Pet Hates........or FFS

[Macca]

Whilst it isn't a good idea to trust Wikipedia on controversial issues, the use of smallpox as a biological weapon is documented by the people who did it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_...lving_smallpox

n one instance, as recorded in his journal by sundries trader and militia Captain, William Trent, on June 24, 1763, dignitaries from the Delaware tribe met with Fort Pitt officials, warned them of "great numbers of Indians" coming to attack the fort, and pleaded with them to leave the fort while there was still time. The commander of the fort refused to abandon the fort. Instead, the British gave as gifts two blankets, one silk handkerchief and one linen from the smallpox hospital,[12] to two Delaware delegates after the parley, a principal warrior named Turtleheart, and Maumaultee, a Chief. The tainted gifts were, according to their inventory accounts, given to the Indian dignitaries "to Convey the Smallpox to the Indians".[13][14]

[alphaGT]

No one knows the population of the whole of the Americas Wildly different estimates. But by the sailing of the mayflower there was probably 6/8 million. Might be added that 90% died of disease due to things like smallpox

Sounds about right

Russ


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[alphaGT]

Yes, the way some people bleat on you d think without colonisation every country in the world would have enjoyed a glorious and beautiful history. Don't think so !

Exactly! All of the modern conveniences we enjoy, like medicine, world trade, and a functioning civilization with money and jobs, etc. wouldn’t exist without the spread of colonization. Do people think the natives would still be hunting and fishing in paradise like they were 600 years ago? Some catastrophe would have killed them all by now anyway, from some pandemic or overpopulation, starvation, etc. And what would the population of Europe be by now if they hadn’t spread out? Do you think you could stand about 4 billion people by now? To say that the Europeans had no right to invade their county is patently absurd. For one thing, here in the US, there was no “Indian Nation”, it was just a smattering of tribes across a mostly baron landscape. There was no organized government, set borders, or national defense.

Russell


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[walpurgis]

There was no organized government, set borders, or national defense

Sounds like the UK.

[alphaGT]

Whilst it isn't a good idea to trust Wikipedia on controversial issues, the use of smallpox as a biological weapon is documented by the people who did it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_...lving_smallpox

n one instance, as recorded in his journal by sundries trader and militia Captain, William Trent, on June 24, 1763, dignitaries from the Delaware tribe met with Fort Pitt officials, warned them of "great numbers of Indians" coming to attack the fort, and pleaded with them to leave the fort while there was still time. The commander of the fort refused to abandon the fort. Instead, the British gave as gifts two blankets, one silk handkerchief and one linen from the smallpox hospital,[12] to two Delaware delegates after the parley, a principal warrior named Turtleheart, and Maumaultee, a Chief. The tainted gifts were, according to their inventory accounts, given to the Indian dignitaries "to Convey the Smallpox to the Indians".[13][14]

I’ve heard similar stories, but note the date was 1763, several hundred years after the Spanish first met the South American Indians. Probably around 1500? The great plague that wiped out the majority of Indians I’m sure was completely unintentional. And as the modern world was progressing would have happened sooner or later by some sea fairing nation, the Native Americans couldn’t remain in isolation forever. If not the Spaniards, it would have been someone else, sooner or later.

But according to a History Channel show I saw recently, the Indians gave the white people syphilis to take home! Which didn’t devastate the Europeans quite the same as small pox did the Indians, but it had a major impact none the less. The Church claimed it was God’s punishment for mixing with savages.

Russ

[struth]

blankets would not be a very good way to spread it. it prefers respiratory contact tbh. wouldnt put too much stay in it

[Macca]

I’ve heard similar stories, but note the date was 1763, several hundred years after the Spanish first met the South American Indians. Probably around 1500? The great plague that wiped out the majority of Indians I’m sure was completely unintentional. And as the modern world was progressing would have happened sooner or later by some sea fairing nation, the Native Americans couldn’t remain in isolation forever. If not the Spaniards, it would have been someone else, sooner or later.



Russ

I agree, had to happen sooner or later.

[Macca]

blankets would not be a very good way to spread it. it prefers respiratory contact tbh. wouldnt put too much stay in it

My point was that they at least had a go at it. And what would anyone do if they were there at that place and time? Go up to the Indians and say sorry mate, we are out of order even being here, kill us all now.


Everyone's always under the impression that if they were back there then they would be acting like this incredibly enlightened, modern, progressive liberal. When the reality is they'd just be doing whatever it took to survive, including trying to give smallpox to the indigenous personnel.


We're in no position to judge our ancestors from the safety and comfort of our modern world. It's both arrogant and naïve in my view.

[struth]

Well up to a point. But you can't just wash it all away by saying that was then either.

[Crackles]

My point was that they at least had a go at it. And what would anyone do if they were there at that place and time? Go up to the Indians and say sorry mate, we are out of order even being here, kill us all now.


Everyone's always under the impression that if they were back there then they would be acting like this incredibly enlightened, modern, progressive liberal. When the reality is they'd just be doing whatever it took to survive, including trying to give smallpox to the indigenous personnel.


We're in no position to judge our ancestors from the safety and comfort of our modern world. It's both arrogant and naïve in my view.

Very true. People in past centuries went through hell creating the word we live in today, so that smug privileged westerners in 2018 can look back at them and sneer at their ignorance of 21st century sensibilities. Nobody gave a toss about 'celebrating diversity' when it was a celebration if your children managed to survive until adulthood.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk