View Full Version : The DAC side of the force
Peter Stockwell
11-08-2008, 20:08
I'm having loads of fun with my TC-7510. To my ears it's as a good at organising music to reveal nuances of the performance as the Technics sl1200 is with LPs.
It just keeps reveal cues in music that I never knew were there.
Stan, you mentioned a couple of "modifications", are these real upgrades, or do they simply change the flavour. i've also seen it stated that you use a liner power supply, is this one homebrew or is it commercially available ?
Bravo Stan!
:gig:
cheers
Peter Stockwell
14-08-2008, 01:53
The TC-7510 has been running for 5 days now, It seems to sound different everyday. I've been warned of the 30 day +/- burn in period. Any others have any comments to add ?
Filterlab
14-08-2008, 08:29
The quality of your mains supply at different times of the day may be affecting it slightly, I have my DAC's power supply connected to a mains filter thing, it's the only component to my ears that is truly aided by a filter.
Peter Stockwell
14-08-2008, 12:38
The quality of your mains supply at different times of the day may be affecting it slightly, I have my DAC's power supply connected to a mains filter thing, it's the only component to my ears that is truly aided by a filter.
It's on a mains block with a rudimentary filter on it. I've got some missing link opus-F (in a Hydra configuration), that would be interesting to try. But the PSU for the beresford is plug mounted.
Otherwise I've the main rig on one spur and the dac/ae on another, earth is shared tho'.
cheers
The TC-7510 has been running for 5 days now, It seems to sound different everyday. I've been warned of the 30 day +/- burn in period. Any others have any comments to add ?
I don't bother listening to something for the first week if its new, just leave it powered up 24/7 to let the components settle in, the sound of fresh capacitors always give a different sound to ones that had chance to mature.
Its how things work with electronics:)
Peter Stockwell
15-08-2008, 13:19
Leo,
Thanks for that. I just wondered, also, are SMPS as sensitive to mains quality as Linear ?
cheers
Peter
I bought this digital transport to convert USB to coax on the way to my digital receiver - http://www.trendsaudio.com/EN/Product/USB_Audio_desc.htm. It also happens to have a humble Burr-Brown DAC in there, a 2704 I believe, so I tried it out between my Mac and my headphone setup. It sounds remarkably good. The power supply is a battery pack. I really wonder if, given a competent DAC chip in a good circuit design (separate digital and analog paths, etc.) bits aren't more or less bits after all, and the big differences are in the tone of the analog output stage.
Either that or I just got lucky.
Tim
I really wonder if, given a competent DAC chip in a good circuit design (separate digital and analog paths, etc.) bits aren't more or less bits after all, and the big differences are in the tone of the analog output stage.
Nope, there's more to it than that as well you (should) know! :ner:
I seem to remember a recent lengthy thread discussing this very topic involving TDA1541 chips and a Sony DAC...
Didn't you learn anything there, Tim? ;)
Marco.
bits aren't more or less bits after all, and the big differences are in the tone of the analog output stage.
Tim
If only things was that easy;) theres so much more with digital audio, lots of hurdles
Leo,
Thanks for that. I just wondered, also, are SMPS as sensitive to mains quality as Linear ?
cheers
Peter
I personally detest SMPS, dirty things with their RFI :lol: seriously though some switchers are worse than others, some are known to inject a huge amount of crap into where we don't want it
Only good thing about them is that they are cheap, efficient with high current output in a small light weight box
With the newer green regs etc coming in I'd imagine SMPS are going to be more and more common
Peter Stockwell
16-08-2008, 13:40
I'd never used an external DAC before the Beresford. Many posters, here and elsewhere, state that the Airport Express sends out a far from jitter free digital stream. The Beresford, IIRC, reclocks the input so that, not only bits is bits, but they're on time.
So Tim's claim about the tone, nice way of retroizing "voicing", of the analogue section might be what makje the difference. I won't argue about when the bits come from a CD/DVD transport, I've got no experience.
After the decorators finish chez me and I re-install the rig, it'll be an AV rig, but 2.0 only, and I'll try the DVD player digital out to the DAC. I could let the CDX/XPS/Hiline go, maybe, then.
cheers
Nope, there's more to it than that as well you (should) know! :ner:
I seem to remember a recent lengthy thread discussing this very topic involving TDA1541 chips and a Sony DAC...
Didn't you learn anything there, Tim? ;)
Marco.
I did, and I really do know there's a bit more to it than that, though I still suspect it's nowhere close to as complicated as some make it appear to be.
Tim
StanleyB
16-08-2008, 18:35
I did, and I really do know there's a bit more to it than that, though I still suspect it's nowhere close to as complicated as some make it appear to be.
Nothing is complicated, once you know how to do it and got the hang of it.
Nothing is complicated, once you know how to do it and got the hang of it.
Yes, once you DO know how to do it, this tells me more don't know than do going by 80% of the digital sources I've heard:confused:
I did, and I really do know there's a bit more to it than that, though I still suspect it's nowhere close to as complicated as some make it appear to be.
Good man, and you're right to a degree. Stan and Leo are giving good advice here. There is no substitute for practical experience :)
Marco.
StanleyB
16-08-2008, 19:58
One thing that I have picked up is the amount of folks who have or are thinking of selling their very expensive CDP and using their PC with a DAC. Is there a lesson in there somewhere?
Yes, most expensive CDPs these days are crap! ;)
Marco.
One thing that I have picked up is the amount of folks who have or are thinking of selling their very expensive CDP and using their PC with a DAC. Is there a lesson in there somewhere?
Looking at CD sales vs. downloads it might not so much a lesson as a shift towards a new 'preferred' medium. My girlfriend loves the sound quality of vinyl (hates the 'fiddling), but she much prefers to set playlists and have rapid access to vast amounts of music. I will always prefer the hard copy!
A big problem I see with this transition from CD-based systems to PC-based ones is that is assumes a certain level of IT knowledge if you're to keep the data stable and BACKED UP!!! RAID 1 is the way to go with this, but I know a lot of people who'd have no idea to turn a desktop PC into a streaming media server running mirrored hard drives. I think the lessons to be learned will be for the people diving into these formats with little personal computing experience.
This does leave the market open for obscenely-priced 'audiophile' hardware-based solutions, there is an advantage with the Linn and Naim setups in that you can plug 'n play, even if they are already obsolete. ;)
A big problem I see with this transition from CD-based systems to PC-based ones is that is assumes a certain level of IT knowledge if you're to keep the data stable and BACKED UP!!! RAID 1 is the way to go with this, but I know a lot of people who'd have no idea to turn a desktop PC into a streaming media server running mirrored hard drives. I think the lessons to be learned will be for the people diving into these formats with little personal computing experience.
This does leave the market open for obscenely-priced 'audiophile' hardware-based solutions, there is an advantage with the Linn and Naim setups in that you can plug 'n play, even if they are already obsolete.
I totally agree. I definitely come into the 'non-computer literate' category, therefore I'm looking for something that sounds top notch (at least as good as my Sony transport and DAC playing CD) and which also does everything for me at the touch of a button, and crucially, that won't become obsolete after a few months. I like the Linn Akurate DS and Naim HDX for their ease of use but it seems you're saying that they're already obsolete...
I'm only interested in playing music - I have no interest whatsoever in computers or software/hardware related ancillaries to facilitate the downloading of music or fannying about with this and that website, accessories, or whatever, to keep things up to date.
Basically I'm looking for a one-stop 'sorted' solution that will last for a few years without becoming dated, just like it was when buying a CD player.
Any suggestions? Cost is (within reason) not an issue.
Marco.
Well, I'm converted to PC as source and it is all about the experience. I never minded "fiddling," but the romance of fiddling just doesn't hold up to having my entire music collection at my fingertips. That translates into more time listening, greater variety in listening, and more pleasure in listening.
And that's what it's all about.
Marco - nothing is going to become obsolete unless you choose something fussy and overengineered in the first place. A Mac Mini, a pair of hard drives and you're done. Pay someone to set it up for you to automatically mirror everything you put in, if you can't figure it out. Then over the course of the next couple of weeks, you get the joy and education of going through your entire CD collection as you burn it onto the drives (you could pay someone to do this as well, but that kind of misses the point). Don't over-complicate it. Do it all in iTunes, Lossless files. Use the DAC in your Sony. If it doesn't sound as good or better than the Sony itself...it will, don't worry about that either.
Tim
I think the Naim HDX with its 400gb storage capacity limits it from being a truly "one stop, fit and forget player". In lossless format you'd be looking at just over 1,000 albums worth of storage. Not enough in my opinion.
The Linn looks like a better prospect though because it interfaces with external hard drives. Still, all you're really going to want is a high quality PC-based connection to your Sony DAC & I do feel that the PC route is the way to go. Cheaper, much more customisable, upgradable etc. You can get pretty PC cases too.
With regard to playing your music, iTunes is a very easy package to use and is so widely used because it's intuitive and geared to the non-geek. It is worth mentioning that you can control iTunes on your PC via an iPod touch (with very pretty browsing), which will piss over ANY other solution in terms of ease of use.
I would be happy to recommend a potential 'audiophile ready' computer system. :)
Well, I'm converted to PC as source and it is all about the experience. I never minded "fiddling," but the romance of fiddling just doesn't hold up to having my entire music collection at my fingertips. That translates into more time listening, greater variety in listening, and more pleasure in listening.
And that's what it's all about.
Tim
Hi Tim, I've gone the other way from having my entire library at my fingertips to picking up vinyl on a regular basis. One thing about having instant access to all music is having to resist the temptation to skip around albums and tracks like crazy. "On-demand" stuff increases ADD-like symptoms hehehe. Vinyl pretty much forces you to listen through the album, so track skipping doesn't really come to mind. I do like the change of listening habits personally. Plus, it does sound better... ;)
I'm glad that switching to PC-based playback has made you listen to music more & enjoy it, but it had the opposite effect on me in comparison to vinyl. Still, I am returning to the darkside this month with a new DAC, a USB to SPDIF converter and a RAID 1 external hard drive. Will be fun no doubt.
Peter Stockwell
17-08-2008, 18:35
my fingers are hovering over the buy now button for an iPod touch ....
Don't - you'll sell your soul to the devil! :eyebrows:
Yom and Tim, info noted. Cheers!
Marco.
my fingers are hovering over the buy now button for an iPod touch ....
Push that button. You know you want to.
Tim
Peter Stockwell
18-08-2008, 09:26
Push that button. You know you want to.
Tim
:) Ordered 2, one for me and one for my bro'!
(That will make 4 iPods in da house :eyebrows: !!!:cool:)
cheers
Enjoy! That's four more than I have ;)
Marco.
Peter Stockwell
18-08-2008, 16:37
Enjoy! That's four more than I have ;)
Marco.
Admittedly I can't use 4 at once, but the 1st one I bought serves as a hard drive for the car, so I get about 1000 titles in lossless compression through the Car head unit. I used to use a shuffle when I travelled on public transport. The nano is used by Evelyne.
With good earphones, I use shure E2C's with custom moulded earpieces to get outside noise to a minimum, they give very satisfactory results.
The touch I ordered is essentially for the remote function for iTunes when listening through the main rig, but I'm sure I'll find other uses for it.
The iPod & iTunes was a big facture in me buying a mac mini to replace the ancient PC I had.
Can be adictive buying an apple product ...
Thanks for the posts Peter..
Finger hovered over the Buy Now button, and pushed it to order a TC-7510.
Coming over to the Dark Side.:eek:
Bought one meself. Picked up parents this morning and got it running in. D-day tomorrow. Yammy DVD-S2700 in Beresford up against my heavily modded Arcam A5+. If it's close then Arcam will be going. Watch this space...:confused:
StanleyB
23-08-2008, 15:55
You really need a good 48 hours of burn in before some of the previously hidden details start to be apparent. The bass also starts developing its firmness.
I used to have in my room one that had been through the burn in cycle for a while to compare one right out of the box. So visitors could hear the difference burn in makes.
For PC based music storage, the re-clocking and de-jitter circuit in my DAC can make even 128K mp3 samples sound quite respectable.
I always smile when I get emails from customers who comment on the fact that they can again hear details in their sampled music that they thought had been discarded by the ripping process. Many say it is impossible, and on one website I even got a thread dedicated to debunking the likelihood of it even been possible.
Ah, but who else ever used the PCM1716 to its full potential, let alone still uses that chip except for me :eyebrows:?
Recently heard another dac using the pcm1716, heard a lot of units using those:) Not my unit BTW, belongs to somebody I know
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1293/4634025/12749957/331478793.jpg
guess i won't be making a snap decision tomorrow then lol. Will feed back...:)
Lots of upgrade scope on that dac guys.
Just a shame that chip uses internal op-amps for the I/V
Have you tried the Wolfson equivalent to the pcm1716 Stan?
StanleyB
24-08-2008, 03:20
Just a shame that chip uses internal op-amps for the I/V
Have you tried the Wolfson equivalent to the pcm1716 Stan?
You say that about the I/V stage, but I disagree. I spent some time messing about with the PCM1798, which needs external opamps for the I/V process. Straight away, the output stage becomes highly complex. Even apparent simple things like what kind of feedback to use are critical. Tie that into the anti-aliasing filtering method available, and the analogue output stage ends up being a complicated and expensive part of the circuit. You can't get away with low cost opamps in a precision I/V design, which is what a I/V DAC analogue circuit needs. But have you seen how much 4 pieces of OPA627 can set you back?
Chips like the PCM1716 allows for alternative output designs that are far less complex and that can be dirt cheap to implement. One of them is to have a zero opamp output. But the signal is too low at 0.6V for CD inputs on amps.
The funny thing is hat the PCM1716 was redesigned in 2005 in order to conform to RoHS. I use the new version in the TC-7510, but I used the old version in my previous DAC, the TC-7500. The differences between the two are miles apart. The new chip needs a lower soldering temperature in the soldering bath, but modern lead free solder needs a higher temperature. On the 1st production run of the TC-7510 we ended up writing off more than 300 boards before we got the hang of how to handle the new chip. It was a huge expense that nearly put me out of business. But I stuck with the chip, because I discovered that the RoHS version of the PCM1716 was more musical and had more detail than the older version.
I tried the Wolfsson replacement of the PCM1716, the WM8716. I even have a modded version of my DAC fitted with one. It has a higher output, but sound wise I can't pick up any more detail than I get out of the 1716. It is also twice as expensive at the factory gate. If you run that down the food chain all the way past import duties and the VAT man, it would add £15 to £25 to the DAC retail price. I am in a price sensitive region, so I leave that to the modders.
Of course you disagree, I wouldn't expect a manufacturer to use a chip requiring a complex output stage and then selling the thing for less than 200 quid, it wouldn't be worth it, it was just an opinion from somebody who likes to fiddle:eyebrows:
Also please don't think I'm picking or anything at your dac, I commented in another thread I've already heard it and said it was good for the price.
The pic of the dac above costs several times the price of the TC-7510, is it worth it? I didn't think so after listening to it.
Soon as I hear something that beats my diy TDA based dac (as long as the price isn't stupid) I'll gladly buy it and even post my opinion on here;)
Only op-amp I've heard which is good for an I/V stage is AD844 but the reason for that is because it can be implemented as a common base, its one of the few chips that allows you to tap into it, it sounds pretty poor when implemented as the classic op-amp I/V and also needs DC nulling on the input.
Best I/V stage I used is totally discrete, its complex , needed to be matched, obviously costs more and takes more space but to me is the best I've tried so far, these things don't really matter when your into diy.
I personally do not like OPA627AP or the BP grade, they sound fake to my ears used with voltage out dacs or as I/V , adding a CRD to the output to the supply pin with worse PSRR helped but I still didn't like it, infact I don't like many J-fet input based op-amps , some of the AD ones are not too bad especially if the design requires something to be run from a single low supply
I know a lot people where ROHS caused them grief
BTW I've not tried the so called Wolfson upgrade to this chip, I just wondered if you'd tried it
The WM8741 isn't a bad chip either, like most newer devices its differential output though, itsalso supposed to use switched caps for the internal I/V
Peter Stockwell
24-08-2008, 15:53
For PC based music storage, the re-clocking and de-jitter circuit in my DAC can make even 128K mp3 samples sound quite respectable.
I always smile when I get emails ...
I'm listening to internet radio at 128Kbps, and without turning the tuner to the same station to compare, I can't say that it's worse.
It's damn good in fact. The tuner is definitely moving out!
I'm reserving judgement on the CD player, 'cause, got visiters in and I can't listen at normal levels to make a good comparison.
cheers
StanleyB
24-08-2008, 17:47
Also please don't think I'm picking or anything at your dac,
It never even crossed my mind:).
BTW I've not tried the so called Wolfson upgrade to this chip, I just wondered if you'd tried it
Yep. Get on the Wolfsson website and register for a sample of the chip. All you need to do is use a sharp Stanley knife and press down on each leg of the chip right next to the body of the chip. Don't try to cut the legs like you would cut a piece of paper!!! Just press down, and each leg will cut off. Whip the chip out, run the hot iron over each cut leg, and they'll lift off.
If you ever get to do this mod, contact me before you switch on the DAC again. There are two pieces of wires that need to be soldered to the circuit.
I have a Stage-1 mod for the output stage that I charge £30 to do. But anyone competent enough can do it just as easily. Email me for the diagram. No parts required, except for 4 pieces of stiff single strand wire of less than 1mm. I use the ends of a resistor...
The Stage-2 needs 2 caps replaced, but is more suited to 12" bass listening. Makes my NS1000M sound like a new set of speakers.
Sorry Stan, the TC-7510 I heard belonged to somebody else, I just had chance to listen to it at home a while ago
I still can't decide if to get a TC-7510 or wait for a Sabre based unit.
Its mainly so i can start another thread in the diy section to play about with, seems people like to read threads on tweaking etc, the last dac I played about with was the cheapo CS4397 based which seemed quite popular, its already had over 9000 views in the diy section:lol: that one was never intended to be anything serious just a bit of fun on the cheap
The diy AYA I built also had a lot of interest but it was maybe a little expensive and complicated for some to try out
Sound advice on replacing the chips though, beauty with the new SMD ones is that they are fairly cheap so it makes sense to just cut out rather than trying to desolder all the pins risking damage to the track
StanleyB
26-08-2008, 12:01
I still can't decide if to get a TC-7510 or wait for a Sabre based unit.
Wait a while and you could go for the updated 7510 instead;). Should be out in October. Same looks and DAC chip set, but new output stage and headamp stage in order to address a couple of issues that has kept a large set of potential customers from buying one.
Thanks Stan, TBH I don't need the headphone out as I already have a dedicated headphone amp, it would be useful for those wanting a decent all in one unit though.
I don't expect you to discuss the ffine details on here but does the updated 7510 use a different pcb to the current version? what I mean is that can the current one be modified to the latest spec which you are releasing later? its mainly for the interest of users of the current dac thats handy with a soldering iron
StanleyB
26-08-2008, 13:28
I don't expect you to discuss the ffine details on here but does the updated 7510 use a different pcb to the current version? what I mean is that can the current one be modified to the latest spec which you are releasing later? its mainly for the interest of users of the current dac thats handy with a soldering iron
It's a different PCB, but the sockets, switches, and LED positions are in the same location.
:doh:
Plugged in my new TC-7510 last night..and as astonished by the performance as I am, have that same feeling I got when I bought a G5 iMac 2 weeks before the intel iMacs were launched.
Peter Stockwell
27-08-2008, 07:04
:doh:
Plugged in my new TC-7510 last night..and as astonished by the performance as I am, have that same feeling I got when I bought a G5 iMac 2 weeks before the intel iMacs were launched.
You'll have to explain this one for me ?
StanleyB
27-08-2008, 11:30
:doh:
Plugged in my new TC-7510 last night..and as astonished by the performance as I am, have that same feeling I got when I bought a G5 iMac 2 weeks before the intel iMacs were launched.
If you are not happy with the DAC, please send it back for a refund. I rather one happy ex-customer, than a unhappy customer:).
Prince of Darkness
27-08-2008, 11:46
If you are not happy with the DAC, please send it back for a refund. I rather one happy ex-customer, than a unhappy customer:).
I think you misunderstood Steve's post Stan. My impression was that he was very impressed with the DAC, but having found out that a new version is due out soon, felt that he might have got an even better one if he had waited a little longer before buying. Seems to be a very happy customer.:)
StanleyB
27-08-2008, 12:22
I think you misunderstood Steve's post Stan. My impression was that he was very impressed with the DAC, but having found out that a new version is due out soon, felt that he might have got an even better one if he had waited a little longer before buying. Seems to be a very happy customer.:)
The MK6/3 won't disappear. The new one is aimed at those who like swapping opamps and have expensive headphones like the HD650 and K701, which need a different type of headphone amp ability. But many people already have an external headamp, so they won't want to pay the extra cost for what they don't need on my DAC.
It's all about price point. Some people have asked for a DAC with just one input and no headamp. Others want IR control for the volume, etc. etc. An all-in-one solution would cost a lot of money, but not everyone would want to spend on features they don't need. So I am having to develop horses for courses, so to speak.
Its hard work pleasing everybody in this business Stan:eyebrows:
Mind you its good having a range that can suit a wider range of customers, using sockets for the op-amps is a good idea, makes it easier to try any then, ones that are SMD only can easily be fitted on Brown dog adapters which is left up to the customer if they wish to go that way
Not including the Headphone amp maybe the MK6/3 could be bodged to be on par sound wise with the latest versions sound?
People like me have no problem cutting bits of track, adding this and that :)
Peter Stockwell
27-08-2008, 14:14
Others want IR control for the volume, etc. etc.
That would be very welcome in the potato patch;)
StanleyB
27-08-2008, 14:19
Not including the Headphone amp maybe the MK6/3 could be bodged to be on par sound wise with the latest versions sound?
People like me have no problem cutting bits of track, adding this and that :)
Sure. Just send me an email and I can email you a pictorial file of where to cut and paste. It is so quick and simple, you can do it in less than 15 minutes and only need 4 ends of wires cut from a few spare resistors. A sharp hobby knife is also required, and a fine tipped soldering iron.
I can do the mod for anyone interested but who are not fond of modding, as long as they cover P&P, plus solder sniffing and listening time.
If you are not happy with the DAC, please send it back for a refund. I rather one happy ex-customer, than a unhappy customer:).
Kevin is spot on Stan, you misunderstood my post.
I love this dac.
In fact, was thinking of starting another thread about it..I did say I was astonished by the sound.
It was just that on first reading it sounded like I had just purchased it on the same day as you were announcing an upgrade...which you have subsequently clarified,:respect:
( what happened when I bought the imac.... actually I bought 2, for my kids at Christmas, when early in Jan they announced the Intels. I still love the G5 imacs, mind.)
Anyway...more to the point, and just to be absolutely clear, the TC-7510 is nothing short of a revelation. I have heard a few other more expensive machines, but this really blows them out of the water..and thats with the standard power supply.
In fact I'm just off to try the Maplin DC power supply (as suggested elsewhere) because curiosity got the better of me, and at £19.99 its got to be worth a go.
Stan...no worries here, a very happy customer.
Sure. Just send me an email and I can email you a pictorial file of where to cut and paste. It is so quick and simple, you can do it in less than 15 minutes and only need 4 ends of wires cut from a few spare resistors. A sharp hobby knife is also required, and a fine tipped soldering iron.
I can do the mod for anyone interested but who are not fond of modding, as long as they cover P&P, plus solder sniffing and listening time.
Sorry, I keep confusing don't I :) I don't have one yet but the question was mainly for the benefit of existing owners of the MK6/3, Steve as an example
If I do get one of these units I'll also start a thread in the diy section, I don't post anything that would show too much detail as I respect designers IP but for things like a few mods, before and after sound impressions etc should be interesting for people to read
Peter Stockwell
28-08-2008, 08:35
I have the impression that the Dac just "gelled", like it hadn't before. I was listening to a piece by e.s.t "eronel", it's from e.s.t plays monk. I had the impression that i'd just walked into a club/room where a band was just playing in front of me.
My expectations of a music system are that it preserves the emotional and tempral aspects. Imagining and "Air", whatever that is, I don't care about particularly. But, yikes, I had the impression that I was looking into a living breathing space.
Compared with the CD rig, and I've deliberately not done direct comparisons, I think that the fancy cable that I have, the Naim HiLine, is really the difference, there just might, somehow, be a sweeter tone. I'm using a flashback cables RCA to DIN cable for the DAC
The differences between the Dac side and the CD player side are vanishingly slim. An awesome piece of kit!
cheers:cool:
StanleyB
28-08-2008, 09:01
I have the impression that the Dac just "gelled", like it hadn't before.
Comapred with the CD rig, and I've delierately not done direct comparisons, I think that the fancy cable that I have, the Naim HiLine, is really the difference, the just might, somehow, be a sweeter tone. I'm using a flashback cables RCA to DIN cable.
It's the DAC burning in. Many TC-7510 owners would tell you that after a week or so, the 3D soundstage becomes more obvious.
By the way, I have had emails from other parts of the world from people who found themselves on AoS after doing a search for my DAC. They mentioned that it was very informative, and the information more up to date than that found on other sites.
I've not had a chance to listen to mine in it's fully 'run-in' state next to my Arcam but will be this next couple of days.
I have noticed however the the volume pot on the DAC is active at all times. I don't and won't be using a pair of headphones with the unit at any point. I wonder whether the fact that there is a volume pot on the DAC and on my amp which both alter the volume independently is likely to have an effect on things? If the unit is designed to operate like this then is there a recommended position for the volume pot on the DAC to be set at? Is it possible to bypass the volume pot in the DAC thereby giving a cleaner signal?
Thanks in advance.
Peter Stockwell
28-08-2008, 11:44
I have noticed however the the volume pot on the DAC is active at all times. I don't and won't be using a pair of headphones with the unit at any point. ... Is it possible to bypass the volume pot in the DAC thereby giving a cleaner signal?
Thanks in advance.
Are you in France, btw ?
There's fixed and variable outputs on the DAC, just use the fixed outputs, the volume pot is bypassed.
cheers
I wish I were!
Thanks for that - must admit to not having noticed that. Will have a look tonight when I get home.
Peter Stockwell
28-08-2008, 12:05
I wish I were!
Careful what you wish for, you just might get it, and when you don't expect it!
"Merci d'avance" is often written after requests in France.
cheers
The differences between the Dac side and the CD player side are vanishingly slim. An awesome piece of kit!
:
Have to agree Peter.
A mate of mine came over last night (we went off to sunny Crewe to watch Andy Fairweather Low - outstanding)...so just briefly showed him how good the 7510 sounded so far..and compared with my Ikemi it was hard to judge. Next week planning to put it all in his system, up against a Unidisk. That'll be interesting.
Today I found some software called Salling Clicker. Basically makes your mobile phone or PDA into a remote for itunes, with displays of tracks/artwork/playlists/podcasts etc etc. Cost around £16, but terrific in that now I have 13,000 tracks of 76.7 gigs available through my main system, whilst I sit on the sofa. Great alternative to buying an ipod touch as I already have an 80 gig older 'classic' ipod.
After a bit of buggering around with configerations, its working very well on both a Vodafone PDA and a small nokia 6234.
Looking forward to the DAC burning in. Does that need to just to be powered up, or should I loop up some music to play through it?
StanleyB
28-08-2008, 18:00
Looking forward to the DAC burning in. Does that need to just to be powered up, or should I loop up some music to play through it?
Just keep it connected to the mains with the Power button in the OFF state. Give it a regular blast of complex music that spans low to high (JMJ, reggae, hard rock are suitable candidates), in order to agitate the gel in the caps to their fullest so that they loosen up on the dynamics and spatial response. Sounds like a bit of snake oil, but you'll have the last laugh after carrying out that procedure.
...go on, give us a clue. JMJ ???
Peter Stockwell
28-08-2008, 19:52
Just keep it connected to the mains with the Power button in the OFF state.
quoi ?
StanleyB
28-08-2008, 21:35
quoi ?
:eyebrows:
Peter Stockwell
29-08-2008, 08:45
C'mon Stan, tell me why ???
Ooooh... can I join in?
Ali has sent me his TC7510 to play with but I haven't had chance to try it yet as I need to dig out a psu and battery.
Ali has inadvertently sent me his Philishave PS. Which was nice! :lolsign:
I've just put in an order for a Beresford TC-7510 and coax. :)
Got to see what all the fuss is about!
purite audio
30-08-2008, 10:03
I bought one as part of a large DAC trial, it does what it says.
StanleyB
30-08-2008, 11:01
I've just put in an order for a Beresford TC-7510 and coax. :)
Got to see what all the fuss is about!
Was it you who emailed me to change the address? I keep getting my reply email bounced back. Everything is sorted though;).
StanleyB
01-09-2008, 13:35
I have been experimenting with a hard drive based system that can connect directly to my DAC, without the need for a PC. The unit in question is available from http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=221816&source=1
I am looking at getting a small TV off eBay and wire that to the hard drive so I can see the drive contents. I am using my big TV at the moment for that.
So far the results are darn good. Well recommended. It handles both movies and audio files. Well recommended.
Peter Stockwell
02-09-2008, 08:17
Stan,
I think you've just given us all a :doh: moment. This idea is blindingly obvious. I was thinking of an appleTV, which is very nice industrial design and would look very cute, but this mediacentre harddrive idea is so much cheaper, and for many so much more versatile.
I was thinking iMac for main computer system and macmini headless onto the main rig, this way I can get HiRes output from the build in SPDIF. But this could be a solution as long as the necessary files could be put there and then easily selected.
Great Stuff :)
StanleyB
02-09-2008, 09:35
It is dead easy to use. You use your PC to add the files and create the folders. You can even hide directories with XXX content;).
The external HD has a SCART and an additional video output.
I'll charge up the old camera and take some pics.
STan
Peter ...is this kit mac compatible?
Looks like it supports windows only.
StanleyB
02-09-2008, 18:19
Peter ...is this kit mac compatible?
Looks like it supports windows only.
MAC owners are my 3rd largest group of customers. Most of them have a Macbook, since it sports an optical output via the headphone socket, or they have an Airport Express.
Do a search on mac.com as well or on the what hifi website.
STan
Hi Stan
I'm using my new 7510 fed by an Airport Express receiving either itunes or airfoil flac files (from Cog) from either my old powerbook, or a G5 iMac.
My thoughts had turned to getting a better fed signal (hard wired rather than wireless)...so am interested in your suggestion of a hard drive. However, looking at the Maplins site, looks like the 500GB Media Player v2.0 is PC only...or can it be loaded by a Mac?
StanleyB
02-09-2008, 19:31
My thoughts had turned to getting a better fed signal (hard wired rather than wireless)...so am interested in your suggestion of a hard drive. However, looking at the Maplins site, looks like the 500GB Media Player v2.0 is PC only...or can it be loaded by a Mac?
I don't see any mention of a MAC driver software on it. I have to look dig up the manual and see if there is a website listed so we can se if they have any sort of MAC capability.
StanleyB
03-09-2008, 16:45
No luck on the MAC connection. Only PC software is listed.
Ooooh... can I join in?
Ali has sent me his TC7510 to play with but I haven't had chance to try it yet as I need to dig out a psu and battery.
Finally got round to having a play.
It's actually rather good! :) :clap:
Ali Tait
04-09-2008, 21:14
Have you tried it with a battery supply Mike? How does it compare to a wall wart?
Peter Stockwell
01-10-2008, 17:44
So to put a cat with pigeon, How hiogh do you have to go to beat Stan's Dac ?
Lavry?
Benchmark?
Berkely audio designs ?
cheers
StanleyB
01-10-2008, 19:34
You can go for my anti-aliasing filter mod. £40 inc return postage:). Or if you are a headphone junkie as well, wait for the 7510+.
Posted mine off today,cant wait for its return.
Phil
thrunobulaxx
01-10-2008, 21:30
You can go for my anti-aliasing filter mod. £40 inc return postage:). Or if you are a headphone junkie as well, wait for the 7510+.
:scratch: whats this then Stanley? have you been keeping me in the dark ?:lol:
StanleyB
02-10-2008, 09:39
:scratch: whats this then Stanley? have you been keeping me in the dark ?:lol:
I'll send you test unit to compare.
Stan the man rang me today to explain what mods he had done to my Beresford dac,and when to expect its return.
I thought what other manufacturers would have bothered to do that.
got the unit back today,well worth the cost,the bass is far better,more detail,better seperation,and its not burnt in yet.:)
Now i've had more time to listen i am very pleased with the mod Stan has done on the dac.
More bass,it has more bounce,the mid is very open and clear,top end is extended,you can hear more decay.it has far more detail.
It sounds faster than the old unit,more foot tappy,and it sounds bigger,it just makes you want to listen,i used to use my squeezebox just for internet radio and background music and use the saturn for serious listening,now i can listen to either and feel i'm not missing out on anything.
Its weird how it makes 128kb mp3 sound nearly as good as 320kb mp3.I can honestly say i've never heard mp3 sound so good.
Stans onto a winner here,its the best £40 i've ever spent on an upgrade.i could not go back to the unit as it was.Very highly recommended
Nice one, mate. It's always good to hear when an upgrade is successful. Mind you, Stan knows his stuff. Enjoy! :smoking:
Marco.
jandl100
07-10-2008, 09:52
Stans onto a winner here,its the best £40 i've ever spent on an upgrade.i could not go back to the unit as it was.Very highly recommended
Interesting! I may well be in need of a small hi-performance DAC in the near future - is the "Acorn3a Beresford DAC" available for sale from Stan?
StanleyB
07-10-2008, 10:22
Interesting! I may well be in need of a small hi-performance DAC in the near future - is the "Acorn3a Beresford DAC" available for sale from Stan?
It is available by special order, or the changes can be done on an existing DAC. I can make these particular changes on any version from MK1 to MK6/3, unlike some previous mods.
Stan
I'm listening to internet radio at 128Kbps, and without turning the tuner to the same station to compare, I can't say that it's worse.
It's damn good in fact. The tuner is definitely moving out!
From my welcome notes:
In the lounge I now have a Beresford DAC driving a Quad 405-2 bought on eBay and upgraded by 405man. It drives the Quart 980s tower loudspeakers which still sound extremely fine. The DAC receives input form a Virgin Media Box for TV (clearly) and radio. Cable Radio (128Kb/s at MP2?) is at least as good as the Quad tuner, although I will accept that may not be a fair comparison as the only RF input I can get to the tuner is from the cable (marginal reception area).
So:
128Kb/s + Beresford beats Quad Tuner
That would be very welcome in the potato patch;)
The remote volume?
Now I would vote for that too.
One for Stanley:
Is there a list of Mods you do, the costs, and a description of the advantages they offer?
StanleyB
17-10-2008, 11:54
The only mod I now do is the mod21. That one basically converts the CD audio bandwidth specification that was aimed at the 16 bit/44.1KHz to the 24 bit/96KHz spec that the DAC supports. So you get a bit more resolution in the sound. Most noticeable in the bass extension lower down, better detail in the fundamental harmonics of say guitar and piano, and a better attack & decay rate in the sound.
Love the new Dac Stan, much better and its still running in.
The mod you described..is it a sort of upsampling similar to what the Cambridge CD players and the Dacmagic does?
StanleyB
22-10-2008, 16:44
Naah Gary. I don't go for all them high tech pretentious stuff. Reading on a few other sites the DacMagic has so far received a very cool reception from the first buyers. That was to be expected with the upsampling technology. It softens up hard rock, to put it politely. Kinda like Durex:lol:.
My mod discards the 16 bit/44KHz brick wall specs that might have been OK in the 80's when Non Oversampling DAC chips were the only kids in town. Technology has moved on, but D to A engineers have got stuck in a time warp. I blame that on the study material they are fed at uni. What's the purpose of developing 24 bit/96KHz chips when a stupid 16/44.1 filter is bolted at the end of it? Are engineers scared the sound output might catch an unmentionable decease:confused:? I am not the type of guy to follow convention or take the word of anyone in this field who preach that 'it ain't possible'. That's what many said about a budget DAC with 4 selectable inputs, and I proved them wrong;).
With the mod I have binned the brick wall filter and designed my own. It's a combination of a Class A opamp output stage and a feedback filter with a bottom cut off frequency well below the lower audio passband of 20Hz, and well above the upper passband of 20KHz. So you don't have any cross over distortion, and you don't have a cut off of the subsonic and supersonic frequencies. A lot more musical info that would otherwise have been discarded by a brick wall filter is now allowed to reach the speaker voice coils. In essence, Red Book has been updated to 24 bit.
Did you notice that you can now get subwoofer performance from the DAC, even without a subwoofer:eyebrows:? And have you paid attention to those fundamental harmonics on guitar and piano?
The Man speaks the truth.
Its Stunning. Whatever he's done its bloody good.
The Dacs been running in for a couple of days...and I cant believe the improvement to the Mk6/III. Wonderful.
If I thought it was shit I would say so (Stan knows that :)) but this thing plays music in a way I haven't heard since I last listened to a mate's Linn LP12 turntable.
Stans right, there is SO MUCH MORE musical detail getting through, and not in a "hifi" kind of way....you just pick up on little fret noises, breath sounds...guitars SOUND like guitars...and have size and weight behind them. Its very VERY musical...forget the hifi.
This thing really rocks - hard.
From cold it sounded "bigger" than the old Dac, and you could tell the bass was through the floor. But it sounded a bit "hifi", a bit too up-front I suppose.
As it was warming up it started changing its character quite markedly. Whereas initially everything in the mix was coming at you all on one layer, and was a bit congested in the middle, after a while - things in the song started moving into their right places in the soundstage. Voices became less forward, but a lot clearer and "realistic" sounding. Voices had weight and space all around them. Bass guitars became rock solid, more focussed and had very realistic sounding decay. You could tell whether the bass player was using a plectrum or his fingers.
I noticed all this stuff without even trying - it kept grabbing my attention.
I'm noticing all sorts of new stuff engineered in the studio on albums I've had for years.
The Beatles I've noticed in particular. Theres songs where they are using two piano's playing at the same time, and you can tell the tonal differences between them and where they dont QUITE get them playing together perfectly. Before I had just thought there was one.
Stuff like that.
Old Phil Spector 60s "wall of sound" recordings too - my God these sound almost holographic. No kidding. Its in the room.
The sensation of the speakers disappearing and multiple layers of production coming from the wall in front of you is not like anything I've heard in my system before - at least not since I had my Rega 3/K9 years ago, and I dont remember it being this vivid.
Heres a good one, kind of best illustrates what I'm talking about.
I was reading the paper with the squeezebox on random, and the Ramones came on. I ripped the original CD in Flac lossless, but hey - its the Ramones right?
Compressed guitar punk music played at 11?
I know the album very well, I play it in the car a lot, so when it came on through the new Dac, I thought it was a live recording of the song I didn't know I had from a compilation CD or whatever.
It sounded LIVE - the singer was well in front of the guitars, drums were "thwacking" and sounding very realistic and I could actually make out what the lyrics were! :)
After a minute or so I realised that it was the same recording I thought I knew like the back of my hand. It was spooky.
Classical music sounds absolutely massive, its easy to tell the size of the venue from a recording...I've never had this in my system before.
Dynamics start and stop instantly with decay and resonance if its in a recording...it can feel almost "physical". bass is solid and through the floor. The treble shimmers and can be incisive and hard hitting (think "Theme from Shaft" cymbals cutting through the air so much you can feel them) or very sweet and smooth, think Eva Cassidy or Norah Jones....its beguiling.
So uhm....yeah. :)
Bravo.
So...just to clarify Stan...The mod21 is a mod to the existing Beresford TC7510 mk3 that you currently sell ?
thanks
Steve
StanleyB
23-10-2008, 10:52
The MOD21 can be fitted to any of the versions I ever sold. So even if you got a two year old version it can be upgraded.
Thanks Stan.
So, my 2 month old TC 7510 will not have this mod.
I am in need of another (its addictive!!)...so was wondering if the mod was now built in, or sounds more like it is as it says on the tin...a mod.
StanleyB
23-10-2008, 12:07
The mod will be on the more expensive 7510+ when that comes out in November/December. The unstable currency exchanges have been dogging me...
I haven't been fitting the mod as standard on the 6/3 since I have had so many problems with people complaining on other sites about the frequency at which I used to upgrade the DAC. So you had folks asking for a 'free' upgrade to the latest version. Doing it this way, I avoid those requests:).
jandl100
23-10-2008, 12:10
Hey Stan! ... still waitin' here to try your latest! ;)
I'm a feelin' all left out & lonely :(
:)
StanleyB
23-10-2008, 12:20
Hey Stan! ... still waitin' here to try your latest! ;)
I'm a feelin' all left out & lonely :(
:)
Not long to go Jerry;).
The mod will be on the more expensive 7510+ when that comes out in November/December. The unstable currency exchanges have been dogging me...
I haven't been fitting the mod as standard on the 6/3 since I have had so many problems with people complaining on other sites about the frequency at which I used to upgrade the DAC. So you had folks asking for a 'free' upgrade to the latest version. Doing it this way, I avoid those requests:).
Thats cool Stan..and perfectly understandable.
At least I have the option to mod my existing unit.
StanleyB
23-10-2008, 12:41
At least I have the option to mod my existing unit.
That's one important thing I keep in mind when I experiment with mods. I got some right complicated ones that even involves substituting the DAC chip, but I didn't feel happy about asking folks to spend more than the cost of the DAC on an upgrade with just a minor audible improvement.
Stan,
Regarding the 7510+...
I know you are improving the headphone amp side of things for those that listen with expensive cans, but apart from that, how do you see the 7510+ comparing to the Mk6/III with the Mod21 applied.
With the Mk6/III Virtual DC circuit and the Mod21....is the 7510+ going to be THAT much better, for someone who doesn;t use the headphone amp side of the Dac?
Thanks.
G.
StanleyB
23-10-2008, 13:30
Stan,
Regarding the 7510+...
I know you are improving the headphone amp side of things for those that listen with expensive cans, but apart from that, how do you see the 7510+ comparing to the Mk6/III with the Mod21 applied.
With the Mk6/III Virtual DC circuit and the Mod21....is the 7510+ going to be THAT much better, for someone who doesn;t use the headphone amp side of the Dac?
Thanks.
G.
I can only do so much with the existing PCB. Anything more dramatic sounding required a new PCB. So start saving for a 2nd unit:).
I can only do so much with the existing PCB. Anything more dramatic sounding required a new PCB. So start saving for a 2nd unit:).
What plans have you got beyond the 7510+, Stanley? And in what time frame?
StanleyB
23-10-2008, 14:07
I go with the flow Brian. Some of the things I would like to do require micro controller programming skills. And that is out of my range of skills right now. So first I got to teach myself micro controller programming, and then go from there. The DAC chip I use can be accessed and modified via software, which then opens up a whole new range of possibilities.
I can only do so much with the existing PCB. Anything more dramatic sounding required a new PCB. So start saving for a 2nd unit:).
Yeah fair enough, but do you expect the new PCB design to sound a LOT better than the MK6/III with Mod21?
You have got any improvements you said would come about spot on so far, and I'm a guy that likes specifics! ;)
G.
jandl100
23-10-2008, 15:01
Cautionary tale .... a few years back an entrepreneur came out with a great product. It was really original and good value. Along with the usual sales blurb he said "this is a great product but I've got plans for something even better". Everyone waited for the next generation to come along, he made few sales of his Mk1 and couldn't then afford to bring out his Mk2. You get the moral of the story ;)?.
Ali Tait
23-10-2008, 18:10
Ok,so just to be totally clear about this,the 7510+ will sound better than having a 6/III upgraded? I take it the 7510+ has a different pcb to the 6/III?
Just a thought...
Maybe Stan wants to keep things under wraps....
All I can say is that the latest mod makes for a VERY big step up in forgetting the hifi, and discovering (rediscovering?) music you thought you knew.
I bought my first Dac (Mark 4 I think?) because of the price/performance ratio. If a new product is quite expensive it might not be for me.
I suppose the next step up is a Stello at around £450??
StanleyB
23-10-2008, 18:35
Yeah fair enough, but do you expect the new PCB design to sound a LOT better than the MK6/III with Mod21?
At around £200 I would hope so:). Might even be more if the £ keeps getting devalued.
At around £200 I would hope so:). Might even be more if the £ keeps getting devalued.
MM
At £150 I might be tempted even though I have brand new current model, but it might be worth an audition.
What I really miss, having taken a analogue preamp out of the system is a remote volume control.
The output from my Virgin media box is fixed so I have to use the DAC's variable output- thats OK for TV because the volume can be set and left, but if I'm listening to Radio 3 or Classic FM I like to turn the announcements down - they are always too loud on a good HiFi because they suppose the portable radio.
WHEN I get my Sqeezebox I will have a digital volume control. I wonder how much it's use will degrade the music, if I use it near maximum?
So, Stanley, a nice analogue volume control would be nice sometime.
I suppose I could fit a motorised pot in the Quad 405!
Hi Brian,
I have a Squeezebox too, and whilst I have disabled the digital volume, I would use it if I had the need to, and I'm quite picky about tweaking to get the best out of it.
The guys on the Logitech forums (Audiophile section) suggest its not too much an impact to use the volume control - if any.
G.
The guys on the Logitech forums (Audiophile section) suggest its not too much an impact to use the volume control - if any.
That is what I am hoping. Classic FM I can get off the Squeezebox at 128Kb/s - as good as off my Virgin Box, but Radio 3 is at present only available at 64Kb/s, and it's on Music Radio that I like to change the volume frequently. And I guess I will want to set the volume for each ripped CD I play.
But I have to get the Squeezebox yet! No stock in the country at sensible prices.
StanleyB
13-01-2009, 21:04
Digging up an old thread here, but now that some of you guys have had the mod done, can you provide any reference for others who are thinking about the mod what differences they should look out for in the sound? I might be far too biased in my comments. All help appreciated since AoS is now more or less THE reference source for the TC-7510 and MOD21.
Stan
Stratmangler
13-01-2009, 22:11
The guys on the Logitech forums (Audiophile section) suggest its not too much an impact to use the volume control - if any.
My experiences with using the Squeezebox volume control is that it robs the life from the music.
Don't touch it, it ain't worth bothering with !
Chris:)
Stratmangler
13-01-2009, 22:18
Radio 3 is at present only available at 64Kb/s, and it's on Music Radio that I like to change the volume frequently. And I guess I will want to set the volume for each ripped CD I play.
What version of Squeezecenter are you using ? There is a BBC iPlayer plugin that streams Radio 3 at 128kbs, and I use this plugin - haven't even bothered with the apocryphal AlienBBC.
Just don't bother with the Squeezebox volume control !
Chris:)
Stratmangler
13-01-2009, 22:24
I may have overstated my dislike of the digital volume control on the Squeezebox, but I really disike what happens to the sound when it is used - IMHO you are much better setting the thing to maximum output and adjusting volume by some other means.
I have an aversion to digital volume controls in general.
Chris:)
Stratmangler
13-01-2009, 22:30
But I have to get the Squeezebox yet! No stock in the country at sensible prices.
Have you tried these guys ? http://www.broadbandstuff.co.uk/product_info.php?sku=Logitech_Squeezebox_3_Wireles s_Music_Player&products_id=981
Or Amazon ?
Chris:)
I think it would be a good idea if those with the MOD21 fitted could give their impressions for the benefit of those who have been searching the Net for information about the MOD21 and its 'before' and 'after' differences.
Let's hear it guys :)
Marco.
Stratmangler
13-01-2009, 22:53
I think it would be a good idea if those with the MOD21 fitted could give their impressions for the benefit of those who have been searching the Net for information about the MOD21 and its 'before' and 'after' differences.
Let's hear it guys :)
Marco.
With you there Marco. I've yet to get around to doing the mod, but I'm more than happy to post my findings afterwards.
Chris:)
Come on, all those TC-7510 owners out there, stop slacking , try the mod and post some opinions:lol:
I would like to but since I have to ship it from the Netherlands, I guess I can better buy a 6/4 version or a 7510+, money- or timewise.
In a nutshell I would say from going from the 6/3 to the MOD21 a tighter bass, bigger soundstage and another reduction in the veil. Certainly I found it a significant improvement. I had it done last year and the CD5x hasn't been on since. I'm buying CD's, ripping and streaming now.
jandl100
16-01-2009, 09:03
I've a Beta-test version of Stan's DAC at the moment .... with the mod21.
Up until I received that unit I have been a very happy owner of the old Mk3 version. I tried a 6/3 and actually preferred the Mk3. The Mk3 also happily saw off a £3.5k Audio Synthesis DAX Decade.
The latest unit though is another kettle of fish altogether. A more musically sopisticated and focussed sound, purer - it makes my old Mk3 sound a bit coarse and clunky. A great DAC, imho.
Ali Tait
16-01-2009, 09:22
Bit confused here Jerry.Have you got a 7510 or a 7510+ on test? If it's the the + version,I understood the mod21 doesn't apply as it's a different circuit?
Marco,Iv'e done part of the mod21 in that I've bridged the resistors and fitted Black Gate FK's.I have some opamps but haven't had a chance to fit them yet,but even what I have done has been a major step forward.Much deeper and better defined bass,clearer treble and a better soundstage.Black Gates are very good indeed,though they can take an age to break in.I need to get the opamps fitted as Stan says this is the part of the mod that makes the biggest difference,so i'm expecting another major advance in sound.The DAC is currently being fed from the Sky+ box,and sounds frankly brilliant!
Peter Stockwell
16-01-2009, 09:34
Is the 7510+ ready to come out of the pipe ?
This is a cut and paste from the post i sent in october,i've used the dac everyday since,i love the thing................(from oct 08)>>Now i've had more time to listen i am very pleased with the mod Stan has done on the dac.
More bass,it has more bounce,the mid is very open and clear,top end is extended,you can hear more decay.it has far more detail.
It sounds faster than the old unit,more foot tappy,and it sounds bigger,it just makes you want to listen,i used to use my squeezebox just for internet radio and background music and use the saturn for serious listening,now i can listen to either and feel i'm not missing out on anything.
Its weird how it makes 128kb mp3 sound nearly as good as 320kb mp3.I can honestly say i've never heard mp3 sound so good.
Stans onto a winner here,its the best £40 i've ever spent on an upgrade.i could not go back to the unit as it was.Very highly recommended
My experiences with using the Squeezebox volume control is that it robs the life from the music.
Don't touch it, it ain't worth bothering with !
Chris:)
It depends on how much digital attenuation you use, which is why the Transporter has internal jumpers so you can set the output to match the input sensitivity of the power amplifier.
I get the cleanest sound taking a variable output from the Squeezebox to the Beresford DAC and the fixed out from the DAC to the power amp. I need to use no more than 20% attenuation (no less than 80% volume) for normal listening. 90% volume would commonly be used in this mode.
I don't do it that way because I have three digital inputs to the DAC - Squeezebox, Virgin Cable Box and TV. I take the variable output from the Beresford to the power amp because the TV and Virgin box have no variable outs. This is my second best option.
I have a third option: fixed out from the Squeezebox into the Beresford DAC and fixed output from the DAC into a Quad 77 Amp. Pre-amp output from that box to the power amp. That gives me a remote controlled analogue volume control and analogue source switching. It is the worst option, I guess because it is the longest replay chain.
Conclusion, don't dismiss the digital volume control in the Squeezebox: it can be your best option if used sensibly.
I would be interested to hear if the improved variable output of Stanley's new "plus" box changes the ranking.
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