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Thread: Sounds light on bass

  1. #21
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 9,302
    I'm Andrew.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Lol - well yours is a much higher quality AT cartridge, on a very different T/T (modification-wise) from David's! Besides, you might think that until you heard the difference, say, a Zu or Denon DL-103SA made, in comparison

    Marco.
    also I dont think my speakers are quite as efficient as your Tannoys, never heard any Zu or Denon's so i might just be surprised.
    SS
    CD Teac VRDS25X(Audiotuned) DECK 1210 Mat Crystal Audio Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony armboard Feet Isonoe PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/3 Stage Regs/Recap PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MC Cadenza Black FGS CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

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    Croft Epoch(Modded) AMP Sondex S100 (Modded) SPEAKERS Tannoy 15"MG+RFC Warwick cabs+ Ref XO + Batpure supertweeters DECK Garrard 301 Mat Teunto Bearings 401(Bastin) Plinth Bamboo Arms 3009/3012 PSU Eagle+Tachometer MC Ag Meister II/FGS + Ortofon SPU MONO CABLES Arm Yannis 420.5 Litz+ SpeakerPC Tripple C+WBT-0681 Ag IC Oyaide FTVS-510 AgWBT 0110Ag Phonostages Paradise(4 Box Mega-Modded) / Croft Musicmaker



  2. #22
    Join Date: Sep 2009

    Location: Essex, UK

    Posts: 3,445
    I'm Andy.

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    l have had a couple of carts recently and they both sounded anemic compared to my Stantons ( this includes my Nagaoka MP110) which is quite a full sounding cartridge.
    System; Michell Gyrodec SE/ Orbe Clamp/ Gert Pedersen armboard mod/ HR PSU/ SME V / J7 Tonearm cable/Ortofon Cadenza Black// Jez Arkless Turbo nutter B------ /Trichord Dino+

    Amplification and loudspeaker set up is at the moment being split into two groups, comprising the following;


    1. Same sources as above; SONY TAF-770ES/SONY CDP761E/Cable Talk 3.1 loudspeakercable/ Harbeth Compact7ES2/ Stands

    2. Virtue Audio Sensation M451battery PSU, ClarityCaps upgrade/ Sensation M901/Russian PIO caps with Teflon bypass caps upgrade/ JT Dynamic PSU with various tweaks/ Connex Audio 5N Litz loudspeaker cable, Impulse H6 Loudspeakers.




















    Me so horny- Impulse H6 Horny

  3. #23
    Join Date: Mar 2012

    Location: London

    Posts: 262
    I'm david.

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    Thanks for all the input guys.

    I got home late (again) from work but did have about an hour to have a play. This is what I did and found

    1) Listened to the sumiko head/at 440 cat again. It did still sound very light on the bass. Everything else sounded good ie detail, imaging etc, but very light on bass

    I reset the balance on the arm with this set up. Tracking force and anti skate set to 1.5

    Still sounded the same

    2) Swapped it for the tech original headshell/stanton 500 cart and set up the tonearm. Tracking force/anti skate at 2. The fuller sound is back with decent bass. Not as refined as 1) and sometimes control is lost at the extremes in terms of the bass but generally a much fuller sound. Or as somebody (?Marco) described it, less 'anaemic'

    (VTA was set by eye for both, I'm awaiting my tonearm spirit level to do this more accurately)

    This can only mean one of two things

    a) This is just the inherent sound of the AT cart in my set up (Something Marco warned me about)

    b) The AT cart is 'damaged'. I did manage to very slightly perforate the black plastic shrink wrap of the white litz wire such that I can see the silver wire through it. This would probably be unlikely to be the cause.

    Assuming a) is the issue then I still need to find the right cart. I need something with the bass slam of the Stanton but with the added refinement/detail/imaging of the AT.

    A cart that doesn't lose control of the bass as the Stanton does sometimes but also doesn't try and resolve this issue by just sucking out all the bass as the AT seems to do.

    Just to be clear I'm not one of those people who listens to distortion or a things rattling and thinks that's great bass. But I want accurate, well controlled bass. I chose large 4 driver speakers because I know they can produce exactly this.

    I just need the right cart!

    Thanks to all for your help
    System:

    SL1210 > Whest PS 3.0RDT> Audio Research LS17 pre> Lyngdorf RP1 room correction> Lyngdorf sda 2175 > Monitor Audio Platinum 300 speakers

  4. #24
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    David,

    Buy a Nagaoka MP200, and trust me, your cartridges woes will be over:





    http://www.musonic.co.uk/mp200-cartridge-p-83.html

    There is where your ideal balance of sonic virtues lies... Strap her onto your Sumiko, and then bask in vinyl heaven!

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  5. #25
    Join Date: Mar 2012

    Location: London

    Posts: 262
    I'm david.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    David,

    Buy a Nagaoka MP200, and trust me, your cartridges woes will be over:





    http://www.musonic.co.uk/mp200-cartridge-p-83.html

    There is where your ideal balance of sonic virtues lies... Strap her onto your Sumiko, and then bask in vinyl heaven!

    Marco.

    Thanks Marco, I would have been better off trusting you in the first place as I think you warned me about this happening

    However as I can't afford to buy another unsuitable cart I need to proceed with caution.

    The blurb on the net says the MP200 is 'ideal for classical and jazz music' and as you know I don't listen to that genre.

    Are you sure it will cope with my dance music fetish and give detail, imaging and the thumping but controlled bass line that my ears yearn for?

    Thanks again
    System:

    SL1210 > Whest PS 3.0RDT> Audio Research LS17 pre> Lyngdorf RP1 room correction> Lyngdorf sda 2175 > Monitor Audio Platinum 300 speakers

  6. #26
    MartinT Guest

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    If you like the sound and weight of the Stanton, why not buy a more upmarket model like the 681EEE?

  7. #27
    Join Date: Jun 2009

    Location: Berkshire uk

    Posts: 1,744
    I'm Allthatwasisorwillbe.

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    Hi david,

    I don't know what your budget is,but if marco is suggesting the Nag mp200 then it's a fair bit by the looks of it.

    If so my suggestion would be this tone arm http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Jelco-SA-7...item4164bbba03

    Then try to find an original US made Shure SC35C or get an Goldring G800 retipped.

    I have the jelco and shure combo and listen to mainly electronic dance type music,and trust me no issues with lack of bass Here's a write up on both carts by marco and some of my waffling http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=12745

    Just something to consider
    Darren

    KORUS CUSTOM SERVER
    TECHNICS 1200 MKII_JELCO 750D_SHURE SC35C (with NOS and NEO SAS styli)
    CAIMAN SEG + DORADO PSU
    CROFT MEGA MICRO
    PARADIGM REFERENCE ACTIVE/40'S
    PARADIGM SERVO 15 SUBWOOFER X 2


    ''The theory of relativity is a mass of error and deceptive ideas violently opposed to the teachings of great men of science of the past and even to common sense''

  8. #28
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Hi David,

    The blurb on the net says the MP200 is 'ideal for classical and jazz music' and as you know I don't listen to that genre.

    Are you sure it will cope with my dance music fetish and give detail, imaging and the thumping but controlled bass line that my ears yearn for?
    Yes, I also read that. Ignore it, as it's simply advertising blurb, designed to sell the product to its target market. 'Audiophiles', after all, tend to listen to jazz and classical, rather more than dance music... The website is hardly going to say: 'Dis bad-boy is perfect for thumpin' out some bangin' tunes'!

    More seriously, if a cartridge excels with (highly demanding) jazz and classical music, you can bet your boots it'll handle dance music with equal aplomb!

    The reason I picked the MP200 is because it's an extremely capable cartridge, and the highest 'SPPV' (sound-per-pound value) option in the current Nagaoka range, which basically means that the more expensive models in the range will only give a small percentage of improvement over it (the law of diminishing returns).

    The better Nagaokas in the current range, such as the MP200, have the 'balls' of the Stanton and the refinement of the AT, due to the extreme high quality of the styli they use, and the cartridges also work very well indeed on the stock Techy arm, therefore the MP200 should provide you with the best of both worlds.

    Do some research on Nagaoka, as a company, and you'll discover just how special and unique their in-house design skills are... Once you've done that, shop around for the best price for an MP200, as Musonic may not be the cheapest.

    Martin also makes an excellent suggestion, with the Stanton 681EEE MKIII. As such, you may find this thread of interest: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4095

    The best place to buy one is from Juno: http://www.juno.co.uk/products/stant...lus/308807-01/

    The decision is yours. Either cartridge will be a huge step-up on what you're using now. Ultimately the MP200 will have more class and refinement, due to its superior stylus, but the Stanton will give you about 85% of the performance of the Nagaoka, for rather less expenditure.

    My advice? If you can afford it, go for the Nagaoka, as overall, it'll put a bigger smile on your face. It'll also stand some significant upgrades in the tonearm department, and so it would be a cartridge you'd not need to upgrade for quite a while

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  9. #29
    Join Date: Mar 2012

    Location: London

    Posts: 262
    I'm david.

    Default

    Thanks Darren, I was trying to hold off uprating the arm as yet. My plan was to get a nice cart for now, then a psu and finally if funds allowed going for a funk firm or OL silver tonearm.

    Martin that's a good idea re; stanton 681EEE.

    I think it's a toss up between the stanton 681 EEE and the Nagoaka that Marco recommended. Having never had heard either any guidance would be appreciated.

    Marco, you have pm
    System:

    SL1210 > Whest PS 3.0RDT> Audio Research LS17 pre> Lyngdorf RP1 room correction> Lyngdorf sda 2175 > Monitor Audio Platinum 300 speakers

  10. #30
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    And you have a reply

    Here's some interesting info on Nagaoka, as a company: http://www.nagaoka.co.jp/product/index_e.html

    Have a read about their diamond machining technology - it's rather enlightening and gives an intriguing insight into the kind of expertise that they have at their disposal!

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


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