A New Hi-FI Hierarchy

[Macca]

Much depends upon the amount and quality of alcohol that has been ingested.

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very good point. How did I forget that? Where to rank it? Has to be in the top 3, I think...

[Welder]

You'll have to expand on that a little bit, John. Do you mean that a digital source should be in a different place to an analogue source? If so, where?

I'm thinking Martin.

But having just read your comment about a cheap analogue system being able to compete with a digital set up of similar price; I've had to have another think coz you may be right.

But, then I agree with what Dave (DSJR) was getting at regarding the relative fragility of an analgue source.



(Bear with me and I'll get off the fence in a bit )

[Macca]

Are you saying that we can forget the source because they are all competent ?

I hope this isn't going to turn into an "All Digital Sources Sound The Same" thread.

I agree that you don't have to spend a lot to get a good source today but competent doesn't automatically mean good.

No, not at all (I have 10 CD players they all sound very different) - my point is twofold:

1) Budget sources are competent enough that they are outweighed in overall inportance by the success or otherwise of the room/speaker and amp/speaker interfaces

2) Source could be a TT, CDP, PC, NAS, or even a reel to reel deck, anything digital or analogue. Yes you could buy a better TT or Streamer or CDP or whatever but that is only worth it once the nore important issues are settled.

[Mike A]

No, not at all (I have 10 CD players they all sound very different) - my point is twofold:

1) Budget sources are competent enough that they are outweighed in overall inportance by the success or otherwise of the room/speaker and amp/speaker interfaces

2) Source could be a TT, CDP, PC, NAS, or even a reel to reel deck, anything digital or analogue. Yes you could buy a better TT or Streamer or CDP or whatever but that is only worth it once the nore important issues are settled.

I can see your arguement but I can't wholeheartedly agree as there seems to me to be a lot of dissatisfied people out there who seem to have started at the speaker end of the hierarchy. I have known people with good speakers and amp but comparatively poor source who were never happy with the sound but wouldn't change the source and sold everything in disgust.

[Macca]

It is a hierarchy of the relative importance - I am not saying don't upgrade your source, it is an attempt to define at what point do you upgrade each element. e.g if your amp does not drive your speakers very well - buying a better cartridge for your TT will not resolve that. The example you give is one where got the more (In my proposed theory. anyway) important stages right then gave up at the source. Why was that?

[Mike A]

The guy in my example was told that cdps all sounded the same and that speakers were more important. I took a couple of good cdps to his place, they sounded better but didn't help, I put a cheap pair of speakers in my system to show him that a good system will shine through but he still wasn't convinced so I gave up and didn't even laugh when he sold everything.

I think we might be coming at this from different angles. If you were starting from scratch you really need to make sure that the source is the best you can afford and everything should follow from there, you aren't going to know too much about interfaces what you want is the best bang for your buck. The best bang for my buck is slightly different and I am able to spend time messing around with the acoustics in my listening room and all the other OCD things that we do.

I think what I am trying to say is that for the beginner the old Source-Amp-Speakers is probably the correct way to get the best sound but not necessarily the best way to spend your hard earned.

[Macca]

I think we might be coming at this from different angles. .

Yes we are I am talking about a hierarchy of importance, not of spend. The speakers could be some little Wharfedales, the amp an old Sansui or A&R, what is important is that they work together well. The source could be a Goldring Reference or some mega bucks CDP if you want and can afford. As you say even with cheap speakers the quality from upstream will shine through. What I am theorising is that amp/speaker/room has to be right first of all, this does not mean you spend all your budget here, you just make the right and appropriate choices.

[Mike A]

You won't know how your amp/speaker/room will sound until you have them all together and then you will still need a good source to actually hear anything

[Macca]

Well, a bit of experience from getting it wrong does help
Anyway it is just a theory I was mulling over and have thrown out there to be discussed, I am not preaching the one true way or anything.

Like your cats btw - mine is currently sprawled out on the coffe table prior to a night on the tiles.

[Mike A]

I really don't want to think about how many times I've managed to get it wrong over the years

The cats are busily sleeping on the amps as they are the warmest spots in the house right now