they could get it easier than when it was sold in shops.
    So the great social experiment failed dismally as almost all do, because the people dont want it. Legalise drugs and the demand will reduce due to availability of good clean stuff. The kids in general dont really desire as much things that are not prohibited. Also the money saved from chasing drugs and the tax you take in could be put into improving things in the country.. of course they would most likely make their way into the pockets of the rich, but thats another story.
    Regards,
    Grant .... ؠ ......Don't be such a big girl's blouse

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
    .... ..... ...... ...... ................... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....
    FIIO K7 BT, M11 PLUS, BTR7, KA5 - OPPO BDP-103D - PANASONIC UB450 - PANASONIC 4K ULTRA HD TV - PIXEL 6 - AVANTREE LR BLUETOOTH - 2* X600 SOUNDCORE - HEADPHONES INCLUDE, FIIO, NURAPHONES', FOCAL, OPPO, BOSE, CAMBRIDGE, BOWER & WILKINS, DEVIALET, MARSHALL, SONY, MITCHELL & JOHNSTON - 2*ZBOOK'S- MERCURY BD ROM, ROON, QOBUZ, TIDAL, PLEX, CYBERLINK, JRIVER - MULTI HDD'S -

    Oh my god! There's nothing wrong with the bidet is there?

    “Nothing discloses real character like the use of power. It is easy for the weak to be gentle. Most people can bear adversity. But if you wish to know what a man really is, give him power. This is the supreme test. It is the glory of Lincoln that, having almost absolute power, he never abused it, except on the side of mercy".

    “You see these dictators on their pedestals, surrounded by the bayonets of their soldiers and the truncheons of their police ... yet in their hearts there is unspoken fear. They are afraid of words and thoughts: words spoken abroad, thoughts stirring at home -- all the more powerful because forbidden -- terrify them. A little mouse of thought appears in the room, and even the mightiest potentates are thrown into panic.”

    "You don't have free will. You have the appearance of free will.”

    “There's a war out there, old friend. A world war. And it's not about who's got the most bullets. It's about who controls the information. What we see and hear, how we work, what we think... it's all about the information!”


    ***SMILE, BE HAPPY***

  8. #3218
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,779
    I'm Martin.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by struth View Post
    .

    Do-gooders invariably make things worse as they look at a problem from their own perspective and not the wrong-doers one. .
    Very true.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  9. #3219
    Join Date: May 2009

    Location: gone away

    Posts: 4,870
    I'm joe.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by walpurgis View Post
    No doubt the figures were 'massaged', but crime in Nazi Germany was remarkably low compared to what had gone before, presumably because of the consequences. This suggests that lack of effective deterrent may be the current problem here. I think so. Obviously there are those who will do wrong regardless.
    Surely mass false imprisonment and theft of property followed by mass murder represented anything other than 'remarkably low' crime?

  10. #3220
    Join Date: May 2009

    Location: gone away

    Posts: 4,870
    I'm joe.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Legalising cannabis and cocaine probably isn't practical. Nor is the opposite approach of introducing draconian penalties for possession and dealing. So the best strategy is just to keep a lid on it and make sure it doesn't get too out of hand. Which is what they do now anyway since they already thought that all through decades ago.
    I don't see why legalising cannabis isn't practical; several US states have done so. The line between which drugs are legal (alcohol, tobacco) and which are not (everything else, more or less) is in any case an entirely artificial one. Alcohol probably does more damage both in terms of the individual's health and as a trigger to violent crime than cannabis does. If you mean that no UK government is likely to legalise cannabis, I agree.

    Here's my favourite Raymond Chandler quote about the trade-off between liberty and crime:

    'In one way, all cops are the same. They blame the wrong things. If a guy loses at a crap table, stop gambling. If he gets drunk, ban liquor. If he kills someone in a car crash, stop making automobiles. If he gets pinched with a girl in a hotel room, stop sexual intercourse. If he falls downstairs, stop building houses'

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •