Pet Hates........or FFS

[walpurgis]

And. Just seen two (more) TV commercials for new cars. They all say something like 'from only £185 per month', but carefully avoid stating how long for or how much you will end up paying. Let alone how that figure compares to the cash price. It's leading the gullible by the nose!!

[Firebottle]

Plus with most of these it is only a lease agreement and you don't ever get to own the car.

[Macca]

Plus with most of these it is only a lease agreement and you don't ever get to own the car.

It's an arrangement that seems to suit a lot of people though.

[Minstrel SE]

Yep Capitalism is a pet hate of mine

Best system we know is it?. It needs a radical overhaul because the bell is tolling its death knell.

[Macca]

Yep Capitalism is a pet hate of mine

Best system we know is it?. It needs a radical overhaul because the bell is tolling its death knell.

It's just how the world works. Even in Communist countries. And always will because people are people and will never change. No sense worrying about it.

[montesquieu]

Yep Capitalism is a pet hate of mine

Best system we know is it?. It needs a radical overhaul because the bell is tolling the death knell.

That's what Marx said 150 years ago. He was talking was bollocks then and it's bollocks now, whatever 'Jeremy' or his dodgy minders say.

The issue isn't with capitalism, which is built on competition and freedom of markets and of information, the issue is with corporatism - we have been captured by monopolies and oligopolies, which are actually the antithesis of what free market capitalism is about.

The future isn't in socialism and central planning - look how well the Soviet Union, Mao's China, Venezuela or wherever else it's been tried actually turned out, as opposed to the grand theory. Mass public ownership and redistribution only works until there stops being any wealth left to distribute. (Unfortunately today's kids are too ignorant of history to have any awareness of that).

The only possible future is in a renewal the market proper - of course then you would really be taking on the new monopolists (Facebook, Apple, Google et al).

https://newrepublic.com/article/1435...-busting-roots

[Macca]

Spot on there, Tom.

[Minstrel SE]

That's what Marx said 150 years ago. He was talking was bollocks then and it's bollocks now, whatever 'Jeremy' or his dodgy minders say.

The issue isn't with capitalism, which is built on competition and freedom of markets and of information, the issue is with corporatism - we have been captured by monopolies and oligopolies, which are actually the antithesis of what free market capitalism is about.

The future isn't in socialism and central planning - look how well the Soviet Union, Mao's China, Venezuela or wherever else it's been tried actually turned out, as opposed to the grand theory. Mass public ownership and redistribution only works until there stops being any wealth left to distribute. (Unfortunately today's kids are too ignorant of history to have any awareness of that).

The only possible future is in a renewal the market proper - of course then you would really be taking on the new monopolists (Facebook, Apple, Google et al).

https://newrepublic.com/article/1435...-busting-roots

Yes I generally agree with you that it does sound very naive just to say I hate capitalism without a back up plan. I do consider myself to have marxist views because I see the struggle between the capitalists who own the productive resources and the workers or proletariat who must work in order to survive. You cant ignore the fundamental truth and there will be trouble if it goes too far.

Clearly if all the land and resources are in the hands of say 20% or less of the population it creates an immediate inequity. Many people are not working to prosper ...they are working through fear and there is a rise again of predatory capitalism and a gig economy which only benefits the rich.

I wont go into everything here but the future must have a socialist basis to it. We dont have a free market as you seem to believe. Its weighted with tuition fees, closed shop discrimination, corruption and all sorts of things to prevent people climbing the greasy pole. My do they grease that pole but its not even that as people just want some rights and a reasonable standard of living.

I believe in nationalisation for the good of all. I believe in a new system of social living payments which doesnt exclude people..

The future is a mix of a genuine free market and public ownership when needed. Its not about what you own but of course capitalists hate that idea because that is their security blanket. The corporations already own everything and they just love desperate workers.

Anyway I cant write an essay here but things are going the wrong way and the greedy capitalists and tories are largely to blame....so there

[montesquieu]

Don't get me wrong I was a trade union organiser in my day and indeed on the Scottish executive of my union back in the 80s (the NUJ, which is not party affiliated). I was also a Labour Party member back then and certainly remember the last time a few diehard sensible people were fighting the loony left.

I think there's an interesting confusion among people who try to reach for equality, equity and social justice (a laudible impulse, and which would include such institutions as the Methodists, out of which a lot of the Labour movement sprung) - social democracy in other terms - and Socialism which is heavily tried to Marxist theory and in my view is a busted flush.

These days I am a bit more conservative in my views than I was in the 80s (not least economically - having given it much thought, I don't see any practical alternative to a properly regulated market), though I would still see myself as a left-learning centrist in many ways. I'm deeply suspicious of any notion that the State should be running all sorts of things it used to but doesn't any more (like making cars or owning road-building operations), - that's not to say that broken energy markets don't need better regulation, or that the 'market' among the rail companies wasn't a total fiction from the beginning.

I also think that history tells us that the main reason civilisations collapse is fiscal/monetary and that by borrowing way beyond its means, the West could find it's sown the seeds of its own destruction. One of the ongoing problems with Democracy is that it becomes a difficult game once populations realise they can vote themselves benefits (bigger pensions, social programmes, infrastructure) that are funded from borrowing - and parties collude in dishonesty to accommodate this. (This is the situation we are in now).

Here's why I think the argument is worth having:

https://capx.co/the-communist-holoca...-21st-century/
https://capx.co/four-common-myths-about-capitalism/

[walpurgis]

I was a trade union organiser in my day

Ha. That's interesting. I was the GMB rep for a large London local authority for many years. Looking after white and blue collar staff. The gen. sec. Paul Kenny was a mate for many years. Not seen him for ages. Did a bit of 'freelance' repping too, for folk who'd not joined unions. Somebody had to do it. Many staff were intimidated to the point of feeling they'd be victimised if they were openly in a union.