View Full Version : Vinyl Revirginizer
Just ordered a bottle of this stuff:
http://recordrevirginizer.com/
Some discussion here:
http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=2797.0
and also reviewed in March issue of HFW
I can't bring myself to spend £400 on a cleaning machine, I just don't have enough records (about 300) to justify it.
Anyone tried it already? Or the Wood glue method discussed in the second link?
Beechwoods
13-02-2011, 11:16
That stuff looks good. I'll be interested to see how it performs for you. I'd love an RCM but don't listen to enough vinyl, yet, to warrant spending more than my player cost on one.
Very interesting - let us know how you get on Martin, this could be better than a new dishwasher!
Looks interesting. Not cheap though - about 2 quid per record. So if you've got about 250 records, a record cleaner would be cheaper in the long run.
At £34.42 + P&P a bottle it's not cheap.
I'm also wary of putting anything on my vinyl that is not volatile and will evaporate. I can imagine the 'face mask' breaking up whilst being peeled off and leaving bits behind!
However I'm open to persuasion, so why not tell us how you get on Martin and write a 'review' for Strokes of Genius?
Regards
aquapiranha
13-02-2011, 16:11
I am sure I remember reading about someone cleaning records with PVA glue? sounds dodgy...
At £34.42 + P&P a bottle it's not cheap.
I'm also wary of putting anything on my vinyl that is not volatile and will evaporate. I can imagine the 'face mask' breaking up whilst being peeled off and leaving bits behind!
However I'm open to persuasion, so why not tell us how you get on Martin and write a 'review' for Strokes of Genius?
Regards
I will of course report back on the results - probably won't turn up until Thursday, though.
Stratmangler
13-02-2011, 20:09
Record Revirginiser ?
Wot, it makes the hole in the middle smaller and tighter ?:scratch:
The problem with this stuff, and I've said it many times before, is that it's not the cleaning of records (or removal of dirt) that's the problem - that's the easy bit. It's the thorough removal of the liquid used (and all the crud) afterwards.
I'm afraid that without a proper RCM to suck up the 'smeg' removed, all you're doing is loosening it and transferring it from one place to another, which your stylus will then collect during playback, thus completely defeating the purpose of using this stuff in the first place....!
Save your money for a proper RCM and stop lining other people's pockets who sell this pish. It's amazing what you can afford when you put your mind to it. A few less beers, bottles of wine, fags, nights out or other luxuries, and you'll be there in no time at all... ;)
If you're going to do a job, do it right!!
Marco.
Beechwoods
13-02-2011, 20:53
Marco, this stuff hardens into a plastic like film, which peels off, taking any debris with it - at least that's the theory - so it should avoid the fatal flaw you describe with most 'cleaner fluid and brush' based cleaning processes... seems like a good idea at any rate.
It won't work properly, Nick - at least what I call properly. The results will be half-baked at best, as it's bound to leave a residue of some description.
Sorry, but I just don't believe in cutting corners pissing around with something as important as the condition of your treasured record collection.
Marco.
Beechwoods
13-02-2011, 20:59
A fair position when you've a collection sizeable enough, and played enough to warrant a proper RCM (I'd say if you listen to vinyl every day, you need a proper RCM). But if you're a more occasional vinyl listener the economics are harder to square. That might be where this stuff finds it's niche (assuming it works - Martin will tell when he's tried it!).
IMHO of course ;)
Whatever floats ya boat, dude. I'm just not a fan of these things, as in the long term, I firmly believe they just make things worse.
Good luck though to whoever uses it!
Marco.
The Grand Wazoo
13-02-2011, 21:11
Stuff like this has been on the market for donkeys years. I tried something similar to this in the late 80's that I bought in the shiny new Virgin Megastore when it first opened in Brighton. Side 3 of my copy of Wishbone Ash 'Live Dates' has still got bits of it in one or two of the inner grooves.
Stuff like this has been on the market for donkeys years. I tried something similar to this in the late 80's that I bought in the shiny new Virgin Megastore when it first opened in Brighton. Side 3 of my copy of Wishbone Ash 'Live Dates' has still got bits of it in one or two of the inner grooves.
Bits of 'face mask'? More or less confirms my suspicions. I'll stick to my record cleaner.
zygote23
14-02-2011, 00:53
I use specsavers lens bright and either a lens cloth or a microfibre cloth. Havent managed to trash anything yet!
Well, lots of opinions on how this will turn out!
I now have the said bottle of liquid in my posession and will be trying it out later today when I've woken up a bit. Incidentally, Marco, the claim is that it can be used in conjunction with an RCM becasue it will dislodge and take up rubbish that an RCM won't...
watch this space...
So- after a leisurly breakfast I have set about the experimentation.
Choosing what record to test this on was a tough one - in the end I have opted for an old copy of Dire Straits first LP that got beer spilt on it about 20 years ago and has been unplayable since. Should be a good test.
I was going to try side one of LedZep Physical Graffiti as this has a big surface noise issue, lots of pops and clicks but as it is an original I chickened out and went for a nice-price reissue of Steely Dan's Gaucho that has been well played and sticks on side one in a couple of spots.
Putting the gunk on the records was pretty easy as it is quite viscous and goes where you place it - no worry about getting it on the label. The you spread it around with your fingers making sure the entire playing surface is covered. You end up with this:
http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac233/Macca_photos_2009/recordrevirginizer001.jpg
http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac233/Macca_photos_2009/recordrevirginizer002.jpg
The little tagger will set into the gunk and is to make it easy to pull the whole thing off in one go once it is set. Which may take up to twelve hours apparantly. And so the waiting game begins...
Hi Martin,
TWELVE hours to do ONE record??? :mental:
Good luck. I hope it works really well for you, but that fact alone would negate me using it.
Even with my fastidious attention to detail in terms of the cleaning process I adopt with the VPI, I can transform a dirty record to a very shiny, blemish-free thing, in around 5-6 mins!!!
Hardly practical, this stuff is it? Jeez, if I started cleaning my record collection now with this 'Vinyl Revirginizer', I *might* just finish before I die - of mind-numbing boredom and/or natural causes, whichever came first!! :lol:
Marco.
Hi Martin,
TWELVE hours to do ONE record??? :mental:
Good luck. I hope it works really well for you, but that fact alone would negate me using it.
Even with my fastidious attention to detail in terms of the cleaning process I adopt with the VPI, I can transform a dirty record to a very shiny, blemish-free thing, in around 5-6 mins!!!
Hardly practical, this stuff is it? Jeez, if I started cleaning my record collection now with this 'Vinyl Revirginizer', I *might* just finish before I die - of mind-numbing boredom and/or natural causes, whichever came first!! :lol:
Marco.
Actually Marco it is 24 hours to do one record as you can only do one side at a time...
Anyway as it turns out I was out last night so they have had about 20 hours.
Just peeled the mask of from 'Gaucho'. No problems it came off in one piece. Flipping the record over and comparing the treated side to the untreated the difference is blatently obvious - the treated side (aside from a couple of minor scratches) does look like a brand new record.
And so to the Record Player and some 'San Francisco Show and Tell' - how does it sound?
Well, I'm impressed. Bear in mind this is a twenty-five year old record that I bought second hand about 1990 and has been played to death. All of the background hash has totally dissapeared, the annoying but invisible patch on Babylon Sisters that used to cause the needle to stick is gone completely. I noticed a tiny amount of crackle and pop in the gap between tracks one and two, but I had to listen hard to hear it.
As far as residue goes I cannot see anything that has been left and the stylus has not dragged anything up so I would have to say an almost total success.
Now on to the much more knackered Dire Straits LP: This had beer or something else sticky spilt on it years ago - still visible as a mask of crud on the on the surface. Totally unplayable.
Not so successful here. The record now plays but background hash and crackle is still pretty obvious. In truth it would have been amazing if it had cleaned it up totally, I suspect an RCM would have made a better job of it with this one. I still sat and listened to the whole side, it was far from an unbearable problem.
So there you have it - it's quick and easy to apply although it takes ages to dry. It does work pretty well and doesn't leave any crud or residue on the disc, but won't perform miracles. What it does let me do is sort out about a dozen or so of my favourite records without spending £400 on an RCM which is the result I was looking for:)
I think I be going down the DIY record cleaning route, just to long to clean records using this method and the DIY route will work out a lot cheaper
Vinyleyes
20-02-2011, 14:34
I've heard that the steam nozzle on an expresso machine works pretty good ... so long as you don't get too close to it .. You get the optimum distance by testing with your finger .. as soon as you stop scalding your finger that is the distance to place the record .. and slowly revolve .. .. ............ whilst placing aforementioned test finger in a glass of ice .. ;) ... Anybody here want to to give it a try and report back .. :cool:
I've heard that the steam nozzle on an expresso machine works pretty good ... so long as you don't get too close to it .. You get the optimum distance by testing with your finger .. as soon as you stop scalding your finger that is the distance to place the record .. and slowly revolve .. .. ............ whilst placing aforementioned test finger in a glass of ice .. ;) ... Anybody here want to to give it a try and report back .. :cool:
I've got a steam cleaner, and after my previous exploits in the world of vinyl cleaning did threaten to give it a go - but never got round to it... Let me see if I get a chance tomorrow. I've also got some PVA glue, and a plastic membership card I was about to chuck out, so maybe I'll give that a go too :)
The Grand Wazoo
20-02-2011, 23:55
Don't go near a record with a steam cleaner unless you can happily throw the record away. You may find a way to do it & not ruin the record, but please don't try it on anything you expect to use again until you are completely confident of your technique. I keep reading about people who apparently have had success, but on my experience with trying to flatten out warps, I can't believe it will not be disastrous.
Take care!
Vinyleyes
21-02-2011, 03:55
Somehow I aquired a Yes album in the far distant past ... I'm gonna try that on the expresso machine ... If it can make that sound better then we're onto a winner ......... :) .....
Funnily enough there used to be a product called Opticlean for dirty photographic lenses which worked a treat. Same technique; put on a film have a paper tab & pull off. I still have a bottle & looked it out (don't use it very often). It doesn't say what it is made of but says not to use on plastic. I think this re-virginiser might be useful for the odd very badly noisy record after using a RCM.
By the way how often do you wash your records with a RCM. I got one two years ago and washed everything, so what triggers you to take a particular record back for a wash?
I saved this text (it's not my writing) on my computer some time back. Using PVA for record cleaning:
If you're unfamiliar with this technique you can jeer, point and fall about laughing at me. My first topic posted, after all! (And apologies if it has already been dealt with exhaustively).
But when you try it, you'll find I have the last laugh...
Ok, original(?) polydor pressing of King Crimson's Islands, owned since new when I was 16 or 17. Much played over the years, and now almost unlistenably noisy. After cleaning, noise much reduced to a level which is for me unobtrusive - small scratches etc dont go but all dirt related issues do. But also the sound is magically restored...more detail, soundstage depth and vividness (This Crimson is a GREAT recording, by the way). Decca ffss of Stravinsky and Ravel goes from annoyingly noisy and dynamically constrained to wow....to...where did all THAT come from? And thats just the latest two.
Anyway enough purple prose, I'll tell you all how to do it.
Use Evo Stick Weatherproof Wood Adhesive (B&Q)- PVA's are not created equal for this purpose. There may be others, but this brand is the best I've found and remains usefully plastic during peeling. Mix up a little 1 water to 3 glue in a jar and keep it handy. Then prepare a jar with a drop or two of washing up detergent with a tablespoon of water. Old credit card (remember credit?) two artists paint brushes, large, too.
Then gently apply the soap solution to each side, wait a minute or two, then with a gentle circular scrubbing action of the brush clean the groove area on each side, just as if you were cleaning the disc using only this method, ie gently but very thoroughly. Rinse and scrub a little more under lukewarm running water - being careful of the label, until all suds gone. Without waiting for the record to dry, support it (an upturned plastic cup underneath works fine for me) then using the same scrubbing motion, and a clean brush, work the dilute glue you prepared earlier into the grooves. How much? Well, not puddles of glue, but enough so there is going to be a film over all the groove area when dry.The run out groove can be ignored. Turn it over on your cup/support and do the other side - if it drips you're using too much.
Allow to dry, say half an hour. It will look black again rather than milky when ok.
Then, squirt a circle of undiluted glue, following the inner grooves - careful of the label. Then a circle round the outer grooves. Then fill in the area between with a zig zag lattice of glue squirts. Then - think icing a cake here - spread the glue with the credit card. Dont stint, a thick film is easier to remove. Try and make it both neat and thick at inner and outer grooves - it will come off better if you do.
Don't try and do the other side at this point, because if you're spreading the glue thick enough it WILL run and drip as soon as you turn the disc over. Wait an hour until the glue is dry enough not to run and then treat the other side in the same way.
Allow to dry, probably at least 8 hours, if very thick, maybe up to 48. When ready, will have dried clear with no white areas.
Pry at the edge where the run in groove is with your thumbnail. Once you get your nail in you'll find you can run your thumbnail round like a paper knife, lifting the edge over the run in groove. Good idea to do the other side at this point too, as both surfaces are protected at this point.
Then just gently pull at an edge thet you've just lifted, pull it towards the middle...when you get it loose to the inner run out grooves just take it round in the groove direction and it will (hopefully) come off cleanly.
After you've taken both sides off, the disc will be fairly statically charged and you might want to zap it with a zerostat. If your film breaks while taking it off, sometimes selotaping the breaks facilitates matters.
BUT DO TRY IT THE FIRST FEW TIMES WITH SOMETHING "DISPOSABLE"
Until you get the hang of it.
I don't want your shaded dogs and living stereos on my conscience!
Ian Walker
22-02-2011, 10:36
WARNING...Dont buy this" Revirginizer " if your missis is of the "experimental" type.
A mate of mine came came home from work to find his other arf drinkin his :lol:
Ian Walker
27-02-2011, 15:01
WARNING...Dont buy this" Revirginizer " if your missis is of the "experimental" type.
A mate of mine came came home from work to find his other arf drinkin his :lol:
Well i thought it was funny anyway....miserable bunch o f'kers:lol:
Beechwoods
27-02-2011, 15:04
:lolsign:
It was too subtle for me ;)
Postscipt to this thread.
I've pretty much used the whole bottle of this stuff now. One experiment I attempted was to treat a mint record and see if it made a difference. I took the LP of the Cult's 'Electric' and span side one. As far as noise and crackle goes it was CD quiet. I treated side one, then played it back the next day (the drying time is a PitA). There was no doubt it was much improved, particularly noticeable on the ring and decay of cymbals (something I seem to be particularly sensitive to). Swapping over to the untreated side two confirmed this - the difference was subtle but noticeable and extremely pleasing:)
Anyway the upshot is I now want to clean all my records and that ain;t gonna happen with this method, it would be just too expensive and time consuming (even though I only have about 400 LPs). So I am now going to buy an RCM and bollox to it. They seem to start at £400 for the Moth, (I don't want the kit version I would never get round to it). Would the panel recommend any alternatives to the Moth around the same price, and would anyone recommend a particular vendor who is deserving of my business?
Thanks all
The Grand Wazoo
19-03-2011, 11:45
Out of interest, how many were you able to do with the amount you had & what did the 'gloop' method cost per record?
Out of interest, how many were you able to do with the amount you had & what did the 'gloop' method cost per record?
I've think I've done about 20 sides (sorry, didn't keep an exact count) and could probably do another 5 or 6 with what is left so £35 divide by 14 or 15 - about £2.50 per album, but gauging how much or how little to use comes with experience so I used more than necessary at first. With careful use you could get it down to a quid a side, I reckon, but no less.
The Grand Wazoo
19-03-2011, 12:05
OK, so to buy a machine makes good good sense. For your £400 you get to clean your current collection just once with the gloop, or as many times as you like with the RCM
OK, so to buy a machine makes good good sense. For your £400 you get to clean your current collection just once with the gloop, or as many times as you like with the RCM
Exactly - plus any used vinyl I buy from now on (and there is a two floor used vinyl shop just around the corner from me:eyebrows: ) gets cleaned too. All I have done by trying this stuff is get myself addicted to the sound of cleaned records - now there is no going back:)
I'm in exactly the same situation - 400ish records, quite a few of which NEED cleaning, many more really should be cleaned and all of them would benefit from cleaning.
Think I'll buy this:- KAB EV-1 (http://www.kabusa.com/ev1.htm).
It's basically the Nitty Gritty 1.0, but you connect your own vacuum cleaner to it.
There appears to be no other source for it other than KAB USA, so it'll cost
$159 + $42 shipping + 1.7% duty + 20% VAT + £8 customs handling fee = £159ish
Thanks for the suggestion, Keith, but I have looked at these before and they are something of a halfway house which is not what I want; although it is a cheaper option by £250 or so. Plus with my luck my Hoover will be too powerful or the wrong size or something and I will have to buy another Hoover just to get the thing working. And I just bought a new Hoover (well, a Dyson);)
I too have those reservations - in fact you've talked me out of it and I'm now looking at the Moth DIY kit. Anyone built one?
I tried the PVA glue method yesterday on one of my spare copies of Brothers in Arms - except I'm not sure it was PVA glue - it was Evo Stick wood glue, and looked like PVA, but for most of the record it dried brittle, and took an absolute age to get off in tiny jagged pieces... :doh: Just about one track was playable, and it was still crackly and poppy - so I think the lesson is make sure it is proper PVA before you try!
However, if it does work, (and plenty of anecdotal evidence that it does) it will be considerably cheaper than the Revirginiser - I can get 5 litres of PVA from eBay - basically 10 times the quantity, for half the price. On this basis, using Martin's 25 records cleaned for 500ml it would work out at 250 records for £15 = 6p each. Of course the time element is still a factor, though the PVA method takes 5-6 hours to dry.
And if it doesn't work, my daughter will be doing a LOT of sticking! :lol:
jandl100
19-07-2011, 09:53
PVA glue for my charity shop bargains? :mental: This I have to try. :)
I've just bought a 200mL bottle of cheap stuff on fleaBay. £2.99 delivered. :eyebrows:
I shall report back.
Nice one Jerry. :) What with the Vaseline and now the PVA, I won't be surprised if your missus doesn't soon have a private investigator following you! :lol:
This was the best info I found on the PVA glue method - from the Lenco Heaven forum:
http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=320.0
They go into it in slightly more detail than I did!:)
The ultimate outcome for me was that it showed me the SQ improvement a clean record gives and I am not talking about crackles and pops but a clearer, more open sound overall, but particuarly the top end. It finally convinced me to buy an RCM so I could hear all of my records that way.
They go into it in slightly more detail than I did!:)
The ultimate outcome for me was that it showed me the SQ improvement a clean record gives and I am not talking about crackles and pops but a clearer, more open sound overall, but particuarly the top end. It finally convinced me to buy an RCM so I could hear all of my records that way.
Hi Martin - yes, I know an RCM is the only way to go, really, but can't justify the expense at the moment with everything else. Well, I could justify it, but I doubt "The Management" would sign it off! ;)
Hi Martin - yes, I know an RCM is the only way to go, really, but can't justify the expense at the moment with everything else. Well, I could justify it, but I doubt "The Management" would sign it off! ;)
That's exactly where I was at but the damn things are getting more expensive by the month - just like hanging on to a rising balloon - if you don't let go in time it gets to the point where you can't let go:)
It reduces wear and tear on the stylus saving you money that way also you can buy cheap records covered in crud and clean them - another saving. Add it up over the years that's a lot of money- c'mon you can sell that to the missus!:eyebrows:
It finally convinced me to buy an RCM so I could hear all of my records that way.
+1
Get the Moth kit - it's so much cheaper than the ready made one. Just add about £15 worth of wood, glue and stuff plus a few hours time and job done.
http://www.simister.com/public/rcm1.jpg
http://www.simister.com/public/rcm2.jpg
http://www.simister.com/public/rcm3.jpg
The Black Adder
19-08-2011, 10:25
GAH.. I wouldn't touch it.... no bloody way, wot!
I'd rather have the pops n ticks.
Postscipt to this thread.
They seem to start at £400 for the Moth, (I don't want the kit version I would never get round to it).
I bought my Moth kit and the box sat in my room for more than 6 months and it became an irritating entry on my To-do list!!! I even bought the timber, paint, brush and the works for the job! The monkey on my back became so heavy that I thought I would just sell the damn kit, until last year around Christmas I was stuck indoors, and for no apparent reason started sawing away. Although it took me a few days, I'm ham fisted and waiting for all the coats of paint to dry, I got it done!! It works a charm and I must admit, in the end immensely satisfying, even if it was just to scratch it off my to-do list.
Moral of the story, I don't think I saved any money by buying the kit, as I had to buy a whole sheet of timber with which I probably could've built 3 RCM with and I also had to buy a whole lot of tools. In the end, it probably worked me out the same as buying the damn thing, but I now have the tools and it was a rewarding experience, I'm glad I did it.
I'm so bloody psyched on this DIY thing now, my next project is to build a pair of Westminsters......:lolsign:
Anyone with a small collection of vinyl could send it to a record cleaning service which launched recently for a reasonable £3.00 per record and all cleaned records get put in a new anti static sleeve included in the price. :)
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