I always wondered why I liked NEAT loudspeakers - now I know EXACTLY why!

[Marco]

I agree but I would also extend that into what I would call 'dynamic expression', without which music is bland and uninteresting to me.
In fact, I would say this aspect is the major downfall of the measurements-first brigade.

I agree, Jerry - and one of the reasons for this is their obsession with believing that ALL distortion is bad, which of course it isn't. Some of it is necessary in order to reproduce the "dynamic expression" you refer to. Real instruments and voices are imbued with natural distortions, and the best audio equipment, in my experience, mimics those natural distortions, as closely as possible.

You can't just go chopping off what should be there because your scientific belief system tells you that it's 'wrong'! Objective analysis, like subjective assessment, is not a perfect entity. I doubt that any of us here will see they day when they both become so - if indeed it ever happens!

IMO, the mistake the measurement-first brigade make is attempting to remove as much distortion as possible, of all types, when designing equipment and speakers, and in so doing, within the distortion they're seeking to eliminate, stripping music of its ability to 'breathe', by removing some of the harmonics I referred to earlier (the stuff which mimics the natural distortions present in real instruments and voices), thus causing that 'soulless' and anodyne sound that you and I hate!

And the reason that this happens is because the 'widely accepted (electrical test) parameters' commonly used in audio design simply aren't a sufficiently accurate enough benchmark to measure ALL that needs to be measured, to ensure that the music signal arrives at the end of the reproduction chain as intact and unsullied as possible............. Hence why experienced and skilled ears are also needed, to help discern what our current test apparatus misses, in order for the best (most realistically musical sounding) equipment and speakers to be produced

Marco.

[Welder]

Slightly missing my point here but not having heard these speakers, or many commercial designs for that matter, certainly in a useful memory period, I would have to see if I could hear an overall improvement in speakers claiming to be tuned by ear and others who pirmarily used measurement.
I have a sneaking suspicion that a well designed speaker is a well designed speaker no matter how it was arrived at and the "by ear" bit is just some marketing chat.
It would be an interesting test.
It’s a bit like the mythical old boy who tunes engines by ear. No doubt they exists but I’ll go for a fully kitted out Ferrari computer based workshop any day.

[Marco]

I have a sneaking suspicion that a well designed speaker is a well designed speaker no matter how it was arrived at and the "by ear" bit is just some marketing chat.

In some cases, John, it no doubt is. However, I've watched the likes of Anthony TD, Glenn Croft and Nick Gorham, 'tune' equipment by ear, and listened first-hand to the results, so I know for a fact that, in terms of their designs, it is not "marketing chat".

And in my experience, they make some of the best sounding kit I've ever heard. I have no reason to believe that, in that respect, the designers at NEAT are any different in their approach to audio design.

Marco.

[Welder]

Fair enough Marco
We’re never going to agree on the experienced ear being more effective than accurate and knowledgeably employed measurement and of course the equipment to carry out such measurements which is where I tentatively suggest that some of the bespoke manufacturers are at a disadvantage, particularly when it comes to loudspeakers

I’m not sure that being able to differentiate by ear between various types of distortion and higher order harmonics for example is realistic, maybe it’s some unconscious process that says this sounds right and this doesn’t. The thing is what sounds right to one may not sound right to another so in the end it is entirely subjective.
Anyway, I’ll keep an eye out for Neat speakers and see if I can get to listen to a set sometime


Forgot to add a rather important point; this is all assuming the goal is to accurately reproduce the original recording which may not sound at all musical or pleasant to listen to.

[Marco]

I’m not sure that being able to differentiate by ear between various types of distortion and higher order harmonics for example is realistic, maybe it’s some unconscious process that says this sounds right and this doesn’t...

Yup, I believe it is precisely that - a 'gut instinct', and the ability to instinctively *know* when something sounds right. And I'm far from being the only one who has that ability!

That's mainly how I judge the equipment I buy and how I assemble my system, and judging by the results of systems I've put together over the years at the Scalford shows, it hasn't done any harm, not to mention the outstanding results I get at home with solely my own system.........

It's a skill which either comes from extensive experience of playing musical instruments and/or of listening to the sound of live music, both of the amplified and acoustic variety, and through the years, assembling countless superb sounding systems of different types.

In my case, it's the latter. 'Golden ears' don't come into it: it's just plain old experience, and it rarely lets me down

*That*, my friend, is where the art comes in which so offends the sensibilities of the measurement-obsessed pseudo-scientists, simply because most of them can't do it (or rather, their painfully rigid objective belief system won't allow them to acknowledge that they can do it) - and I find that highly amusing...!

Marco.

[colinB]

I always thought it interesting how B&W are known for computer designed speakers and yet on hearing them i found them a bit dull.

[Marco]

And almost anything that Meridian or AVI make these days! I'm sure that Jerry could also add a few more names to the list of blandsville hi-fi kit....

Marco.

[colinB]

I know what youre saying. My choice for speakers was swayed by the fact i like standmounters matched with a sub which AVI did very well with the neutron but i preferred the Spendor SA1s in my auditions. Shame there was no bass.

[AlexM]

John,

You raise an interesting point - Is accuracy the ultimate objective of an Audiophile, or is it to recreate a hyperreal representation of a performance as one would imagine that it sounded first-hand?. Not all (if not many) recordings don't sound very good. The sound at most live performances is abysmal. What is our point of reference here?

Almost all recorded music goes through a very complex, invasive and non-minimal process during recording, mixing and mastering, with the aim of improving the perceived result. Consequently I think that slavish adherence to an absolute concept of fidelity as an absolute is chasing a chimera - the best one can hope for is that you realise the best bits of the record producer or artist's intent in your home.

Cheers,
Alex

[colinB]

Most music is mixed on speakers you wouldnt want any where near your listening room.