Cryo Treatment

[Primalsea]

Now, if any thing Hifi be it cables, isolation feet, sprays etc ets do make a difference to me then I am prepared to accept it. After all there does seem to be some companies that make stuff that does make a positive difference although it may cost a lot.

I have noticed that some manufacturers have been using buzz words from industry and using them in their marketing. Quite often the marketing is only a half truth of the actual process or product that is used in industry with results that can be documented.

Today I found this on Cryogenic Treatment of Metal:

CRYOGENIC TREATMENT: During manufacturing, metal components undergo many processes. One of which is the process of tempering. During the cooling or quenching period of metal treatment is where austenite (solid solution of carbon and iron) which is soft, tough, and ductile, is transformed to martensite, a hard and strong constituent. This process does not convert all of the material because the cooling/quenching session ends at ambient temperature. When steel is cooled to subzero temperatures, the stability of the retained austenite is reduced so that is more readily transformed. The ultimate transformation of austenite to martensite may take place in carbon steel without the aid of subzero treatment, but this natural transformation might require 6 months or longer, whereas by refrigeration this change occurs in a few hours. Cryogenic treatment more closely completes the conversion process of austenite to martensite by cooling the metal to near zero degrees Kelvin. Afterwards, the metal must be tempered by at least 3 cycles from ambient to 300 degrees F. This removes the brittleness from the newly converted martensite. Reduction of flex within the synchronizer rings and other carbon steel components extends the reliability/durability of the overall mechanisms.

I have to wonder if the cryo treatment of cables is bollocks or not after reading this. Again cryo treatment of cables just seems like something someone cooked up after hearing that it was used to treat metals.

[Marco]

Hi Paul,

Have a look at what Mark Bartlett from Audiocom and Anthony Matthews from Tube Distinctions have to say on cryogenic treatment. I've personally had positive experiences with it in terms of valves and cables. In the right application I’ve not doubt it can offer real and significant improvements.

*But* there are unscrupulous rip-off merchants out there who will say that things have been cyro-treated when they haven't and still charge for it - there is simply no way of proving whether or not the treatment has been applied, and that is where the danger is.

I would therefore only buy cryo-treated merchandise from suppliers/manufacturers who you know you can trust.

Marco.

P.S I'll be moving this thread later to the 'Artist's Palette' section of the forum as it's more relevant there

[StanleyB]

My take on this market is that buyers are in general only interested in buying something that is expensive and has a lot of 'scientific' work done on it. I regularly get questions emailed to me that makes me wonder what they were the results of. Sometimes too much info is a dangerous thing.
In the case of cryo, the process affects the audio transmission properties of the transmission line. Removal of the carbon through rapid cooling damages the molecular structure of the metal composition. PCOFC ( as used in my digital coax lead) or PCCCC are a far better and damage free solution due to the continuous and directional casting process employed to remove the carbon without destroying any inter metal bonding properties. Once you treat metal via the cryogenic process, you have to temper the metal a couple of times in order to get rid of the brittleness now introduced in the metal. Unfortunately this requires cooling and heating up the metal, thereby introducing minuscule air bubbles into the structure. Unlike carbon, which can conduct electrical audio signals, air is a non conductor within the voltage range that audio is generally operating at in your average audio device. The results of it is that cryogenically treated material is in fact less perfect as an audio medium due to its increased level of signal distortion and inaccuracies.
Maybe it is this lesser audio quality that some folks perceive as being better.

And yes folks, this is an AoS Technical Exclusive.

Stan

Copyright Notice: no parts of this article may be reproduced in part or as a whole on any other website or publication without the express permission of the writer or the administrators of The Art of Sound. Neither is any manufacturer allowed to design and develop any audio or video product based on the copyrighted information without first discussing royalty payments.
AoS Dec. 2008

[Marco]

In the case of cryo, the process affects the audio transmission properties of the transmission line. Removal of the carbon through rapid cooling damages the molecular structure of the metal composition. PCOFC ( as used in my digital coax lead) or PCCCC are a far better and damage free solution due to the continuous and directional casting process employed to remove the carbon without destroying any inter metal bonding properties. Once you treat metal via the cryogenic process, you have to temper the metal a couple of times in order to get rid of the brittleness now introduced in the metal. Unfortunately this requires cooling and heating up the metal, thereby introducing minuscule air bubbles into the structure. Unlike carbon, which can conduct electrical audio signals, air is a non conductor within the voltage range that audio is generally operating at in your average audio device. The results of it is that cryogenically treated material is in fact less perfect as an audio medium due to its increased level of signal distortion and inaccuracies.

Most interesting, Stan. I cannot comment on the technicalities - it would be interesting though to hear from experts in the industry on this.

All I can say is that I've never been disappointed with the cryo-treated valves or cables I've had and that the process undoubtedly resulted in improved performance whenever I've had it done in the past.

Marco.

[Audiocom AV]

Hello Paul

Deep Cryogenic Treatment, or DCT for short is a process we have been using for over a year now, undertaken for us by Frozen Solid Audio. As a company we tried the process with an open mind, aiming to understand the science behind it but not being blinded by science and instead using our ears to listen. What I heard fascinated and amazed us, the improvements were clear and anything but subtle. When applying DCT to products such as CD players, amplifiers; the noise floor is audibly lower, backgrounds are quieter, blacker. We also hear marked improvements in bass definition, solidity; we did not perceive an increase in depth but bass quality is better. The sound also opens up, has improved spatial qualities with more natural tonality.

Any of the above points can be argued and debated; the fact is that many will choose to read the science and draw a conclusion without listening.

Best Wishes
Mark Bartlett

[StanleyB]

When applying DCT to products such as CD players, amplifiers; the noise floor is audibly lower, backgrounds are quieter, blacker.

This is due to a reduction in detail. The 'black' bit is what many of us refer to as 'a dark veil'. In order to hear more details, the veil has to be lifted from the dark sound.

[Audiocom AV]

This is due to a reduction in detail. The 'black' bit is what many of us refer to as 'a dark veil'. In order to hear more details, the veil has to be lifted from the dark sound.

Hello

Interesting, but not what we hear; we hear 'more detail', less veiling.

We have had several CD players DCT processed with non treated players to the same specification to hand to A/B test. The player with DCT are always notably better in the areas described. We have run the A/B tests too many times to rule out any false positives.

There have never been any negative effects; if it did not work we simply would not use it.

Best Wishes
Mark Bartlett

[StanleyB]

We have had several CD players DCT processed with non treated players to the same specification to hand to A/B test.

Did the plastic elements not disintegrate during the process?

[Audiocom AV]

Did the plastic elements not disintegrate during the process?

Hello

No problems with the plastics. DCT and hot melt glues were an issue. If any part is questionable like the CD player display where hot melt glues may be used it is excluded from the process.

Best Wishes
Mark Bartlett

[StanleyB]

I see. So the DCT process is selectively applied to certain parts of the CD player without having to dismantle the player in order to protect any part of the circuitry that doesn't require treatment. That's some fancy engineering process. Nitrogen tends to evaporate in all directions when used in cryogenic applications. I assume its nitrogen that was used, but I could be wrong of course. I am surprised that it doesn't damage any capacitors. The metal cased ones would normally implode when the inner electrolytic compound is frozen stiff.