Pet Hates........or FFS

[Macca]

He also said: 'A French army is composed very differently from ours. The conscription calls out a share of every class — no matter whether your son or my son — all must march; but our friends — I may say it in this room — are the very scum of the earth. People talk of their enlisting from their fine military feeling — all stuff — no such thing. Some of our men enlist from having got bastard children — some for minor offences — many more for drink; but you can hardly conceive such a set brought together, and it really is wonderful that we should have made them the fine fellows they are.'

The British never had conscription until WW1, always an all-volunteer army. That was the difference. Although sometimes if you'd ben nicked for something it was either volunteer or go to prison. The Yanks still do that I think.

[Crackles]

Yeah whats this door gizmo ad so I can check it out. Ive very briefly lived in areas where any hifi system would last about a week in the place that you put it. I didnt have any stuff at the time which was a bonus because it wouldnt have been there when I came back

Ive just been watching a video on those houses in Stoke on Trent and elsewhere that they sell for a pound. Theres a very good reason for that because these places cant be turned around by a few bohemian artistic do gooders. Its just not that easy with deep rooted problems

This arty lady thought she could sort it all out by reopening the pub as a community art centre She didnt seem to notice all the burglaries, mayhem and trouble around her.. Grim looking mothers stood on doorsteps telling their kids to stay off the drugs and get in. The sort of mothers that mostly didnt give a shit what their kids were getting up to

My mate tried living in a problem inner city regeneration area and the first thing they sprayed on his wall was "kill the yuppies". he used to get his car windows smashed on a semi regular basis and the area just didnt feel safe. I cant now believe I parked my hot hatch there on ocassion and it remained untouched....more luck than judgement. It was a nice enough affordable three story townhouse if you locked yourself in and pretended it was somewhere else. However the area just ruined it all.

So that advert you are talking about doesnt go near the reality where they will gather outside the house and loudly announce there will be a burglary soon. Ive seen estates where a protection racket soon starts for all new occupants.

A very sad refelection on Britain and I would rather be homeless than be anywhere near such an area

All spot on. These middle class, arty do-gooder types really are the silliest bunch of tw@ts aren't they? Generation after generation, they go on these self-serving ego trips to 'save the working class', a demographic group that they hopelessly fail to understand. I do think it's a particular quirk of the liberal, white, British middle class that they just assume they know what is best for everyone else. They simply can't comprehend that there are people who don't actually want to live and think like them.

Oscar Wilde once described these people perfectly in 'the Picture of Dorian Gray'.

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[Joe]

The British never had conscription until WW1, always an all-volunteer army.

Indeed; a 'standing army' was traditionally seen as posing a threat to liberty. Plus the officer class bought their commissions and could buy their way out again, the army being one of the few respectable occupations for the sons of gentlemen (the Church and the Law being the others). The Royal Navy did a fair bit of 'enforced' recruitment via the Press Gangs.

[Macca]

Indeed; a 'standing army' was traditionally seen as posing a threat to liberty. Plus the officer class bought their commissions and could buy their way out again, the army being one of the few respectable occupations for the sons of gentlemen (the Church and the Law being the others). The Royal Navy did a fair bit of 'enforced' recruitment via the Press Gangs.

The reason they did and still do not have conscription was because the Army and the other services don't want it. You conscript someone against their will they have a legitimate reason to bitch and moan and run away at the first sign of danger, but if they volunteered there's no excuse. Makes it a lot easier to turn them into killers that way.

The whole 'Press Gang' thing has recently been called into question. Apparently it hardly ever happened and when it did it wasn't the Royal Navy doing it.

[Joe]

The whole 'Press Gang' thing has recently been called into question. Apparently it hardly ever happened and when it did it wasn't the Royal Navy doing it.

Don't tell me - it was them aliens doing it.

[walpurgis]

The rabble might find they like being put in the forces. It saves having to think about working properly for a living or finding food and a roof over their heads. Much like being in prison, which a good few actually seem to not mind.

[Macca]

Don't tell me - it was them aliens doing it.

The RN were pretty fussy about who they recruited. I mean if you were drugged or knocked unconscious and woke up on a sailing ship being told to 'Splice the mainbrace' or whatever, would you have any idea what you were doing? Or would you just stand around looking confused until someone took pity on you?

I know I wouldn't have a clue about the first thing, so what use am I going to be on a four month voyage to Australia or somewhere equally God-forsaken?

[Minstrel SE]

All spot on. These middle class, arty do-gooder types really are the silliest bunch of tw@ts aren't they? Generation after generation, they go on these self-serving ego trips to 'save the working class', a demographic group that they hopelessly fail to understand. I do think it's a particular quirk of the liberal, white, British middle class that they just assume they know what is best for everyone else. They simply can't comprehend that there are people who don't actually want to live and think like them.

Oscar Wilde once described these people perfectly in 'the Picture of Dorian Gray'.

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Well Yes buts its the more grounded bohemian section of the working class that dont have the answers to these deep rooted issues. Her heart was in the right place but I dont think she knows what a job she has on. How does she reach out to them because they will take kindness as a sign of weakness as I have seen in the help and community centres. Just as their parents did they invert everything to a them and us situation. Really many of them are clinically depressed and get nasty and drug addled with it

I like to see the good in people but Ive seen pure evil in these gangs. Look at these scooter gangs around London who will vehicle jack, mug and knife people without a second thought.

Ok they are growing up in twisted families with no positive rolemodels but I dont see it as a full excuse for the things they get up to. They dont have the same set of boundaries or fears. Want it and they will take it. I dont buy that there is nuffink to do but they just seem so twisted up. A good guess is their parents are pretty twisted up and may never have worked. Thay hate the police and seem to live in this twilight world where drugs and crime make work for idle hands.

It is feral and they are completely out of control. Worse still, the deterrents and punishments seem weak and ineffective.

I dont know if there are any excuses for them. I didnt have much growing up and I got what my dad could afford on birthdays and christmas. I didnt go stealing and causing mayhem

I dont know if Martin is trying to suggest national service but I feel they do need some strict discipline if thats semi borstal or not. They do need some environment to make them proud of a daily routine or is that too easy to say? The hope one day is that they grow up and see the light but do they ever?

[Macca]

I dont know if Martin is trying to suggest national service but I feel they do need some strict discipline if thats semi borstal or not. They do need some environment to make them proud of a daily routine or is that too easy to say?

What me? No, I don't agree with having National Service. I'm all for freedom of the individual. Where practical.

For me I suspect there is no solution. No matter how wealthy the country you will always have an underclass who live in a twilight world much of it connected to supplying things people want but are illegal. Drugs, mostly. Somebody has to do it. And it's arguably better than cleaning toilets or doing a similar monotonous and low-paid job. Although some do that as well.

Legalising cannabis and cocaine probably isn't practical. Nor is the opposite approach of introducing draconian penalties for possession and dealing. So the best strategy is just to keep a lid on it and make sure it doesn't get too out of hand. Which is what they do now anyway since they already thought that all through decades ago.

[walpurgis]

draconian penalties for possession and dealing

That worked in the post war years until the mid sixties, then things got a bit more liberal.