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Thread: Mains Cables R Us linear PSU for SB-Touch: A+

  1. #1
    Join Date: Oct 2008

    Location: Glasgowshire

    Posts: 9,663
    I'm Gary.

    Default Mains Cables R Us linear PSU for SB-Touch: A+

    Being the tight Glaswegian that I am I’m always looking to upgrade my kit on the cheap if possible.
    Not being able to afford big component upgrades I always try to maximise what I have. As such I’ve been slowly been getting around to taking care of the “infrastructure” of my system, mainly things that take care of the mains supply to my kit.
    I bought a linear PSU for my Caiman and immediately noticed the improvement that that had brought.
    More recently, I bought a Belkin PF30 which made a worthwhile improvement to everything plugged into it.
    This idea of improving the mains to improve the system (and hearing it with my own ears) got me thinking…

    I was aware of the idea that bad power supplies (usually switchers) can eject all sorts of crap into the mains that can mess up everything else, and I had heard this for myself comparing the old SB3 PSU with the newer one for my SB Touch.
    With the stock Touch supply though, the Squeezebox forum guys felt pretty strongly that there was no point buying a linear supply for the Touch as it had switching supplies inside the unit – so why bother?
    That one never really sat well with me, since Ali Tait (AOS) popped over to mine for a visit and he brought a linear supply he used with his Touch.
    http://theartofsound.net/forum/showt...ali+tait+visit
    Even in my more modest system the improvement was obvious and immediate – I heard it with my own ears.
    Can linear supplies improve a squeezebox Touch?
    Absolutely.

    I notice that a lot of folk sell various linear supplies for the Touch online?
    Like anything I guess you use common sense and judgement to filter out the BS merchants (of which this hobby is inundated with), from the genuine article. Guys like Paul Hynes and Red Wine Audio have a reputation for solid audio engineering, with lots of testimonials to their work.
    Problem for me though is that this engineering doesn't come cheap, and I'm sure there are a lot of people like myself who wish to improve their SB Touch but don’t want to (or cant) pay double or sometimes more than the cost of the Touch itself.

    Still looking to maximise the equipment I had - but unfortunately being on a budget – I put the idea of a linear PSU for my Touch out of my mind. But then I noticed more affordable products were coming to market, sold by the AOS regulars and equally reputable (but more affordable ) dealers Mark Grant and David Brook at Mains Cables R Us.

    As chance would have it, David Brook had PM’d about my SB Touch software mods thread http://theartofsound.net/forum/showt...=software+mods and he asked me if I would do the mods on his Touch.
    He asked me if I was still using the stock power supply with my own Touch, as he was bringing a new linear supply to market and being the "SB Touch guy" , would I like to try it in my system?
    No pressure, no sales tactics just see what I thought as he described it as "a little bit special"

    So I received David’s new supply a few days ago.
    Here are some pics:





    It’s different from ones I’ve seen before in that it’s a two box design and it has an IEC socket rather than a built in lead.
    In my system one of Mark Grant's DSP 2.5's fits in their nicely, but it still sounded great even with a standard lead.
    I guess it's an advantage in that you can upgrade the PSU and fit your own high quality mains lead?
    Also unusual compared to any other I have seen is the two box design?
    Asking David about it he said the supply was an improved redesign of the one on his website with improvements across the board.

    The designer Nick (Lurcher here on AOS) said the following when I asked what made the two box design better than the old one:
    Well, the idea came from the fact that it’s a bit silly having a regulator that’s several foot from the load its supplying. Just looking at the voltage across the load you can see the regulator it’s trying to control it at the end of a long stick. So the idea was to try and get the regulator as close as possible to the load. And after that thought, given that I have more control over both sides of the regulator, I thought something a bit more interesting than a stock three pin reg would be called for. The regulator in the little box isn't discrete as such because it uses a low noise op amp as an error amp and a discrete mosfet to control the output. I can also pack some paralleled caps in there to try and get closer to a fast responding small regulator.
    First stage regulator and transformer out the way, final high speed low noise regulator close to the load. Just looking how the load voltage varies shows that you get at least an order of magnitude closer regulator than using a three pin regulator on the end of a wire.

    That’s the idea anyway.


    Sounds good to me, which is exactly how the PSU sounds in my system.
    I say good...it’s a fundamental step up from stock supply - seriously.
    Honestly, if I didn't like it as much as I did, the last thing I'd be doing is "shilling" someone’s kit, but this box deserves a bit of praise for what it has done to my system.

    Like before with Ali Taits "medical grade" linear supply in my system, the improvement was immediate and obvious, only more so.
    In hifi terms soundstage is far wider and it’s very easy now to hear how the track has been produced, not just left and right stereo, but things like studio ambience, placement of the performers in relation to each other, that kind of thing.
    This doesn't detract from the music, but adds to it - it draws you in.
    On some tracks it’s almost like a studio feel to the song, it’s up close and very "real" sounding but it still retains the air and emotion that drags you into the performance.
    Its very clear and direct sounding, but can be warm and subtle too - it just plays whats in song but clearer and more direct than with the stock SB Touch supply in place.
    I tried different types, classical, metal, Prog, 24/96, 320k web radio 128k mp3, you name it and it ALL sounded fundamentally better than with the stock switching SB Touch supply.

    In short (without all the hifi clichés), compared to the Stock supply it just cuts to the chase of the music, sounds more refined but with more detail that just draws you in.

    Just for the record, I have no commercial affiliation with the product or its designer, just had a chance to hear it and I'm very happy to recommend it.
    I was sceptical, and I told David Brook that, but he said just to listen to it and then see what I thought.

    I bought it on the spot.
    I consider myself foo-free nowadays and wouldn't fork out for anything unless it made a FUNDAMENTAL improvement to my system. No point side grading or getting "different" rather than better, especially if you’re on a budget.

    It costs £150 and to be honest, considering my hifi's became addictive again its money well spent.

    Highly, highly recommended.
    Last edited by Gazjam; 07-10-2011 at 10:22.
    AC POWER
    Hardwired 10kVA balanced mains powering entire system
    AMPS
    Meridian 557 power Amp (Modded) / PS Audio BHK Preamp (Modded)
    SPEAKERS
    Wharfedale Evo 4.4
    DAC
    PS Audio Directstream (Modded)
    TURNTABLE
    Pro-Ject X8 balanced output via XLR / Ortofon Quintet Blue cartridge
    PHONOSTAGE
    Pro-Ject DS3 B balanced Input (TT and Phonostage powered by Pro-Ject Power box RS2 linear psu)
    DIGITAL
    OPPO 203 (Modded: Linear PSU, i2s output to Dac) - Roon Endpoint, HDMI input used for all things Streaming/ PS5 /AppleTV ... also good for movies apparently?
    MUSIC PLAYBACK
    Tweaked AP-Linux based Roon Server into Oppo 203 as Roon endpoint
    Ipad Roon Remote.
    Apple Music/ YouTube via AppleTV, fed to Dac via Oppo HDMI input/i2s output to Dac.
    SPEAKER CABLES
    Biwired: Duelund DCA10GA (Bass) Duelund DCA16GA (mid & treble) Duelund 12DCA used as jumpers (On
    "Blackcat Cable" Chris Sommivigo's advice - yup, even with biwire it sounds better - and it does)
    INTERCONNECTS
    All Balanced: Ghost+ recording studio XLR cables

  2. #2
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Huddersfield

    Posts: 3,359
    I'm David.

    Default

    Glad you liked it Gaz, nice photos too, final version released now and happy listening. Music is Life!
    Last edited by MCRU; 07-10-2011 at 08:24.

  3. #3
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Excellent write-up, Gaz!

    Glad that the PSU is hitting the spot - it's an excellent product, designed by someone with an ear for music who knows what he's doing. Enjoy, matey!

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  4. #4
    Join Date: May 2008

    Location: A Strangely Isolated Place in Suffolk with Far Away Trains Passing By...

    Posts: 14,535
    I'm David.

    Default

    Well done - and a good idea I reckon, having the regulator as near the circuit it's regulating as possible - others do it inside so many CD players (some having a dozen or so individually regulated supplies inside) yet a certain company prefers to sell hideously expensive and rather crude external supplies costing thousands of pounds because it swells their coffers to do it this way..

    To Nick and Dave B - apologies for continuing to come across as a grumpy old pauper all the time. You see, being away from the industry for so long now, I've been getting used to seeing DVD players for well under fifty notes and blue-ray players for a ton, not realising that these are often job lots with no hope of repair should they fail in the future - chuck 'em and buy another, no matter how good they are. I know you guys have to make a living supplying the stuff, but please realise that there are now many peeps like me who have to feed a family for a month on other's monthly wine bills

    P.S. Does this mean that the standard linear supply is going two-box too, or should it just be that any umbilicals from box to the driven unit should be kept as short as reasonably possible?
    Tear down these walls; Cut the ties that held me
    Crying out at the top of my voice; Tell me now if you can hear me

  5. #5
    Join Date: Mar 2008

    Location: Halifax, UK

    Posts: 1,399
    I'm Nick.

    Default

    No, the standard linear supply is just the same as before. The external regulator needs two supply feeds to do its job so its not just a "add on the end" thing. unlike if using a three pin reg, I could take advantage and design a regulator that didnt have to get all its supply from the one voltage source. So for (say) the 5v touch, the board will get a 8v high current preregulated supply, and then a 10v low current regulated supply to drive the error amplifier.

    The pictures are of the prototype BTW, for the Touch there is no need to have the external connector on the base unit, it will be hard wired,
    Nick.

  6. #6
    Join Date: Oct 2008

    Location: Glasgowshire

    Posts: 9,663
    I'm Gary.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Excellent write-up, Gaz!

    Glad that the PSU is hitting the spot - it's an excellent product, designed by someone with an ear for music who knows what he's doing. Enjoy, matey!

    Marco.
    Just like your Supra Trico digi cable Marco, fit n forget.
    (which suits me!)

    Getting closer now to a "decent" hifi eh?
    AC POWER
    Hardwired 10kVA balanced mains powering entire system
    AMPS
    Meridian 557 power Amp (Modded) / PS Audio BHK Preamp (Modded)
    SPEAKERS
    Wharfedale Evo 4.4
    DAC
    PS Audio Directstream (Modded)
    TURNTABLE
    Pro-Ject X8 balanced output via XLR / Ortofon Quintet Blue cartridge
    PHONOSTAGE
    Pro-Ject DS3 B balanced Input (TT and Phonostage powered by Pro-Ject Power box RS2 linear psu)
    DIGITAL
    OPPO 203 (Modded: Linear PSU, i2s output to Dac) - Roon Endpoint, HDMI input used for all things Streaming/ PS5 /AppleTV ... also good for movies apparently?
    MUSIC PLAYBACK
    Tweaked AP-Linux based Roon Server into Oppo 203 as Roon endpoint
    Ipad Roon Remote.
    Apple Music/ YouTube via AppleTV, fed to Dac via Oppo HDMI input/i2s output to Dac.
    SPEAKER CABLES
    Biwired: Duelund DCA10GA (Bass) Duelund DCA16GA (mid & treble) Duelund 12DCA used as jumpers (On
    "Blackcat Cable" Chris Sommivigo's advice - yup, even with biwire it sounds better - and it does)
    INTERCONNECTS
    All Balanced: Ghost+ recording studio XLR cables

  7. #7
    Join Date: Oct 2008

    Location: Glasgowshire

    Posts: 9,663
    I'm Gary.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DSJR View Post
    Well done - and a good idea I reckon, having the regulator as near the circuit it's regulating as possible - others do it inside so many CD players (some having a dozen or so individually regulated supplies inside) yet a certain company prefers to sell hideously expensive and rather crude external supplies costing thousands of pounds because it swells their coffers to do it this way..

    To Nick and Dave B - apologies for continuing to come across as a grumpy old pauper all the time. You see, being away from the industry for so long now, I've been getting used to seeing DVD players for well under fifty notes and blue-ray players for a ton, not realising that these are often job lots with no hope of repair should they fail in the future - chuck 'em and buy another, no matter how good they are. I know you guys have to make a living supplying the stuff, but please realise that there are now many peeps like me who have to feed a family for a month on other's monthly wine bills

    P.S. Does this mean that the standard linear supply is going two-box too, or should it just be that any umbilicals from box to the driven unit should be kept as short as reasonably possible?
    I hear ya Dave,
    pennies are tight here too and I wouldn't change anything now unless it fundamentally better AND doesn't cost silly money.

    This thing works well and is good value for money in my book.
    AC POWER
    Hardwired 10kVA balanced mains powering entire system
    AMPS
    Meridian 557 power Amp (Modded) / PS Audio BHK Preamp (Modded)
    SPEAKERS
    Wharfedale Evo 4.4
    DAC
    PS Audio Directstream (Modded)
    TURNTABLE
    Pro-Ject X8 balanced output via XLR / Ortofon Quintet Blue cartridge
    PHONOSTAGE
    Pro-Ject DS3 B balanced Input (TT and Phonostage powered by Pro-Ject Power box RS2 linear psu)
    DIGITAL
    OPPO 203 (Modded: Linear PSU, i2s output to Dac) - Roon Endpoint, HDMI input used for all things Streaming/ PS5 /AppleTV ... also good for movies apparently?
    MUSIC PLAYBACK
    Tweaked AP-Linux based Roon Server into Oppo 203 as Roon endpoint
    Ipad Roon Remote.
    Apple Music/ YouTube via AppleTV, fed to Dac via Oppo HDMI input/i2s output to Dac.
    SPEAKER CABLES
    Biwired: Duelund DCA10GA (Bass) Duelund DCA16GA (mid & treble) Duelund 12DCA used as jumpers (On
    "Blackcat Cable" Chris Sommivigo's advice - yup, even with biwire it sounds better - and it does)
    INTERCONNECTS
    All Balanced: Ghost+ recording studio XLR cables

  8. #8
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gazjam View Post
    Just like your Supra Trico digi cable Marco, fit n forget.
    (which suits me!)

    Getting closer now to a "decent" hifi eh?
    Lol! I'm sure you always had one, dude, but these 'final touches' you've added serve to turn what was once good into what is now great!

    Marco.

    P.S The Trico just lets the music through as unsullied as possible... Don't underestimate the effect of those solid-silver WBTs, though!
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  9. #9
    Join Date: Oct 2008

    Location: Glasgowshire

    Posts: 9,663
    I'm Gary.

    Default

    agreed marco...

    just need to get a more revealing pair of speakers so I can hear it all properly

    next on the list..
    AC POWER
    Hardwired 10kVA balanced mains powering entire system
    AMPS
    Meridian 557 power Amp (Modded) / PS Audio BHK Preamp (Modded)
    SPEAKERS
    Wharfedale Evo 4.4
    DAC
    PS Audio Directstream (Modded)
    TURNTABLE
    Pro-Ject X8 balanced output via XLR / Ortofon Quintet Blue cartridge
    PHONOSTAGE
    Pro-Ject DS3 B balanced Input (TT and Phonostage powered by Pro-Ject Power box RS2 linear psu)
    DIGITAL
    OPPO 203 (Modded: Linear PSU, i2s output to Dac) - Roon Endpoint, HDMI input used for all things Streaming/ PS5 /AppleTV ... also good for movies apparently?
    MUSIC PLAYBACK
    Tweaked AP-Linux based Roon Server into Oppo 203 as Roon endpoint
    Ipad Roon Remote.
    Apple Music/ YouTube via AppleTV, fed to Dac via Oppo HDMI input/i2s output to Dac.
    SPEAKER CABLES
    Biwired: Duelund DCA10GA (Bass) Duelund DCA16GA (mid & treble) Duelund 12DCA used as jumpers (On
    "Blackcat Cable" Chris Sommivigo's advice - yup, even with biwire it sounds better - and it does)
    INTERCONNECTS
    All Balanced: Ghost+ recording studio XLR cables

  10. #10
    Join Date: Nov 2008

    Location: Valley of the Hazels

    Posts: 9,139
    I'm AMusicFanNotAnAudiophile.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gazjam View Post
    agreed marco...

    just need to get a more revealing pair of speakers so I can hear it all properly

    next on the list..
    You should get down to listen to these Gaz.
    They sound better than they look

    http://theartofsound.net/forum/showp...8&postcount=15
    Chris



    Common sense isn't anymore!

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