Your views

[Marco]

To further compound how you appear to be out 'on a limb' with your view of things, Darren, here is a typical comment from new members joining AOS, from Bubba45, who just joined today:

Basically I joined this site after browsing the web for info for a restoration of an old TT2 that I have just finished. I had a look at a few different threads and was basically enticed to join because most of the threads were from like minded genial folk who love hifi.

If things were genuinely as you see them, would we be likely to recieve comments such as this on a regular basis?

Marco.

[DaveK]

Nothing personal Marco, (hopefully you know me better than that ), but why not let the Abstract Gallery die a natural death - why the constant appeals and apparent determination to keep it open? - if it was serving any useful purpose it would flourish - let it go.
Like I said above, nothing personal - you ask for opinions and that is mine - reducing the number of rooms is no bad thing anyway, IMHO.
Cheers,

[Marco]

Yep, point taken Dave. I see that as being a potentially interesting part of the form and was just trying to keep it 'ticking over'

Out of interest, what do you make of Darren's remarks above, from the view of a relative 'newbie'?

Marco.

[symon]

I think I can still classify myself as a relative newbie and I do understand some of Darren's points. But, I need to think out how to express it. I want to make comments which, without care, could be seen as especially negative and whining - which is not my intention. I'll be back...

[Marco]

Hi Peter,

Cheers. It's important we get to the bottom of this, so we can try to help. Remember, please also make alternative suggestions to what you perceive as a problem - don't just highlight the 'problems'... Offer possible solutions, as you see it

Marco.

[Steve Toy]

Symon,

I like your style.

This place is quirky. We like it that way. It is an oasis of eccentricity in an otherwise over-regulated and charmless world.

[DaveK]

At Marco's request and without thinking too long about it, I offer my off-the cuff comments on Darren's post..

earlier in the thread you asked if I could put things a bit clearer and I think I now can - AOS feels like a pub in oulton I went into when I was young - not quite the village of the dammed but a definite sense that the regulars crowded round the dartboard had a say in most things and didnt encourage others to contribute (not by direct action but more by accident due to complexity of structure, rigidness of mindset and an overall feeling of dictatorship). Some sympathy with this viewpoint but I'm not sure how you avoid it. As I understand the situation (forgive me if I understand it wrongly), this forum was started by a few very knowledgeabe audiophiles, and perhaps a few others, deciding that they weren't happy with other audio fora available and agreeing to get together, combine their various talents and forming their own forum which gave them what they perceived was missing from previous fora. Whatever the motivation for getting together, what resulted is a forum in which these same people occupy the senior positions, that is the ability to change things is resident in the relatively few hands of the 'parents' of the forum. No parent likes to be told that the 'child' they produced in their own image should be changed - witness the earlier 'spat' when one senior founder (I believe) left in a bit of a huff. It's a bit like the English language - once you let others use it changes will inevitably occur - look what the Sots (sorry Marco ) and others have done to it!! It, again like the English language,is better being used by a wider and wider population who bring new ideas, and renewed vigour, thus conributing to it's long term survival. The price to be paid is that your child is no longer yours alone, it belongs to the world at large, and all the better for it - no offence to the founders who have done a brilliant job. I wouldn't have joined, or stayed so long, if I didn't like what I see, but that doesn't mean that I don't think that it could be improved. Nothing wrong with this but it does end up with me visiting here less often and going back to other fora

if you are serious about making this place a bigger force on the hifi scene then you do perhaps need to engage in some honest appraisal of how it all works and how to get new members to start posting - think deep south inbreeding - you may end up with crooked green teeth! Not sure about the "inbreeding" reference but honest self appraisal is never a bad idea - the difficulty is making it honest and giving credence to ideas which are different to your own.

take a look at any thread on here and you will see the management team take up a goodly percentage of the posts and usually end up directing the direction of the thread in some way. There is a lot of truth in this, IMHO, but, given the way the forum originated and the truly wonderful way in which these knowledgeable audiophiles make their hard earned knowledge and experience freely available to all who ask for it, (and are actively pestered time and time again so to do by members new and old), avoiding this perception is going to be difficult. Passing on advice when you are asked for it, whilst avoiding passing on your advice when a fellow member appears to be going down the wrong, and possibly expensive path, is a very difficult line to draw. As is a third party's perception that the management team are directing the thread in some way when this line is being crossed. in the third party's opinion. (Bit clumsy, that sentence but hopefully you 'get' what I am trying to say).
not looking to criticise but as you asked I thought it only fair to respond - having been here a month or so now I am sure its got too many rooms and the titles are difficult - what are the social clubs about for instance - why have em if they are not working? - agreed - see my previous comments regarding the Abstract Gallery
just seen a note from someone about having more rooms than members and other new members have commented about complexity, one asking of there was a classifieds section and suggesting it as a good idea - no comment necessary.

I think I have been here long enough now to know this post will be rationalised away (apparently you were wrong, Darren) as the others seem to have but I chuck it in as a last ditch effort to get you guys to relook at the AOS and think about a change or at least tweak of direction.

rgds
darren

Please bear in mind when reading this that no offence is intended to anyone - crticism and opinions were invited and that's what you have got. Unless I am kicked out for posting this - unlikely unless the Management Team are not the people that I believe them to be - I expect to remain an enthusiastic member of the forum for the foreseeable future. Even with it's perceived imperfections it is still a valuable source of information and humour and also a nice place to feel that you belong.
Cheers,

[Steve Toy]

A fair post Dave. You obviously get what we are about. Unfortunately, I don't think Darren does. His criticisms are fair but along with them comes a distinct impression to me that he doesn't really get what AOS is about.

I've said this umpteen times already but the admin team here play dual roles of running the site/moderating and contributing. The two roles are not played out simultaneously.

Just a small point in the face of accusations that we run this place as dictators, how many forums have an area where members can be openly critical of how the place is run?

[Marco]

I can't think of any, but we mad-boy masochists can handle it 'cos we're thick-skinned and tough as a Rhino's botty!

Dave - all fair points. Nothing is perfect, including this place, but I think you essentially 'get' what we're about

One thing Steve touched on, which is core to our ethos, is quirkiness and eccentricity in terms of the forum's content; this is very much the case here, but it's coupled with genuine knowledge and experience in many areas, which makes AOS a first-class resource for a multitude of information on all aspects of audio. We think outside of the box, and so encourage our members to do likewise.

AOS will always have a strongly defined 'flavour' because it's full of colourful characters. We don't do bland. So those who are after 'safe' or 'run-of-the-mill', in terms of an audio/music forum, or think in shades of grey instead of multicoloured rainbows, then perhaps here isn't for you

Marco.

[DaveK]

I can't think of any, but we mad-boy masochists can handle it 'cos we're thick-skinned and tough as a Rhino's botty! I sincerely hope so - if you can't 'take it', you shouldn't ask for it!!

Dave - all fair points. Nothing is perfect, including this place, but I think you essentially 'get' what we're about I'd like to think so!

One thing Steve touched on, which is core to our ethos, is quirkiness and eccentricity in terms of the forum's content; this is very much the case here, but it's coupled with genuine knowledge and experience in many areas, which makes AOS a first-class resource for a multitude of information on all aspects of audio. Couldn't agree more. We think outside of the box, and so encourage our members to do likewise.

AOS will always have a strongly defined 'flavour' because it's full of colourful characters. I have heard the word "weird" used by long standing members. We don't do bland. So those who are after 'safe' or 'run-of-the-mill', in terms of an audio/music forum, or think in shades of grey instead of multicoloured rainbows, then perhaps here isn't for you

Marco.

Dave.