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Thread: This thread won't make me popular (and may even get me banned!)

  1. #11
    Join Date: May 2008

    Location: U.S.A. Neo-Socialist Kalifornski

    Posts: 3,262

    Default

    For what ever reason the forum has been a little slow but not slower than last summer.
    I think your just noticing a trade guy more because he posts something every day.
    Why I have no Idea but there is always another thread so you feel bombarded by them.
    When things get rolling again you won't notice so much.
    I do get where Alex is coming from.
    Some posts have even been dumber than mine...
    Links to tripe really!
    Jeff :UBERTHREADKILLER

  2. #12
    Join Date: Jul 2009

    Location: Schleswig-Holstein (north sea coast), Germany

    Posts: 814
    I'm Werner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    What do others think about the points Alex has raised?
    I fully agree with him. For the first time ever (my experience with computer based communication systems dates back to the year 1987) I recently felt the need to use this forum’s ignore list, but unfortunately the thread title still is shown, although the thread’s creator is member of an ignore list.

    If I want to read the latest news or gossip, I certainly know which websites to visit. There are other things and topics I expect to find in a meeting place called “The Art of Sound”.

    Personally I don’t see the need for user names, pseudonyms and alias names, but that’s a different topic. I’ve always been posting using my real name, and if I attempted to write something which might not be wise signing with my real name, it might not be worth to be said anyway.

    Werner.
    Mac OS X iTunes → Schiit Bifrost DAC → Yamaha AX-592 → Triangle Zays XS Grand Angle | AKG K712 Pro headphones | my last.fm profile

  3. #13
    Join Date: May 2008

    Location: A Strangely Isolated Place in Suffolk with Far Away Trains Passing By...

    Posts: 14,535
    I'm David.

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    Perhaps I should resurrect the "Latest marvel" thread as I now have an original good Goldring G800 to listen to
    Tear down these walls; Cut the ties that held me
    Crying out at the top of my voice; Tell me now if you can hear me

  4. #14
    Join Date: Feb 2011

    Location: South Wales

    Posts: 7,487
    I'm the'greatunwashed'.

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    Very well put Werner and I too have never used a forum's ignore list before, now I've got more than one on there!

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    What do others think about the points Alex has raised?
    To be honest I agree 100% with Alex. I don't feel that qualified to comment being relatively new here, but I really liked the vibe of AoS when I arrived and I think that was down to the 'pint and dominoes' feel that Frank describes. People using first names and not bitch slapping each other all the time was a real eye opener for me, so I drew a pint myself and sat down at the table. I learned a lot too, even though a lot of the subject matter was above me, I still read all the posts and came to respect the core memberships level of knowledge and their willingness to share and help others. Quite unique compared to other forums.

    Personally that's how I liked it, but of late that cosy feeling seems to have gone and seeing people I respect leave or remain silent has only added fuel to the fire. There is always an ebb and flow on forums, but the final straw for me was seeing a personal message published - how disrespectful is that and most of us I'm sure will realise who the author was. And to use it as a means of trying to defend one's own poor behaviour . . . .

    I guess a lot of forum folk like conflict and 'lively' discussion with robustly defended argument, but there is a fine line between that and the insults.

    Anyway, I'm off to play some music, life's too short.

    Tim
    Last edited by Tim; 25-06-2011 at 21:52.

  5. #15
    Join Date: Jun 2009

    Location: Hove Actually

    Posts: 3,935
    I'm Imjustsurviving.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex_UK View Post



    But then, I don't have an agenda, or a product line to promote, do I?
    Funny that i typed the exact same words then deleted it in my reply after being labled a sheep, trying to be ironic i don't think so

    I don't really see why i have to answer myself to someone who clearly gets pleasure from comfrontation, i have tried but can't really be arsed

    I'm off to burn in my new Belkin speaker cables with the rest of the flock.

    As Tim Says lifes to short,
    Jon


    A person who never made a mistake never tried anything new.




    Set up
    Lafayette el84 power amp , Audio note M1 pre , Tannoy Sterlings, Garrard 301 , SME 3012 , puresound P10, Ortofon SPU, Cambridge CXN streamer
    Micro mega Duo 3 cd transport ,

  6. #16
    Join Date: Apr 2009

    Location: Near Saffron Walden, Essex

    Posts: 7,087
    I'm Dave.

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    I joined AOS because it is/was a friendly, civilised, informative place to be but recently it has become too confrontational and aggressive for me. I am now wary of where and what I post and I'm visiting less and less.

  7. #17
    Join Date: Jun 2010

    Location: Scotland

    Posts: 1,940
    I'm Tom.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatGig View Post

    Personally that's how I liked it, but of late that cosy feeling seems to have gone and seeing people I respect leave or remain silent has only added fuel to the fire. There is always an ebb and flow on forums, but the final straw for me was seeing a personal message published - how disrespectful is that and most of us I'm sure will realise who the author was. And to use it as a means of trying to defend one's own poor behaviour . . . .

    I guess a lot of forum folk like conflict and 'lively' discussion with robustly defended argument, but there is a fine line between that and the insults.

    Tim
    People may be silent because they may be busy or away on holiday and not unusual during the summer months.

    That cosy atmosphere isn't wrong if we were talking about a private club with membership entry, but it does say "Forum" over the door so it kinda goes with the territory that in addition to new welcome posters you are just as likely to acquire unwelcome posters - people like me for example

    I like an exchange of views and opinions as much as the next man and if they border on being a tad robust then it doesn't bother me provided it is kept to the subject matter without resorting to name calling and insinuation. It is when the traffic becomes one way only, or when I present valid points and people respond with their own dogma, or worse still, they ignore my postings because it directly conflicts with their view which rubs me up the wrong way - as it does many others.

    Once again, I will applaud Marco and the other mods that hold the forum helm on a true course. On another forum I used to frequent the "owner" treats it as his own personal playground these days and cares not one jot for anyone he offends or insults, so little wonder the regulars are seeking pastures new. A forum like that already has the writing on the wall, but if AoS keeps a firm grip on it's ethos, it will prosper and flourish.

  8. #18
    Join Date: Jun 2010

    Location: Scotland

    Posts: 1,940
    I'm Tom.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hifi_dave View Post
    I joined AOS because it is/was a friendly, civilised, informative place to be but recently it has become too confrontational and aggressive for me. I am now wary of where and what I post and I'm visiting less and less.
    I'm sorry to say this Dave but in pure truth it is people like you that make the forum what it is, so by being reticent and wary of posting, or not visiting, you are in effect letting in the elements you don't want to find on the forum. Sort of self prophecy really and in a perverse way you are also saying the mods cannot control this forum - very far from the reality.

  9. #19
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Exactly, Frank (your previous post was particularly spot on), although I do value Dave's input.

    Guys,

    I'm going to lock this thread temporarily until I compose a suitable reply, as otherwise, by the time I type it, the discussion will have gone off in another direction again.

    I appreciate your input, and rest assured, your points will be taken on board.

    However, in the meantime, I'll leave you with a snippet of what Frank wrote, which is I feel hits the nail on the head:

    That cosy atmosphere isn't wrong if we were talking about a private club with membership entry, but it does say "Forum" over the door so it kinda goes with the territory that in addition to new welcome posters you are just as likely to acquire unwelcome posters...
    Do you want AoS simply to be a clique, merely containing all our of YOUR buddies, or an open community, full of all sorts of different personalities, some you may not like, just like in real life........? Communities in real life do not always conform to our perfect ideals, and neither do those on forums.....

    I'll leave you with that thought, and will now compose my proper reply. The thread will be reopened for your responses once I've done that

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  10. #20
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Before I deal with the above issue, let's tackle the subject of 'robust debates', where again, Frank hits the nail on the head:

    I like an exchange of views and opinions as much as the next man and if they border on being a tad robust then it doesn't bother me provided it is kept to the subject matter without resorting to name calling and insinuation.
    That is the crux of the matter. Interesting, meaty, in-depth, thought-provoking debates, where those with opposing viewpoints challenge each other robustly, but respectfully, are precisely what we want on AoS.

    Now I acknowledge that some people on the (now locked) cable debate on occasions went a little beyond that, and I'll tackle this in a minute, but such debates are part and parcel of forum life, so if you choose to participate in a lively forum, such as AoS, then you really need to have a thick enough skin to cope!

    I agree that some cable debates are repetitive and tedious, as is the objectivist vs. subjectivist thing, but unfortunately these are popular topics which are destined to pop up now and then, so do we just simply ban them and stifle creative discussion, or allow them, but manage them properly?

    On AoS, we will always take the latter route, as allowing people to express their opinion, and freely discuss what subjects they want to discuss, within the boundaries of our ethos, is a core part of what we stand for, and I'm sorry, but we will not stop that from being the case simply because a few of you sensitive souls don't like reading certain threads, where there is a little bit of 'rough & tumble' going on.

    I'm afraid that it's been said time and time again, but if there are discussions you don't like, then, quite simply, don't read them! *That*, I’m afraid, is the only acceptable course of action, because by the very nature of life itself, there are always going to be things that you don't like, and the contents of on-line communities like AoS, are no exception.

    You can't expect AoS to become some notion of your ideal world. Or consider it justified to simply participate in our community as a form of escapism from your humdrum existence (should that apply): your own personal therapy centre, if you will. That is not why we gave birth to AoS, or what we see as a vision for its future. It is also rather selfish to expect AoS to cater only for your specific needs, and if something doesn't fit in with that notion, then it is wrong.

    It's also up to you to have enough self-discipline to simply ignore what doesn't interest you. Do you think I enjoy the content of every single thread and post which is written here? Of course not, there are significant sections of the forum I rarely read, simply because the subjects are not to my interest. There are also certain people I warm to more than others, and folk who on occasions wind me up.

    But do you see me imposing those feelings upon the forum in any way, by moderating those who wind me up, stifling discussions and controlling them so that they conform to my beliefs, or allowing any negative feelings to affect my enjoyment of participating in the discussions which interest me? If I did that, what would AoS be like?

    No, I simply let people be themselves and get on with it in their own way, providing that everyone is behaving in accordance with the guidelines we have set, and concentrate instead in participating in the discussions that are of interest to me.

    If the forum is going through an uninteresting or 'difficult' phase for you, then give it a break and go and listen to some music, take your wife out for a meal, or play with the kids or whatever, until things are different. By their very nature, forums evolve and change, so you have to accept that some of the ways that they will change may not align with your sensibilities. I'm afraid that's just life, people!

    Oh, and one thing, instead of moaning when there aren't any threads of interest to you, start some which are! The problem sometimes with forums is that there are too many lazy buggers who simply like to read what others write, and not contribute themselves.... Always remember that, in terms of its content, the forum will always only be what you make it!!

    Ok, regarding Richard and Howard.....

    I think that the message is coming home loud and clear that many of you are pissed off with Howard's one-line threads linking to eBay, or newspapers, and such like. I agree that it's littering up the forum a little and that there is some motivation for self-gain in his reasons for doing so, therefore I will ask Howard to stop. And being the reasonable chap that he is, I'm sure he will do as asked and concentrate on contributing to the forum in other ways.

    As for Richard, well, your points have been duly noted, and some of them are justified. What you should remember, however, is that when Richard came here, he was carrying a lot of 'baggage' from his past and from his experiences on other forums, where rightly or wrongly, he was always seen as the bad guy, and attacked according for it by all and sundry.

    Now, yes, some of that was of his own doing, as I'm sure he'll be the first to admit that he can be a prickly character; and so when he was allowed back to AoS, he didn't really take into consideration that things are different here, and that no-one was 'out to get him'. Therefore, he came prepared to have the usual conflicts, and thus brought with him a defensive and confrontational attitude.

    However, as he's settled in more and got to know people better, he's began to soften his stance and integrate better into our community. I can see a definite change in him, and he has made some interesting and thought-provoking contributions, albeit some of a controversial nature, but that in my opinion, as Frank has alluded to, is what keeps things interesting.

    Richard is a strong and opinionated character, and there are those who will love him or loathe him for that, but with his extensive experience in the industry and knowledge as an established audio designer, he has much to offer to AoS. Therefore I would ask that you allow him to do that, and try to accept Richard for who he is. Not everyone will like him, but hey, do you always like your next door neighbour? And if you don’t, do you move away or try to get on? I see that very much like the situation we have here at the moment.

    I will of course ask Richard to reciprocate and try and gradually leave his old self behind, and lose the propensity to be 'difficult'. But you can't expect someone to change their personality overnight - in fact it would be totally unrealistic to do so; the integration has to be a gradual process. So let's give him a chance, guys, eh?

    Now, I would direct you to the contents of my previous post, and welcome your thoughts on that, and also on the rest of what I have just written

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


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