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Thread: Pet Hates........or FFS

  1. #3551
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landloper View Post
    I recall William Shirer, an American journalist who was in Berlin when the war was announced, writing that a deathly hush fell across the centre of city and noted the concern written on the faces of Berliners. He also recorded the ecstatic crowds that celebrated the surrender of France in June 1940, and then, shortly after, the enraged demands that 'England' [sic] be flattened because of its refusal to capitulate and sue for peace. I think all three observations were made in his 'Rise and Fall of the Third Reich' (1960), though they may have come from his 'Berlin Diary' (1941).
    Can the mood of a crowd gathered in a public place be used as the guide to judge a whole nation though?

    When Argentina invaded the Falklands there were many such scenes filmed. My family has many connections in Argentina and they were all horrified by it. The way they told it that was the feeling of pretty much everyone. A certain type of person gathers in a crowd in public spaces.
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  2. #3552
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    'If Hitler invaded hell I would make at least a favourable reference to the devil in the House of Commons.' [Churchill, June 1941]

  3. #3553
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    So, what can we learn from history?

    It sort of reminds me of an old Peter Cook/Dudley Moore sketch where Dud interviews Pete, playing the part of an eccentric who's been trying for years to train ravens to swim underwater. At the end of the sketch:

    Dud: 'Do you think you've learned from your mistakes?'

    Pete: 'Oh yes; I could repeat them all exactly.'

  4. #3554
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    How can you begin to understand the world you live in without a knowledge of history?

    Okay, so it is perfectly possible to get right the way through life without understanding the world around you at all, or giving a toss whether you do or don't. But is that desirable?
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  5. #3555
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    'Can the mood of a crowd gathered in a public place be used as the guide to judge a whole nation though?'

    It isn't even a guide to judge the whole of Berlin, Martin. Just one perceptive individual's recollection that stuck in my mind.

    Shirer's comments could just as easily be used to support a claim that ordinary Germans didn't want war: first dismay/concern at its announcement, joy/relief over the defeat in land fighting of Germany's principal opponents, and anger at the realisation that the war as not going to end after all because, as one German general put it, the British were too stupid to realise that they were beaten.

  6. #3556
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    Now as I was saying the other day why don't pedestrians wait and cross the lights on a green instead of meandering across on a red
    and potentially causing an accident with vehicles trying to drive along when its there turn ?. Just thought I d try and lighten the mood a little.

  7. #3557
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landloper View Post
    'Can the mood of a crowd gathered in a public place be used as the guide to judge a whole nation though?'

    It isn't even a guide to judge the whole of Berlin, Martin. Just one perceptive individual's recollection that stuck in my mind.

    Shirer's comments could just as easily be used to support a claim that ordinary Germans didn't want war: first dismay/concern at its announcement, joy/relief over the defeat in land fighting of Germany's principal opponents, and anger at the realisation that the war as not going to end after all because, as one German general put it, the British were too stupid to realise that they were beaten.
    I see, I thought you were making a point in support of the idea that almost all of the German people were ardent Nazis, at least once it started going well for them.


    When it comes to WW2 I prefer to read about the ordinary fighting men and their experiences these days, as opposed to the geopolitics. 'The Sharp End' by John Ellis is well worth a read, if you haven't already. Even if you've no special interest in WW2 or military history in general. Very well written. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...-the-sharp-end
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  8. #3558
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    How can you begin to understand the world you live in without a knowledge of history?

    Okay, so it is perfectly possible to get right the way through life without understanding the world around you at all, or giving a toss whether you do or don't. But is that desirable?
    That's two different points. On the first point, IMO you don't need to know history to understand the world you live in. Up until the end of the 19th century, very few people knew much history at all, yet they managed OK. On the second point, why is it desirable to understand the world around you? What advantage does it give you? Maybe it's better just to pootle along rather than bother your head about stuff that's beyond your control.

  9. #3559
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe View Post
    That's two different points. On the first point, IMO you don't need to know history to understand the world you live in. Up until the end of the 19th century, very few people knew much history at all, yet they managed OK. On the second point, why is it desirable to understand the world around you? What advantage does it give you? Maybe it's better just to pootle along rather than bother your head about stuff that's beyond your control.
    They were not points they were questions. And you just asked the first one back at me.

    I'm asking 'is it desirable for the human race as a whole that no-one knows what happened before, say Live Aid? Or more desirable that at least a vast bulk know pretty much the bones of it back to say 1066?'

    I think the latter. But I'm not sure. I could be talked out of it.
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  10. #3560
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    I think a knowledge of history causes at least as many problems as it solves. The Balkan conflicts are so bitter partly because everyone harks back to when the Serbs defeated the Croats back in the fourteenth century. Imagine if the English (apart from some re-enactment nutters) hadn't forgotten the Civil War, or the Wars of the Roses, and were ready to kick off about the Battle of Bosworth at the drop of a hat.

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