External crossovers - any improvement in SQ?

[Marco]

Improvements are more likely to come from enhanced layout in the XO, orientation of coils etc than from reduction in drive unit induced vibration which has never proven to exert a measurable effect on the sound.

Just because it's not yet been proven, doesn't mean that the effect doesn't exist!

I think you're stuggling to grasp that AoS is first and foremost a subjectivist forum, where ears will always be trusted more than measurements, especially when the latter are considered as not 'fit for purpose'.

If you can't embrace and accept that concept, Simon, (as outlined in our ethos), then I'm not sure there is much point in you being here, particularly when others have expressed that your presence, when in 'objectivist mode', is more than a little irritating.

Marco.

P.S You'll be receiving a PM shortly regarding this and your reply to me regarding your unfortunate remarks on pfm about the members of AoS.

[koowat]

I've got the same setup - Hartle's Type 24 and the original crossovers. Why would recapping the originals sound better than the Type 24?

I've bought a pair with the Type 24 and the originals as spares so I am all ears to suggestions.

[Wakefield Turntables]

P.S You'll be receiving a PM shortly regarding this and your reply to me regarding your unfortunate remarks on pfm about the members of AoS.

Can you provide a link... I'd like to read these comments.

[Reid Malenfant]

If we were talking phonostages then I'd be interested in capacitor vibration, but at speaker level, you can smash those caps with a hammer and it won't effect the output. Not unless you have some real junk in there.

So let me see if I can get where you are coming from... A capacitor in a phono stage that is likely to be in a pretty well sealed case (unless it's a Krell ) which is likely to be a good distance from the speakers & therefore far less likely to be shaken about is more of a worry than one that is having pressure variations due to bass frequencies put about it in a loudspeaker enclosure

Ok, so the phono stage is probably seeing a lot less voltage accross the cap, though apart from a cap accross the input the only others I can think of in a decent phono stage are in the feedback & RIAA stages - so at higher voltage.

Now while these phono stage capacitors might have a few hundred millivolts to deal with, I'm sure there is going to a massive difference in vibration/ compression effects etc in a speaker enclosure, like on the order of at least 100 - 1000 times as much. I mean just think about the internal volume of a speaker compared to the average room it'll be placed into

[worrasf]

Day off today so time aplenty to install the Type 24's - less than an hour for the pair - simples

Didn't even bother listening to them for 5 or 6 hours - just put the tuner on and went off to get new suit and stuff for my daughters' wedding next month (need an emoticon for "mixed emotions:")

Anyway - first thing to note -Graham did a great job with them - no snap, crackle or pops - quiet as can be.

The type 24's totally change the character of the 149's. They are more dynamic (faster) more revealing of low level detail and more "precise". Presentation is a tad further forward vocals sound more natural (only listened to Bruce Springsteen, Pink Floyd and Thea Gilmore so far). The percussion - esp clocks on Dark Side are awesome. BUT - bass is light compared to the previous crossovers. What there is is detailed, tuneful and controlled but while the previous ones didn't go low the new ones lack any slam that was present before. "mid bass" like cello's are lovely and natural but double bass and kick drum are just not doing it for me. It's like they are now a "modern" speaker as opposed to a vintage one. Certainly don't have the "warmth" the previous ones had with the Quad's. I'm liking the new realism in the mid-upper frequencies and they certainly get my foot tapping (PRaT) but only time will tell if the bass shyness is a deal breaker.

The new foams look the part I think.

Steve

[Reid Malenfant]

Any chance of a picture of the original crossover components? It may well be that the big inductor feeding the bass/mid now has a lower DC resistance, this would lower the Q of the driver in the enclosure & make the bass sound drier, or if you like there would be less of it but it'd be cleaner

You could probably swap it out & you should still get the clean mids but with your old bass...

Just a thought

E2A:- the foam now looks just like the originals - nice!

[worrasf]

From your lips to God's ear

Steve

[YNWaN]

That's funky!

[Reid Malenfant]

Oh crap, they are totally different While the new one looks like it's 18Db/octave on both legs there are vastly more components on the older version & I can't see the circuit either

[worrasf]

Oh crap, they are totally different While the new one looks like it's 18Db/octave on both legs there are vastly more components on the older version & I can't see the circuit either

Circuit diagrams for both x-overs here: http://jr149.wordpress.com/jr149-cir...or-crossovers/

Steve