New Funk turntable in development.

[FunkArt]

Come on Arthur put me out of my misery, which parts box is the cheaper looking armtube and headshell from?

I don't normally give away industrially sensitive secrets...but seeing as its you and as long as this remains between the two of us...

[Marco]

Marco.

[hifi_dave]

Arthur, if you're there - is this going to replace the previous Funk turntable ?

[WOStantonCS100]

I don't normally give away industrially sensitive secrets...but seeing as its you and as long as this remains between the two of us...

[sq225917]

The armtube I thought it was with the markings and the sliding weight is from A Vestax DJ deck, I haven't found the headshell yet.

[FunkArt]

Simon, the ongoing attack is getting really boring and I can't help you if I don't know so forgive me for being totally thick and stupid but what is the point you are actually trying to make? (A reply will be slow in coming as my Internet is down)

[Clive]

I can only think it harks back to when sq threatened to copy an idea for a magnetic bearing. Ever since he's had a thing about all ideas needing to be 100% original. It must be his penance agreed to obtain forgiveness.

[Alex_UK]

Simon, the ongoing attack is getting really boring and I can't help you if I don't know so forgive me for being totally thick and stupid but what is the point you are actually trying to make?

Simon - I have to agree - please provide the evidence to support your statements rather than keep repeating them without solid substance.

[Marco]

Yup - this bollocks is wearing a bit thin now, mate...

Marco.

[FunkArt]

Points Arising

Re Sq: Well Sq appears to have gone to ground; I’ll add some points. An arm, (speaker, amp, tricycle, whatever), needs certain basic constituents, common to others, to make it work. A headshell is indeed one of them, a counterweight another, a bias yet another and so on. I note that Sq has not had any gripes over the bias, yet thread and weight has been done on the cheapest arm over decades, similarly for a twist on counterweight, or (spring-loaded dial-on tracking force, for that matter), or grubscrew locking VTA base, etc.
It is at that point which has confused me: Why pick on these basic components?
If originality is what you are after, then one would not expect to find any on a budget arm such as “F5” (it will be available separately for £550).
Yet, let us not be so hasty, for I believe (or at least I have tried, i.e. sat down and done more headscratching than others in a similar situation, which is all one can ask) and come up with not one but two ideas for which patents have been applied for…and the headshell is actually one of them! This is what has amused me about Sq’s involvement in all this. He doesn’t even know what the design is about.

Oh the sliding tracking weight? Vestax? Pah! If you’re going to attack historically, get it right: Why have you not gone back to look at the AT1005!
What is “new” is the justification for using this method. In fact it is a pain to make up but has a distinct advantage:
Higher tracking weight (low compliance) cartridges need higher mass arms whilst low tracking weight (high compliance) MMs need lower mass arms.
This system works by increasing and reducing the effective mass of the arm accordingly! I am unaware of anyone actually assigning this property to this system.

(As for credit, recall, PT’s inverted bearing? People had been kind enough to credit me for that, thank you. BUT from day 1, I have never, I repeat NEVER, taken that credit. Instead I have told everyone openly about Collaro’s turntable, which is the earliest example of that implementation I am aware of.)

Anyway, now, at least, I have some form of understanding (right or wrong) over Sq’s very strange involvement last year over the patent spat…Hmm.



Re: Selling Direct. An interesting and complex topic. “HiFi_Dave”, being a retailer, will have his own input on this as well but here’s my take:
A certain company (with whom I have regrettably had direct adversarial contact) does indeed sell direct to the public at a lower price than other manufacturers, thereby keeping all the margin. So what’s wrong with that?
Apart from plenty, Nothing.
It all depends on your business model. What do you want your business to do?
For most manufacturers, going direct at a lower price is pretty much a kiss of death to expansion.

Apple can do it because what they sell, they can do through wires to everyone. Their wares are one and the same time, both unique (their operating system) and common (itunes). You know you need your OS and either you buy it or you don’t, or you know the album (tracks) you want, so again you buy. The sale is ended. For Apple, this has allowed them to expand this model to their hardware.

A turntable, however, is quite different. They are all the same at being different. They all play records, so which one plays better (to your ears). You, the punter, go to your dealer and compare and then have your choice setup.
Lose all dealers and how do you now choose? Competition suffers and product development risk stagnation.
For the brand, how would the business grow? Dems are still needed. Who’ll do them? Where? Prospective customers would have to travel very far; this in itself would severely limit sales. Even if you are relatively successful in your home market with this model, your exports would run aground:

A product sold in the UK has VAT, dealer margin and export margin all built in. With the internet, now, more than ever, export markets (US?) are all looking at our home price, when deciding how and where to make their purchase.
The manufacturer has shipped the goods (= added freight costs). In order to promote and set up outlets across the vast land a distributor, familiar with dealers, mags and native customs, has to market the goods and then still sell at a price which is relatively close to the UK price. Now, drop the UK price. The international costs don’t change. The price disparity is now a deal breaker.

Pressure on grey importing increases. The distributor gets the hump and ditches you and you lose all the work he’s been doing i.e. the entire regular market and this is the catch word. Regular. Overnight you become a niche product. With no long term backup, people don’t like niche. And rightly so.

A business thrives not on the occasional £10,000 sale, which is all well and nice, but the regular “boring” repeat business.
Imagine Rega going direct. Or Linn. Or Naim. Or indeed Technics.
They have succeeded over decades by having their product supported through many, many outlets via distributors.
Moreover, who would want to get involved in that hassle?
For example, I have been told - don’t know if its true - that Rega have 300 outlets in the US. Try covering that on your own!

In the UK, we lose sales every day - we are not on people’s door step and dealers haven’t supported us. Historically politics has not been kind to us and I still come across bigots aplenty. Dealers are either afraid of the wrath of certain larger manufacturers, or they are just plain lazy.

By contrast, as mentioned previously, we are received and treated much more cordially abroad. The markets are considerably larger and generate far greater sales for less, much less input from us; this matches our capacity.
It is also much more enjoyable than dealing with negative mentalities - need I to point to certain content in this thread, which, truth be told, has been a less than palatable experience.
(What is it that people take pleasure in being hurtful to others?
Is 21st century man still so under-developed? From where I’m sitting the answer is a resounding “yes” and that makes me so sad.)

Don’t get me wrong there are also many dealers in this country who have been fighting something of a rear-guard action on our behalf and to those, I am very grateful indeed. But compared to our competition, in the UK we are small fry.

That said, Funk is growing, now faster than ever before. We have just expanded our premises and taken on more staff.
This is due to our being competitive both in the product we make and also protecting our margins internationally, which brings us neatly back to “dealers, yes or no?”
We always do our best to support buyers - real or potential: If there are no dealers around, we will do what we can to help. And this has worked very well.

Re-reading this, I apologise for its length.