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Thread: A convenient if unpalatable scapegoat?

  1. #1
    Join Date: May 2008

    Location: Southern England

    Posts: 2,990
    I'm Howard.

    Default A convenient if unpalatable scapegoat?

    It’s my belief that many sectors of the audiophile industry (and I include the audio magazines in this) will use the UK financial crisis as camouflage or indeed scapegoat for what was and remains their inadequate business models.

    Am I being too harsh - or realistic - or both?

    ---//---
    Well, hello.

  2. #2
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Central England

    Posts: 2,932

    Default

    You are right to a point. The hi-fi industry was already in decline before this economic crisis even began. The current crisis is simply exacerbating the situation as more second-hand items flood the market not from upgraders but from people desperate for cash to pay bills.

    I was speaking to the owner of a hi-fi shop in Tours, France back in April. He told me that today he is the only hi-fi retailer in Tours. Some 25 years ago there were 17. Now that's a big decline!

    There are a couple of factors in the demise of two channel audio:

    1) Consumers having more choice of things to spend their disposable income on other than hi-fi compared to 20 years ago. These include computers and home cinema as well as the fact that for most folks an iPod is good enough to do the job as it is certainly better than the muffled sound of the compact cassette tape previously used in portable audio. Once portable audio itself has reached an acceptable level of fidelity for most people why would anyone other than a small minority of enthusiasts bother with something that takes up considerable space in their living room?

    2) The economic crisis resulting in less disposable income and a lack of consumer confidence needed to buy big-ticket luxury items.

    As the consumer exuberance wanes and is replaced by a genuine desire to get the best possible sound/£ the second-hand market should begin to steady as fewer new purchases from big brand names are made. Fewer new purchases results in fewer items hitting the s/h market.

    The only problem is that the enthusiasm for sound quality ahead of making lifestyle statements is what stigmatises the industry putting off a lot of new consumer entrants and this takes us back to iPods and ADM Bloody Nines.

    The decline of this industry will continue long after the current economic crisis unless we can remove some of the stigma associated with owning kit that takes up lots of space can become obsessive and the wife thinks is ugly.

  3. #3
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    for most folks an iPod is good enough to do the job as it is certainly better than the muffled sound of the compact cassette tape previously used in portable audio.
    ROFL!

    I beg to differ. You've obviously never owned a Sony Walkman Pro (and played music on it superbly recorded from your system at home) or owned a top-notch separates tape deck such as a Nakamichi. Nasty, cheap, pre-recorded tapes were like that but not home recordings on good quality chrome or metal tapes. I must educate you sometime.

    I'll contribute to the main thrust of this discussion later!

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  4. #4
    Join Date: Mar 2008

    Location: Wales

    Posts: 37

    Default

    Marco, tell me more about the Nakamichis

    I have a 582 that I've never tried, looks snaz but is it?

    I've never been into cassets and never given it a spin...

  5. #5
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    You definitely should Darren, if the heads are still in good nick. The best Nakamichi tape decks had a way with music that not even some of today's top CD players could manage, never mind a bloody plastic iPod!

    These 'new generation' boys have so much to learn

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  6. #6
    Join Date: Mar 2008

    Location: Wales

    Posts: 37

    Default

    Umm, food for thought, not even sure if I have a tape !!

  7. #7
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Central England

    Posts: 2,932

    Default

    I was waiting for Marco to come along and defend the compact cassette. I know Sony Walkman Pros and even my Sanyo from the late eighties were pretty good, as are the Nakamichis but cassette listening was for most people a pretty poor substitute for the sound from the record player in the hi-fi system taking up so much living room space.

    When digital audio came along with miniaturized storage formats the main rig in the living room became redundant for most people not striving for the same levelk of fidelity as we are. Whilst the iPod is not as good as proper hi-fi it is good enough for most and considerably better than the cassette player, excepting the high-end Nakamichi and Walkman Pros of course

  8. #8
    Join Date: Mar 2008

    Location: Wales

    Posts: 37

    Default

    Mind you I have a ton of 8 track tapes.....

    I'll get me coat.......

  9. #9
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: North Lincolnshire

    Posts: 76

    Default

    To me, part of the problem with two channel audio is the ''snob'' or stand off factor that potential new entrants find. For those of us that are ''in'' the system it may well be less of a problem, but to the newcomer it can be, and I would think, is, a daunting prospect. Just for a moment imagine you know that you enjoy music in the home, and decide to lavish a little of what is becoming a rare item, your spare cash on a home audio system. Where do you start. The high street is bare, other than the odd branch of Richers. The monthly comics are little real help, either being much more TV/movie biased, or wandering down the high ticket esoteric path.

    You do, finally manage to discover that a raft of makers do offer products that may be of interest to you, but how do you get to hear them. Well if you are lucky, you may find a dealer around your town that stocks one, or at a push two of the entry level brands. So you wander in, as a new entrant you are unlikely to be aware of the booked demo system, to be faced with having to make your booking to listen to something. If that has not put you off the idea, and a bigger TV from comet has not become more interesting, then you go back to hear. The next thing you know is that your simple cd replay system at £1500, has after a few changes of component become a £3k plus system that you can not afford, then the man tells you he wants another stack of cash for cables and stands.

    If the industry as a whole wants to try and stay viable, then a better way of introducing entry level gear to potential purchasers has to be found. It will take a change in attitude across the industry to do it, probably more of a joined up advertising campaign for the idea of music system, rather than a buy my amp/speakers thing in what remains of the specialised press.

    Put simply, get people into the ethos of two channel music systems, and they will ''upgrade'' themselves, ignore them and the industry will continue to die.
    sod the hi-fi, listen to the music

  10. #10
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    I was waiting for Marco to come along and defend the compact cassette.
    Of course, as I'm a purveyor of all 'proper' audio formats which don't pander to convenience at the expense of sound quality!

    Whilst the iPod is not as good as proper hi-fi it is good enough for most and considerably better than the cassette player, excepting the high-end Nakamichi and Walkman Pros of course
    I'm glad you've now made the distinction, although perhaps you should also add Studer, Revox, Tandberg, and a host of other masters of the art of cassette tape, to your list

    Darren, 8-track? I remember it well. Now that *WAS* pish!

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


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