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Thread: Attenuators

  1. #1
    Join Date: Nov 2011

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    Default Attenuators

    (I put this here as it might be a great tweek but I've not tried them yet, therefore they're not in my system).

    Can anyone tell me the deal about these things please?

    All of my audio is PC based and comes through my M-dac (Which is known for being loud). My volume never really goes past 11 on my system and that levels really belting it! According to some, that means I've got too much gain in my system. Do I need to use attenuators?

    The reason I ask is, if all they do is make my volume less sensitive (or restore the full range as it were) then I'm not really that bothered. If however it's going to affect SQ, then I'd say it's worth investing.

    Also, as they do they as they say on the tin, doesn't it mean that fitting them would mean my amp would have to work harder than ever to reach the same volume levels I'm used to without having them fitted?

  2. #2
    Join Date: May 2011

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    I'm Paul.

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    Martin.

    They just change impedence to the amp. It depends as much on sensitivity of the amps input as dac/cd player output. Depending on values they reduce volume a bit. I have Kimber pbj with attenuators on my CD player as I could not get volume above 8 or 9 o clock without it being very loud. Able to reach 12 O clock originaly but with CDs now cut louder I am back down to 10 or 11. (bad CD's can be back down to 8) Frankly if you get to 11 O clock there realy isn't that much problem. They do have the effect of making the sound a little more relaxed without loss of detail and give more scope for fine volume adjustment.

    Paul.

  3. #3
    Join Date: Nov 2011

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    Thanks Paul.

    I'm not sure what impedance means, so am not sure I'm in the right place to understand how these things work. Do they make the amp work harder for less volume or am I missing something?

    Cheers.

  4. #4
    Join Date: Jan 2012

    Location: Hampshire, England

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    I'm Martin.

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    The commercially available ones have a voltage divider circuit inside.

    There are two resistors - one in series and another in parallel with the input.



    The attenuation is a simple calculation, as the input impedence of the amp is so high, you can effectively ignore it.

    Edit: can you not change the output level directly on the m-dac?

    Cheers,
    Martin

    Source: Sonos CONNECT DAC: Rega DAC Amp: Rega Brio-R Speakers: Neat Motive 2.

    My system photos

  5. #5
    Join Date: May 2011

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    I'm Paul.

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    Quote Originally Posted by realysm42 View Post
    Thanks Paul.

    I'm not sure what impedance means, so am not sure I'm in the right place to understand how these things work. Do they make the amp work harder for less volume or am I missing something?

    Cheers.
    I doubt the amp has to work harder. At moderate volumes it is using a fraction of available power. If your CD has above average output and the input sensitivity of your amp is high you will have a problem with inflexible volume control. Older amp inputs where generaly more sensitive to accomodate tuners etc with much lower output than CD. More recent amps often have far less sensitive inputs. Amps are often designed to reach high volumes early in the rotation of the control knob. It all depends on the combination of equipment as to how much attenuation is desirable.

    http://www.russandrews.com/viewindex...IXVLIWYINFRLHS

    The above explains attenuation clearly and gives table to determine correct amount. This was one of RA's better ideas before he started on the path of ludicrously expensive products and dubious technical claims.

  6. #6
    Join Date: Nov 2011

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    Hi Martin,

    Yes you can change the volume on the M-dac; the reason I've not identified this as a solution is I'm pretty sure there are concerns of dropping bits, the lower the volume is set (I've left all digital volume on my system at 100%, so it's completely manipulated by the single volume control on the amp).

    ***EDIT*** Thanks Paul.

  7. #7
    Join Date: Jan 2012

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    I'm Martin.

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    The reason that i asked about he m-dac variable out was that many people use it as a preamp direct to power amps, so the volume control must be pretty decent.

    Back to the attenuators...

    If your interconnect plugs allow it, you can solder the resistors directly inside. This is a really low cost solution and doesn't add another 2 connections into the signal path.

    I've done this with one of my interconnects and I bought some "hifi" resistors from HiFi Collective. Here http://www.hificollective.co.uk/comp...resistors.html

    Cheers,
    Martin

    Source: Sonos CONNECT DAC: Rega DAC Amp: Rega Brio-R Speakers: Neat Motive 2.

    My system photos

  8. #8
    Join Date: Nov 2011

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    I must admit I'm abit puzzled by this as well; I've heard it's got a very good quality volume control, but so many people speak of attenuation for it (in the pinkfish media thread dedicated to it) it's just got me wondering whih is th best solution...

  9. #9
    Join Date: Mar 2010

    Location: Sheffield

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    I'm Simon.

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    As long as you stay between 0-20db there's no risk of the volume attenuation trimming info.
    Kuzma Stabi/S 12", (LP12-bastard) DC motor and optical tacho psu, Benz LP, Paradise (phonostage). MB-Pro, Brooklyn dac and psu, Bruno Putzeys balanced pre, mod86p dual mono amps, Yamaha NS1000m

  10. #10
    Join Date: Nov 2011

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    That about solves it then, cheers Simon

    Saves me cost and adding things to the chain.

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