Speaker Cables to work best with Cyrus 8XP and Monitor Audion RX8's

[dowser]

Don't sit on the fence Simon

Richard

[DSJR]

Ashley Talks crap- Fear, uncertainty & doubt.

Ashley being Ashley James the marketing mouthpiece from AVI, who would appear to have DSJR's ear at the minute. ;-)

That's grossly unfair. Ashley spins the real truth right out to suit his products. Also, I was recently threatened with a ban on their forum and my posts deleted because I happen to intensely dislike the balance of many recent AVI passive speakers, giving documented proof* in the case of two of them and happened to say out loud that I thought the ADM9 had little to no bass (the latest incarnation appear far better in this I understand).

The "research" into the metal cone driver possibly being excited to resonate by acoustic output of the tweeter was dine by Derek Hughes and posted on the Yahoo Spendor group. No definitive figures or evidence was submitted, but I am inclined to trust most if not all of what he says.

My exposure to bad metal cone implementation is mainly with speakers where a tweeter is asked to work too far down for it. maybe not so much a problem these days, but ten years ago, the extra harshness was incredible and very difficult to deal with.


* Sound-on-Sound download of NS10 "appreciation," giving full test results of a dozen or so little monitors available ten years or so, including the AVI NuNeutrons and Pro Nines, of which I have a pair. The pro Nines sound like refined Linn Kans and the recently discontinued AVI N5 speakers are like this in direct comparison, if not even worse as they have absolutely no bass at all and a very shrill upper midrange..

[Stu @ M Developments]

My exposure to bad metal cone implementation is mainly with speakers where a tweeter is asked to work too far down for it. maybe not so much a problem these days, but ten years ago, the extra harshness was incredible and very difficult to deal with.

That's fair enough, so how do we know mine are such drivers and if so, are thus afflicted?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tim]

Sorry guys, as a newbie to this particular forum the following two abbreviations don't mean anything to me?

SA?

That will be QED's Silver Anniversary cable Stu, which won a What Hi-Fi award and dealers sold it by the bucket load, nay cargo ship load! Very 'deeeeetailed' and bright, which when mixed with some speakers (MA springs to mind) could put your teeth on edge - but it was cheap and the masses took to both its price and 5 star What Hi-Fi rating!

Going onto your original question and I know its been discussed elsewhere on the forum and I have chipped in a bit too, but I thought I might add a little more. I have just been reading the thread entitled 'Synergy' and one of the posts made by Neil put me in mind to pass a bit more of my own personal experiences to you? Please excuse the indulgence of this post as its long, but I went through a lot of pain and frustration trying to solve the exact same problem you have. It was this quote in the 'Synergy' thread I am referring too;

(1) A good example would be mixing Cyrus with Monitor Audio - not a synergistic match in my view unless one likes an in your face presentation.

Source

My system when I joined AoS was the below Monitor Audio GR60/Musical Fidelity setup (no cracks about the curtains Alex, nowt to do wi' me ).



I didn't put this system together myself, but was given it for a song by a mate who was moving overseas. I had just come back from living abroad myself and had nothing at all, having sold an all Mission system before I moved, so I was very glad of it. The speakers I fell in love with, more for their high gloss piano lacquer - they looked fantastic. Overseas I had a mixed system with some really sweet sounding B&W speakers, which now I look back were far more to my liking sound wise than the MA's. Anyway, I digress . . . After awhile I began to realise my system was not satisfying me, mostly due to its inherent brightness which became fatiguing to listen to for long periods. At first I didn't really notice it, just that I wouldn't play music all day long or get the enjoyment I used to get. So I had some money put aside and firstly thought about cables and to cut a long story short, went through the same thought processes you seem to be going through. I was also brain washed into believing the front end was the most important part of a system.

So a few trips to dealers later and after going through an assortment of cables at home which they let me borrow (some up to £1,500), I was still left dissatisfied. This tail chasing went on for awhile - I would dip into it, become frustrated and put up with what I had for a long period before trying again. My savings pot was growing in the mean time, so I then thought I might change the CDP an Amp and tried (amongst other things) an all Cyrus front end into some MA 60's at a dealers. Being a previous Mission owner I really wanted this to work as I quite liked the design of Cyrus. I was left alone with coffee, donuts and a stack of my own CD's for pretty much all day long. I was struggling with the sound to be honest and we tried all manner of cables. The most pleasing was £1,200 worth of Chord Signature and Chord mains cables and when I say pleasing, I mean you could listen to them without them grating, but nothing more than that and there is a huge difference between being able to listen to something as opposed to living with it. But I was left wanting and when I got home and put my own system on I found it sounded better than what I had just been listening too. I was considering spending around £4,000 and realised something wasn't right when that upgrade actually sounded worse than what I already had!

I gave up again for some months and also didn't play as much music as it was all becoming overwhelming - I kept saying to myself I know what sound I want and will know it when I hear it, the problem was I just couldn't find it.

So onto AoS . . . I cannot remember who it was (I think it may have been Frank (Effem) who is well versed with cable troubles), who 'suggested' I was approaching the problem the wrong way wrong. For some reason I had convinced myself all I needed to do was change the cables and maybe the front end components to reach my musical nirvana. What did these old duffers know anyway, just a bunch of keyboard warriors with nothing better to do than wax lyrical about their precious 'stereos' (I know better now..... there is more experience and useful advice to be had in here than from any magazine or profit driven dealer).

First thing I did just to dip my toe in the water was retrieve my B&W's from storage and hook them up instead of the MA's . . . what a revelation, they obviously didn't have the drama and scale of the 60's but they sure sounded more musical. So then I embarked on some home trials of different speakers (there really is no substitute for a home trial) and realised I had got the whole thing totally wrong and the old duffers were bang on, it was my speakers that I was unhappy with. Not to take anything away from MA if you happen to like their house sound, but it was apparent I didn't. They also need to be paired with a great deal of care. I understand MA now demonstrate a lot using Macintosh valve systems.

During my trials the most rewarding sound I discovered was from Harbeth, who I had not heard of before joining AoS. . . . I don't want to get all misty eyed about them, but this was the sound I had been seeking . . . for oh so long. I also enjoyed the sound of Spendor and Rega speakers, but the Harbeth's have an ability to move me like nothing else I have heard in my price range.

I have changed my whole system now and I do literally play music all day long, often into the small hours. I have a warm, rich, detailed and wonderfully musical sound that ticks all my boxes - the mid-range is to die for, especially as I favour female vocal. My musical enjoyment is at the same level now as its previous height when I had a PL12D, Trio amp and some JR149 speaker's and that was a very long time ago indeed! Reading Andrés thread about having had enough makes me think maybe I should never have got rid of that system - how much money would I have saved over the years

Take from this what you will Stu, but don't just think you can solve your 'brightness' issue with cables alone as I honestly don't think you can, trust me I tried, I mean I really tried and all I got was more frustrated.

[Stu @ M Developments]

Thanks Tim, some real food for thought there mate, I really appreciate your time writing all that down for me.
I realise that when all is said and done, the end sound is down to teh speakers as that ultimately is all that I can actually hear, and the fact is, I do like the system as it is and just want to tweak it a little whilst upgrading components in my current budget.

I trialled these Monitors at home alongside some Spendors and B&W's and preferred these Monitors but am looking to the future and am possibly borrowing some Focal floorstanders from my mate whos system I REALLY like as he is going on holiday soon and said I can loan them for 2 weeks to mess about with. Will report back if I do.

[Mr Perceptive]

Stu

With all respect, several posters at the beginning of this thread suggested looking at different speakers. Cables will not ultimately solve your problem!!!

MA speakers often impress on their first listen with their forward sound. Also they are WHF favourites as their listening room seems to be very dull, as many things they recommend are bright, especially in a living room.

[icehockeyboy]

Stu

With all respect, several posters at the beginning of this thread suggested looking at different speakers. Cables will not ultimately solve your problem!!!

MA speakers often impress on their first listen with their forward sound. Also they are WHF favourites as their listening room seems to be very dull, as many things they recommend are bright, especially in a living room.

What Mr P said!

[DSJR]

Depending on the model, Focals can sound a bit like an old fashioned loudness switch - loose bass and screaming treble - BUT - the basic good behaviour of the drivers and superior crossover blending of these, means that they can be fairly easily tuned to suit I found. Bass ports can be plugged/part plugged with foam and the tweeters, since they're so clean, CAN be fine tuned with cables and matching gear. Modern Focals may be more refined again, but this is definitely a start, since if the Spendors were too "lazy" in sound (if so, I understand that vibe ), the Focals MAY just tick the boxes.

Apologies for coming on strong in earlier posts here. It's just that I've been here and tried to tune systems with add-ons many times and got nowhere. if MA's are now used with Mackintosh, it just about sums it up, since an amp with a nice but characterful full-on weight and warmth used with rather assertive speakers is just an attempt to divert the listeners' attention away from the problems IMO.

Good luck with the Focals and hope I haven't driven you away........