Centre speaker - or lack of!!

Been fiddling with the Marantz SR5600 that JacHawk so kindly donated me last yr!
I have my Samsung TV on the wall above it and the RelQ50 sub in the corner of the room , that I use with the other Hi Fi most of the time .
I have 2 old Marantz speakers from my original hi fi ,as back speakers , 2 Mission 733 speakers as sides (that I had with some seperates I bought a few weeks ago ,and repaired the woofer in the one ) , but I don't have a decent centre speaker at present .

Do I really need a centre or could I program the AV receiver to push the vocals through the other 2 pairs?
I do have a couple of Aiwa speakers that are not being used , and I have consider using just the one as a stop gap centre , until I find a good centre on the bay ,locally !!(I have been underbidder on 2 just lately , and rather than rush to buy something I regret , thought I would take my time to find a good second hand one ,as they don't tend to make a lot?)
Thanks , I have not visited the AV studio before :mental:

You can program the receiver to send the centre output to the front left and right. Just de-select the centre speaker in the menu and it will happen automatically.

That's what I do and I prefer it to having a centre speaker.

Yes, and it works well... Until that is you hear things done properly in an expertly set-up 5.1 system, employing a high-quality centre speaker! ;)

Marco.

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Originally Posted by Marco

Yes, and it works well... Until that is you hear things done properly in an expertly set-up 5.1 system, employing a high-quality centre speaker! ;)

Marco.

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Man I was an early adopter of DVD and 5.1, I've had an HT system for 16 years, I'm on my 3rd receiver (which isn't bad going for me) and a mate who got into it the same time as me has a THX 7.2 set up in a dedicated room and all professionally installed. I'm under no illusions as to what is possible. I just got a bit bored with it and didn't take it any further myself.

Incidentally, he had a lot of issues with centre speakers, he now has a 3 speaker array just for the centre channel, using active Meridians. He reckons this is just about satisfactory.

Ha - sounds like a perfectionist/hardcore dude, and my kinda guy! :respect:

I ain't going there, though. Once I add the second sub, that's me done :cool:

Marco.

I think the centre channel is the one that works the hardest in a home cinema installation.

I agree. That is the issue he had, the system was B&W all round. At THX reference level there was distortion in the sound. He is not into hi-fi so thought it was normal. It was uncomfortable to listen to at this level, backed off a bit it was mint. But he had paid for THX reference so he persisted, eventually the tweeter in the centre speaker started misbehaving, hence the replacement Meridian array. Basically it could not do what it was specced. All the speakers and the amp were THX certified.

Thanks folks!! Nice to see an can of worms opened :eyebrows:
I have given it some thought during milking and I will put one of the Akai (not Aiwa , I get confused ), 3 way , and not bad speakers , in as the front for now. The other ,I will put against the back wall as the rear speaker ,although I don't think that output has been used before.
I am but a beginner , but I think it might be good enough for me ,that is until I get bored of it!!:)

I just need a bolthole to go to during all the Christmas 'festivities!! bah Humbug :cool:

The Akai should be fine. Try it both in and out and see which you prefer, you might be surprised. As the Bishop said to the actress.

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Originally Posted by Oddball

I have given it some thought during milking...

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I thought you were an early morning ham-shanker? :D

Marco.

Cheeky !!!! ;)

Interesting thread...

I'm a big believer in centre speakers - mostly for when you want to sit at one end of the sofa and not the 'sweet spot'. A good one will add focus and solidity to the soundstage. I'm also a believer in setting the centre as 'small' even if it's quite capable in the bass department. The centre channel is the busiest channel in your average movie soundtrack. Hiving the bass off to the mains and/or sub leaves the centre (even a big one) and its power amp with more 'headroom' for want of a better term to handle the complexity of the signal.

My two cents anyway. I think the only exception is if you're running something really epic as your main stereo pair (801, DSP8000, other behemoths) where a centre may just sully the system and sound weedy by comparison.

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Originally Posted by Macca

You can program the receiver to send the centre output to the front left and right. Just de-select the centre speaker in the menu and it will happen automatically.

That's what I do and I prefer it to having a centre speaker.

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I've gone one further and removed the sub, so 4.0 really...:eyebrows:

My main speakers (IPL S5TLs) go down to 23Hz, so I don't need any additional out of phase boom!

Removing the AV powered center, and pushing all 3 main channels through my stereo rig is a massive improvement, particularly with music videos...:)

All my AV processor does is drive my rear L & R rear surrounds, a set of old '91 Bose (OK I've admitted it ;)) AM5s, which are actually excellent for the rear surround job...honest!

My sub sits next to the hi fi ,and the TV and AV receiver ,on the other side .
I simply unplug the phono leads from one to the other ,depending on which I am using ,but its like spaghetti junction behind there !!
4 sets of speakers and a sub
I am sure if it was the living room ,I would have been evicted by now!!!
Also ,my sons room is above , so I have to exercise caution apparently:ner:
Fortunately the room is 20 x 40 ft , but seems to be filling up with hi fi boxes and second rate equipment:eek:

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Originally Posted by Oddball

Fortunately the room is 20 x 40 ft , but seems to be filling up with hi fi boxes and second rate equipment:eek:

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20 x 40! You need some monster JBLs in your life. Sell the cows, man!

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Originally Posted by WAD62

My main speakers (IPL S5TLs) go down to 23Hz, so I don't need any additional out of phase boom!

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Lol... Not so, if you get it right! ;)

'Taint no boom here... The little Yamaha sub seems to work seamlessly with the 15XRs, their ABRs combining superbly well with it and creating very impressive 'slam' with movie explosions and gunshots! :cool:

Marco.

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Originally Posted by Marco

Lol... Not so, if you get it right! ;)

'Taint no boom here... The little Yamaha sub seems to work seamlessly with the 15XRs, their ABRs combining superbly well with it and creating very impressive 'slam' with movie explosions and gunshots! :cool:

Marco.

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I get plenty enough slam from the IPL's mate! :)

And the rears have their own sub too (2.1), under the couch, so more than enough bass all round, as full frequency range is sent to all 4 speakers :cool:

Before the IPLs I used an old Yamaha sub in conjunction with my Mission 753s, they needed it...however with the IPLs in place the sub is rendered pointless IMHO

Absolutely, and that's cool. I was just saying that the addition of a sub doesn't have to result in "out of phase boom" :)

Marco.

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Originally Posted by Marco

Absolutely, and that's cool. I was just saying that the addition of a sub doesn't have to result in "out of phase boom" :)

Marco.

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Certainly not.

As long as the sub is connected 'in phase' with the main speakers, the phase should be perfect. Also, the wavelength of low frequencies is so large that having the sub some distance away from the main speakers makes little difference.

That said. I've tried subs on occasion and did not get on with them.

Me neither, Geoff, as far as in 2-channel mode is concerned, but in the home-cinema system the Yamaha underpins and add gravitas very impressively to low frequencies. As such, I wouldn't be without it :)

Marco.

I've always been deeply skeptical about subwoofers (I'm 5.0 but mostly for the sake of my downstairs neighbour), but I've heard two really impressive implementations lately in two channel music systems. One is an REL sub (a fairly tall one - bigger than I expected) with a pair of Castle Harlechs. Sensibly integrated (really couldn't locate the sub when playing, but you felt its effect when switched off and the very bottom disappeared).

The second system used a compact and presumably quite high end Velodyne sub (all DSP-equalisation, with OSD-assisted setup and a remote control with more buttons on it than the one for my TV). The integration with the Bowers & Wilkins 804D here incredibly impressive - the already seriously capable speakers became full-on stormers and again - the sub impossible to locate aurally. No boom or waffle - just a seemingly unending stream of tuneful, deep and powerful bass. Impressive indeed. If I ever find myself living in a house I want one!!

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Originally Posted by m10

I've always been deeply skeptical about subwoofers (I'm 5.0 but mostly for the sake of my downstairs neighbour), but I've heard two really impressive implementations lately in two channel music systems. One is an REL sub (a fairly tall one - bigger than I expected) with a pair of Castle Harlechs. Sensibly integrated (really couldn't locate the sub when playing, but you felt its effect when switched off and the very bottom disappeared).

The second system used a compact and presumably quite high end Velodyne sub (all DSP-equalisation, with OSD-assisted setup and a remote control with more buttons on it than the one for my TV). The integration with the Bowers & Wilkins 804D here incredibly impressive - the already seriously capable speakers became full-on stormers and again - the sub impossible to locate aurally. No boom or waffle - just a seemingly unending stream of tuneful, deep and powerful bass. Impressive indeed. If I ever find myself living in a house I want one!!

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I am lucky enough not to have any neighbours , or I can see it being a problem :)

Prefer to curtail bass a bit personally. Like to concentrate on the mids tbh and find heavy bass a distraction. Dont mind a bit of normal though :eek:

Well ,today I am getting everything a bit more under control!!:)
I have my stressless chair in the centre of the room , a 50 watt Marantz speaker on another chair against the wall behind me , 2 mission 733 floorstanders on either side of me , the other Marantz as a centre ,on its side , and the 2 Akai3 ways as front sides ,just behind the tv .
Its a bit of an education setting it all up ,but its sounds great , and all on a shoestring :eyebrows:
Don't think I will bother with the sub , as I have set all speakers to large and the bass seems ok at the moment.
I cant seem to get the sub to recognise the signal from the single pre out socket recommended in the manual , as I cant see how it will liven up the sub ,from just the one phono socket?? (it has red and white , the one being Mono? )

It might just be a bit frightening anyway , and I might shatye myself:D

Cant wait to plug my Firestick in ,I am having for Chrimbo !! ( If I can get enough wireless in my cave :scratch:)

Re the sub if you want to connect it via the LFE channel (just one lead, it is mono anyway) It may be setting the fronts to 'large' diverts the LFE channel to them. Try setting fronts to small and see if it works then. If you already tried that, disregard.

Cheers Macca, willdo :)

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Originally Posted by Oddball

Been fiddling with the Marantz SR5600 that JacHawk so kindly donated me last yr!
I have my Samsung TV on the wall above it and the RelQ50 sub in the corner of the room , that I use with the other Hi Fi most of the time .
I have 2 old Marantz speakers from my original hi fi ,as back speakers , 2 Mission 733 speakers as sides (that I had with some seperates I bought a few weeks ago ,and repaired the woofer in the one ) , but I don't have a decent centre speaker at present .

Do I really need a centre or could I program the AV receiver to push the vocals through the other 2 pairs?
I do have a couple of Aiwa speakers that are not being used , and I have consider using just the one as a stop gap centre , until I find a good centre on the bay ,locally !!(I have been underbidder on 2 just lately , and rather than rush to buy something I regret , thought I would take my time to find a good second hand one ,as they don't tend to make a lot?)
Thanks , I have not visited the AV studio before :mental:

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i use a pair of mission 760i's for centre duty, theyre a very nice a little speaker and can be had quite cheap, might match well with your 733's.
cheers
Mike.

Good centre speakers are relatively cheap to get on eBay, i had a Polk Audio Reference centre speaker that i used with the Marantz amp and it sounded sweet, i think it was one of the things i gave away a year or two ago, anyway i'm pleased you're enjoying the amp and if i come across a decent centre that would suite you, i'll give you a shout.

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Originally Posted by Jac Hawk

Good centre speakers are relatively cheap to get on eBay, i had a Polk Audio Reference centre speaker that i used with the Marantz amp and it sounded sweet, i think it was one of the things i gave away a year or two ago, anyway i'm pleased you're enjoying the amp and if i come across a decent centre that would suite you, i'll give you a shout.

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Thanks again Jac!!: )
Oh don't get me wrong , I can afford a decent second hand centre , but I have got used to the speakers I am using now ,and it sounds really great to my rough ears:lol:
The biggest thing is setting up the amp for various uses , and I am still learning despite having printed off the user manual from the archive section !!
It has been a revelation to me actually , and together with a Firestick (we are lucky enough to have the bandwidth here in the sticks ,being next to the BT cabinet) I m being kept well entertained !!
Loads of things to discover ,before I expect I will need to tweek it !!

I find that having a centre channel really helps with movies - helping to spread the sounds across the front better and giving the dialogue dedicated space. But with music I sometimes think it can sound off having the vocal so localised into the centre, rather than it being heavily panned from the fronts. It depends on the mix and levels really as I've some surround music which sounds superb as is but then others I have to turn the centre down, send it to fronts only or I just end up preferring the hi-res stereo track.