Subwoofer thrills and spills

[Reid Malenfant]

Aye, the V2 is a sealed box with servo amp that controls the cone (like the earlier version) but has a 15" bass driver with +/- 25mm excursion with a 3KW amp Not quite sure what the original was but 15mm springs to mind, which will still kick some proverbial botty even in a sealed box & less power

The V2 has also been superceded

[electric beach]

Subs get a bum rap in my opinion, partly through their association with home cinema, partly through the difficulty to integrate one (or two) with a stereo pair of speakers and partly with the obsessing over theatrical fireworks.

I use a sub to compliment my stereo, a Rel Strata2, and use the same system for music and films. Of course they do low frequencies but what has most potential is their effect on the perception of the whole frequency range. Any sound is just more real and natural if the lowest harmonics (maybe I don't mean that) are reproduced.

In Inception there is the scene where the shop windows are blowing out, into the street and into the room. Had me ducking for cover from the shards of glass sything through the air. That was the sub, not a supertweeter.

Even the ambient acoustic or a delicate sound that superficially contains no low frequencies, just doesn't sound so real without a sub.

And I now find one to be essential in my two channel preference for music - regardless of the low frequency prowess of the main pair. It aids locking the sound to the room, hints at live presence and weight, and increases the 3D effect of the soundstage.

Thinking about it, I've not noticed anyone else here using a 2.1 setup for music, but I'm sure there must be.

[Jac Hawk]

Subs get a bum rap in my opinion, partly through their association with home cinema, partly through the difficulty to integrate one (or two) with a stereo pair of speakers and partly with the obsessing over theatrical fireworks.

I use a sub to compliment my stereo, a Rel Strata2, and use the same system for music and films. Of course they do low frequencies but what has most potential is their effect on the perception of the whole frequency range. Any sound is just more real and natural if the lowest harmonics (maybe I don't mean that) are reproduced.

In Inception there is the scene where the shop windows are blowing out, into the street and into the room. Had me ducking for cover from the shards of glass sything through the air. That was the sub, not a supertweeter.

Even the ambient acoustic or a delicate sound that superficially contains no low frequencies, just doesn't sound so real without a sub.

And I now find one to be essential in my two channel preference for music - regardless of the low frequency prowess of the main pair. It aids locking the sound to the room, hints at live presence and weight, and increases the 3D effect of the soundstage.

Thinking about it, I've not noticed anyone else here using a 2.1 setup for music, but I'm sure there must be.

I started down the 2.1 route back in the late 80's with a set of KEF 101's and a Rogers Super Woofer, now in a big room those little Kef's needed the help of a sub, and i would agree with you when you say that a sub adds weight and presence even with large speakers. At the moment my living room system is a 5.1 setup with Mordaunt Short MS 45ti's front, MS 10's rear, a Polk Audio centre, and a Yamaha YST SW80, the sub needs replacing TBH it's great for music, but way out of it's depth for movies, but listening to music in 5.1 IMHO is great and gives a concert type feeling to the music that i've still not experienced to the same degree with a 2 or 2.1 setup, that said it's not perfect, sound quality tends to suffer a bit and it's not as easy as a stereo system to set up and the listening position is more critical.

Overall i would agree with you steve / val, subs and anything home theatre tends to take a bit of a beating from our twin box purists

[Covenant]

My sub is not too shabby:
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue16/velodyne.htm
The digital room correction (adjusted on the TV) is great, means you can stick it anywhere.

[colinB]

Im surprised how easy it was to set mine up and yes its a sealed unit. I put it between the speakers and stuck the tv on top. Made a DIY platform from scraps of auralex and adjust the sub volume with a remote control. No going back now.
The new version has Lh inputs and a link for a AV processor but i will never have the room for 5.1. The version i have has a usb dac input which i use for spotify.
Also has analogue inputs for the turntable and 3 x 100w amps which are easy on the ear. Very happy.

[keiths]

Thinking about it, I've not noticed anyone else here using a 2.1 setup for music, but I'm sure there must be.

I'm using a REL Strata with my Mission 771es for music at the moment. Very impressed by how it sounds.

[colinB]

Out of all the RELs the strata seems to be the one for music and movies.

[SpeakToTheHand]

Subs get a bum rap in my opinion, partly through their association with home cinema, partly through the difficulty to integrate one (or two) with a stereo pair of speakers and partly with the obsessing over theatrical fireworks.

I use a sub to compliment my stereo, a Rel Strata2, and use the same system for music and films. Of course they do low frequencies but what has most potential is their effect on the perception of the whole frequency range. Any sound is just more real and natural if the lowest harmonics (maybe I don't mean that) are reproduced.

In Inception there is the scene where the shop windows are blowing out, into the street and into the room. Had me ducking for cover from the shards of glass scything through the air. That was the sub, not a supertweeter.

Even the ambient acoustic or a delicate sound that superficially contains no low frequencies, just doesn't sound so real without a sub.

And I now find one to be essential in my two channel preference for music - regardless of the low frequency prowess of the main pair. It aids locking the sound to the room, hints at live presence and weight, and increases the 3D effect of the soundstage.

Thinking about it, I've not noticed anyone else here using a 2.1 setup for music, but I'm sure there must be.

I agree completely.

Subs really do get a "bum wrap" and most people don't have them set up correctly. Everything from room placement, crossover settings or their ability to integrate well into existing speakers is all vitally important. A mate of mine had his AVR crossover set to direct all the Low Frequency Effect [LFE] to the sub under 100Hz and his sub crossover set to only start at under 80Hz. Leaving a 20Hz void in bass integration between the speakers and the sub. That's something that the owners of 2 channel towers generally don't need to worry about.
IMO the bass extension a well setup sub can deliver to a room will in most cases out performs what "big woofer" tower speakers can produce.
The reasons are:
Location - Large tower speakers is mainly set to achieve the right stereo sound stage. Unfortunately this speaker location does not always suit the standing wave - [LFE] that the woofer has compared to the listening position. A sub gives more placement options and once you have the sweet spot sorted you can stack up multiple subs.
Wattage- The amp does not have to "load up" to supply the grunt for large woofers as the sub looks after its own requirements.
I use The Hurt Locker movie to show very good solid LFE with my 3x M&K subs [5x 12" drivers @ 600w RMS]

Cheers

[sq225917]

The Strata was just a good price point, the bigger subs were better, just way expensive. I used to run the Strata 3 with my Kef ref 203 and with my Es14's. Ynwan still runs a Rel Stadium with his ES14's.

[realysm42]

I use a 2.1 for my music right now. After playing with the low pass filter, it fits in happily with the rest of the system, I can't imagine not having it.