What to look for in headphones?

[magiccarpetride]

I am not a headphone type of a guy, and I don't know much about them. I must admit, however, that they may come handy for those occasions when the wife would rather watch TV, and I'd rather listen to my new super exciting CD.

The trouble is, any headphones I've ever tried felt extremely awkward to me. They spook me out, feel very unnatural, even disorienting.

Because of that, I've decided not to spend any serious money on headphones, and went for Grado SR80s. I thought, these cans come with pretty good reputation, they seem to be a decent entry level phones, and I'll eventually get used to them.

Not a chance. I positively hate listening to anything through these cans. The music through Grado sounds so plastic, so contrived and enforced. So now I've realized the time is coming for an upgrade.

But, unlike with speakers etc., with cans I don't really know what to look for. I would certainly welcome any guidance, recommendations, etc.

[technobear]

There are many types of headphone:

- in ear monitor (IEM) fits into the ear canal

- earbuds (sit in the ear lobe but not inserted into the canal)

- on-ear phones

- over-ear phones

For portable use I like IEM's.

For home use I like over-ear phones. They tend to have better long-time listening comfort than on-ear types.

For over-ear phones, I guess the most obvious first choice is between open-back and closed-back cans (there are a few semi-open that attempt to give you some of the advantages of both types).

A closed back phone will generally have more bass. Some of the better ones are like wearing a personal sub. It will generally leak less noise to your surroundings (but not always). It will tend to have a smaller sounstage that resides inside the head.

An open back phone will generally have less bass. They can still have very good quality bass. It's just less apparent in the mix. They tend to sound more open and airy and the soundstage feels like it extends a bit beyond the confines of your head.

These are of course sweeping generalisations but you have to start somewhere.

I suggest that you listen to some examples of both types.

Much depends on the type of music you like. Many head-fiers have more than one set of phones depending on what they want to listen to and I can see their point.

Music that is already bass-heavy might sound brilliant on an open-backed phone but be overpowering on a closed-back one.

Conversely music where the bass is a bit anaemic might sound too thin on an open backed phone and be better served by a closed back model.

Plus we all hear differently anyway so you really do have to go and listen to some.

Heavens! I've written a book :lolsign:

What is it that spooks you out? Is it the sound or the feel and comfort?

[magiccarpetride]

What is it that spooks you out? Is it the sound or the feel and comfort?

Thanks Chris. I find the sound through headphones to be very unlife-like. There is certain distinct artificiality to it that feels very disorienting. I guess it is probably due to the fact that I'm not hearing the room, and hence I feel lost in the limbo, so to speak.

[technobear]

Hmmm. Well you should be hearing the room with the Grado's as they are open-backed, are they not?

I have found that a lot of headphones fall down in the bass because you can feel the phones vibrating and basically trying too hard. I've found that the AT ATH-M50 doesn't have this problem. The bass sounds pretty realistic and the phones don't shake to give the game away. The Denon D2000 etc. do this well too.

Another reason phones sound fake is the left-right issue. When you listen to speakers, both of your ears hear sound from both of your speakers. The sound is slightly delayed from the speaker that is furthest from each ear. In a headphone, your left ear hears only the left channel and your right ear hears only the right channel. This leads to a widening of the soundstage with you stuck in the middle and does sound quite fake.

Some headphone amps have a facility called crossfeed which helps to lessen this effect by feeding some left channel sound to the right ear and vice versa with suitable delays. The best implementation of this is in the SPL Phonitor which can perform other tricks to make the headphone experience more speaker like:

http://www.spl.info/fileadmin/user_upload/fotos/Phonitor_black_front.jpg

I'm definitely toying with getting one of these :stalks:

More here: http://www.spl.info/index.php?id=360&L=1

It's expensive but there are cheaper options like the Meier Corda range - still not exactly cheap though.

[magiccarpetride]

Hmmm. Well you should be hearing the room with the Grado's as they are open-backed, are they not?

Yes, they are open-backed (is that a word?)

I just find that the sweetness, the breathtaking naturalness of the sound that I'm enjoying so much through my Maggies, completely disappears the moment I put Grado cans on. Even though all the musical details are pretty much still with me when I switch to the phones, these details all feel artificial to me. Almost like I'm experiencing a photocopy of the familiar music.

Extremely heartbreaking, to say the least.

[technobear]

Ah, now I think I see where you're coming from :)

Audez'e LCD-2

HifiMAN HE5-LE or HE-6

Denon AH-D7000

Beyerdynamic TESLA T1

Stax (too many to list - the top models can better all of the above)

[Reid Malenfant]

Some headphone amps have a facility called crossfeed which helps to lessen this effect by feeding some left channel sound to the right ear and vice versa with suitable delays. The best implementation of this is in the SPL Phonitor which can perform other tricks to make the headphone experience more speaker like:

http://www.spl.info/fileadmin/user_upload/fotos/Phonitor_black_front.jpg

I'm definitely toying with getting one of these :stalks:

More here: http://www.spl.info/index.php?id=360&L=1

It's expensive but there are cheaper options like the Meier Corda range - still not exactly cheap though.
As you might not have seen my question regarding this Phonitor in another thread where you pictured it, i'll ask here :)

Does this device simulate a pair of stereo speakers in headphones? IE will it make the sound appear as if it's coming from in front of you & give the effect of a stound stage like stereo speakers do?

If so then it's gotta be worth how ever much they are asking :eyebrows: I can't stand the way headphones make it all sound "in your head"..

E2A:- Apologies as i guess i should audition them to find out, however, this might not be easy so i'm just asking if you happen to know if that is what this beast is capable of ;)

[technobear]

Does this device simulate a pair of stereo speakers in headphones? IE will it make the sound appear as if it's coming from in front of you & give the effect of a stound stage like stereo speakers do?

This review explains it better than I can:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec08/articles/SPLphonitor.htm

[Reid Malenfant]

Cheers Chris, i'll read it tomorrow ;)

Bests to you & ta again :)

[Pete The Cat]

Thanks Chris. I find the sound through headphones to be very unlife-like. There is certain distinct artificiality to it that feels very disorienting. I guess it is probably due to the fact that I'm not hearing the room, and hence I feel lost in the limbo, so to speak.

Headphones and loudspeakers are different ballgames and I don't think it's worth trying to compare them or get the former to match the latter. Maybe like the difference between TV and cinema ? You'll never "feel" the sound of headphones for one thing. You may hear some extra detail though.

Once you get to terms with this you can enjoy them for what they are :)

The main brands tend to have a house sound, eg most Grados are upfront and colourful whereas most Sennheisers are laid back and neutral. It's worth trying a few out as with any piece of kit. If you're using them in the same room as others it's worth checking how much noise open-backed phones are letting out, you'll be surprised how loud / irritating they can be to the non-user. Comfort over a long session is also important.

In common with speakers they're significantly down to individual taste. Enjoy the journey...

Pete

[Welder]

Well, well, not a mention of possibly the most important factor; comfort.
It doesn’t matter how good they sound if wearing them is a pain in the arse does it, coz you just wont use them :mental:

[technobear]

All the 'phones I listed in post #6 are comfortable. The Denon's particularly seem to always get comments about how comfy they are.

[jantheman]

Well, well, not a mention of possibly the most important factor; comfort.
It doesn’t matter how good they sound if wearing them is a pain in the arse does it, coz you just wont use them :mental:
+1

[AmpCity]

One thing with headphones is that it is hard to get that sense of 'scale' that you get with a loudspeaker; sometimes it can feel like the sound is coming from inside your head. A decent headphone amplifier can always solve that but it means investing in another amp alongside the headphones themselves, definitely worth it though as you can get a system rivalling any speaker setup for a hellavu lot less! Also is wife and neighbor friendly.

I always found Grados way too 'metallic,' very sharp sounding indeed and requires careful amp matching. Too aggressive for my tastes. Denons are nice, have an emphasis in the mid bass region which can give quite a satisfying sound but can sometimes sound slightly muffled; depends on what you are looking for really. The Audeze and Hifiman are truly something to behold though, absolutely stunning and I've been up through the night listening to them, simply too hard to put them down! The Sennheiser HD650's are decent as well.

If anyone wants to demo the Hifiman HE-5LE then just let me know!

Most full-size headphones are fairly comfortable as long as the headband isn't too small. IEMs can be tricky as they are a generic shape and the profile of everyones ears are wildly different. Have you ever considered customs? They are obviously more expensive but worth the investment for the comfort and isolation alone, and then there is the wildly better SQ. Ultimate Ears, JH Audio, and ACS are the three main brands for customs atm, but we will soon be launching Unique Melody in the UK - cheaper than anything out there but offers a better build quality and SQ is equal if not better. Current reviews are really good, but there should be a review in Hifi Choice soon enough...

[magiccarpetride]

I always found Grados way too 'metallic,' very sharp sounding indeed and requires careful amp matching. Too aggressive for my tastes.

Exactly! You hit the nail on the head -- that's exactly how I feel, even when listening to them through the gatorized Caiman.

[Welder]

“that's exactly how I feel, even when listening to them through the gatorized Caiman.”

I would have thought that might have told you all you need to know Alex.
Get a proper headphone amp.

[AmpCity]

Dedicated headphone amp is a good idea though the Grados dont necessarily scale upwards with pricier amps in the same way that the HD650 does, however. Maybe look into a tube amp?

You may also want to try the L-Cush pads, I think TTVJ have them. People say that it helps somewhat but I can't comment as I've not used them.

[magiccarpetride]

“that's exactly how I feel, even when listening to them through the gatorized Caiman.”

I would have thought that might have told you all you need to know Alex.
Get a proper headphone amp.

See, I wasn't aware of that. Many people told me that phones through a gatorized Caiman equals bees knees. This is the first time I hear otherwise:scratch:

[Stratmangler]

Exactly! You hit the nail on the head -- that's exactly how I feel, even when listening to them through the gatorized Caiman.

I am delighted with the sound I get with my Caiman/Gator/Goldring DR150 Headphones.

Try some other headphones - it could just be the Grados that you don't like.
I have read comments about the Grados being "brightly lit".

The headphone amp in the Caiman/Gator is very good, although my experience of using headphones is quite limited.
I may be able to borrow some Sennheiser HD600 or HD650 (can't remember which model, but it's one or the other) and see how I get on with them - I can report back if you like.

[Welder]

I don’t mean to upset anyone but I think you need to face a few simple truths Alex.

The Caimen Dac is by most reports a fine Dac but it’s a budget Dac Alex, much like the HRT 11, the MF V Dac, even with the mods.

I’ll grant that the cost of a particular component doesn’t necessarily reflect its performance. However, the more things a single box component attempts to do (SPDIF, USB, XLR, Headphone Amp, Filters, Switches, Displays, Finish etc etc, the less is spent on the primary function. All these extras cost money, lots compared to the basic components.

It may as a Dac perform far out of its class, but to put things into perspective, my headphone amp costs twice as much in kit form as the ready built complete Caiman.
Before people start kicking off, the headphone stage in the Caimen may be very good but I think even Stan would admit, it’s an extra; he built a Dac, not a headphone amp.

Next, while a headphone amp doesn’t have to provide large quantities of power, it does have to do what a pre amp (plus a bit) would have to do in a speaker amp setup.
How much is a decent pre amp these days?

It only gets worse; each dollar you spend doesn’t unfortunately give a linear improvement in performance, think more logarithmic from budget to high mid and then negligible after that.

You want apparently a top quality headphone listening experience so its either put your hand in your pocket and think about shelling out a couple of grand or lower your expectations.
Even at this price range you’ll have to accept that headphone listening isn’t really comparable to listening to your Maggies.

The exception to the above is when you make or mod componants, then your talking value and performance.

[AmpCity]

Have to agree with John to be honest. The Beresford is undoubtedly an excellent product but there is a lot more to be had, not necessarily at the same price level but definitely if you were to get a dedicated DAC & headamp. I find that all in one units are a good way to get into the headphone game but you quickly outgrow them - much like how people move from an integrated amp to a pre/power combo.

Some headphones do require a crazy amount of current - the planar magnetic HE-6 only performs its best with a speaker amp!

[Maximum]

Didn't Stan say he is designing a headphone amp now?

I have been looking myself, and noticed the Graham Slee Novo and the Matrix M-stage. A lot of these amps seem quite expensive.

I have also been wondering how much benefit the 7520/Caiman would get from a pot upgrade.

[magiccarpetride]

I don’t mean to upset anyone but I think you need to face a few simple truths Alex.

The Caimen Dac is by most reports a fine Dac but it’s a budget Dac Alex, much like the HRT 11, the MF V Dac, even with the mods.

I’ll grant that the cost of a particular component doesn’t necessarily reflect its performance. However, the more things a single box component attempts to do (SPDIF, USB, XLR, Headphone Amp, Filters, Switches, Displays, Finish etc etc, the less is spent on the primary function. All these extras cost money, lots compared to the basic components.

It may as a Dac perform far out of its class, but to put things into perspective, my headphone amp costs twice as much in kit form as the ready built complete Caiman.
Before people start kicking off, the headphone stage in the Caimen may be very good but I think even Stan would admit, it’s an extra; he built a Dac, not a headphone amp.

Next, while a headphone amp doesn’t have to provide large quantities of power, it does have to do what a pre amp (plus a bit) would have to do in a speaker amp setup.
How much is a decent pre amp these days?

It only gets worse; each dollar you spend doesn’t unfortunately give a linear improvement in performance, think more logarithmic from budget to high mid and then negligible after that.

You want apparently a top quality headphone listening experience so its either put your hand in your pocket and think about shelling out a couple of grand or lower your expectations.
Even at this price range you’ll have to accept that headphone listening isn’t really comparable to listening to your Maggies.

The exception to the above is when you make or mod componants, then your talking value and performance.

I hear ya. This clarifies a lot of thing for me. All this time, I was assuming (being an 'ass' in the 'assumption') that it's a given that Caiman is a solid headphones amp, and that all it takes now to get a decent phones experience is finding a matching set of cans.

Now I've learned that the source is more important than the sink (as is pretty much always the case). I agree -- you can't get away on the cheap, and Caiman is not a 'giant killer' when it comes to headphone amps (although I am convinced, after hearing some esoteric, multi-thousand dollars DACs, that Caiman is a 'giant killer', David vs Goliath, in the DAC arena). You can't be all things to all people, so the headphone amp in the Caiman is apparently a nice convenience, but no cigar.

I think this seals it for me, I'm going to move on now and spend my audio money on other things.

Thanks, I needed this!

[UV101]

It the risk of falling fowl again........:doh:

I know this guy, I like him and his products. He sorts me a good deal but I'm not affiliated with him. I've heard this product and its ace. I cannot compare to others but it sounded great when I heard it. Its reviewed in this months Hifi world mag

Fidelity Audio HPA-100/200 (http://www.fidelityaudio.co.uk/headphone_amps.shtml)

If you are looking for a decent headphones amp, its worth a listen for sure.

http://i1100.photobucket.com/albums/g412/restekboy/HPA100.jpg

[Complin]

Personally I would go for the entry level Stax system which includes headphones and dedicated amplifier. I would get down to your local Stax dealer and have a listen.
http://www.hifiheadphones.co.uk/stax-srs2170-basic-electrostatic-system-sr207srm252s-prodid-2508.html

In my experience the majority of combined DAC / Headphone amplifiers are compromised. To really make most of the best headphones sing you need a good heafty power supply, its just the same as speaker amps!

Avoid all the Chinese crap if you can as in my experience some of its unsafe, poorly made and not built to last. I still regularly use headphones made over 30 years ago.

[AmpCity]

Personally I would go for the entry level Stax system which includes headphones and dedicated amplifier. I would get down to your local Stax dealer and have a listen.
http://www.hifiheadphones.co.uk/stax-srs2170-basic-electrostatic-system-sr207srm252s-prodid-2508.html

In my experience the majority of combined DAC / Headphone amplifiers are compromised. To really make most of the best headphones sing you need a good hefty power supply, its just the same as speaker amps!

Avoid all the Chinese crap if you can as in my experience some of its unsafe, poorly made and not built to last. I still regularly use headphones made over 30 years ago.


The electrostatic Stax systems are definitely top notch, very quick indeed and the transients rendered beautifully... the majority like its sound signature...

I would have to respectfully disagree in terms of labelling all Chinese equipment as 'crap.' While that may have been true in the past (and in some current cases), where the Chinese manufacturers simply tried to clone Western models using inferior components and compromised design, that is in no way the situation at the moment; instead it is the Chinese brands that are leading the way in terms of circuit topology and price/performance.

Just take a look at the Audio Gd DAC/Amps - heft R-core transformers, pure class A, discrete FET output, quality branded caps, transistors etc., and all at a price that simply blows away the competition. Our first audition of their products was in a double blind test, comparing several units against the likes of Benchmark, Cambridge Audio, Lavry, and a few others, and the result was almost unequivocally in favour of the Chinese made amps - just take a look at the internals and tell me that it is not a well made product: http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/RE7/RE78.jpg

While the standard that the Audio Gd range is made to is not necessarily indicative of the design and build quality of other products manufactured in China, it definitely goes some way to dispel the stereotype, and there are many other Chinese brands that do the same. While Western products may well look aesthetically better and be better publicised, that does not in any way whatsoever allow one to conclude that they are a better product. Take a look at some internal pics of "high-end" DACs and you may be quite stunned indeed.

Right, that is my late night, slightly inebriated rambling over - time for bed :) .....

[magiccarpetride]

Personally I would go for the entry level Stax system which includes headphones and dedicated amplifier. I would get down to your local Stax dealer and have a listen.
http://www.hifiheadphones.co.uk/stax-srs2170-basic-electrostatic-system-sr207srm252s-prodid-2508.html

In my experience the majority of combined DAC / Headphone amplifiers are compromised. To really make most of the best headphones sing you need a good heafty power supply, its just the same as speaker amps!

Avoid all the Chinese crap if you can as in my experience some of its unsafe, poorly made and not built to last. I still regularly use headphones made over 30 years ago.

Yesterday I bought a pair of used AKG K141 Studio cans. Plugged them into Caiman, and wow! much, much better sounding than Grados!

These are old, well broken into, (still) made in Austria headphones, sporting super tacky gold finish. But nevermind, the sound is warm, comfortable, effortless, almost like slipping into a pair of comfy, well worn shoes.

Still, despite the fact that these sound so superior to Grados that it's not even funny, they still lack the sparkle and the shimmer and the life-like quality that I'm hearing from my speakers. So I have a question: if anyone here is familiar with these cans, do you think that upgrading the headphone amp could make AKG K141 come to life?

[Pete The Cat]

This won't help directly, but...

There's as much scope to improve with headphone amps as there is with main amps. A little while ago I began to explore DIY options on the basis that I figured they'd have better components for a lower price. Several are very highly rated over at Head-Fi, as are many ready-manufactured brands that seem unique to headphone amps eg Dark Voice or Little Dot. Anyway, I got a ready made White Noise Audio (no, I hadn't heard of them either) DIY amp second hand which not only knocked the socks off my Creek but which I've since found to be better than a Graham Slee Novo costing twice as much.

Headphone amps are an area where I'd definitely recommend trawling opinion on these lesser known brands and DIY options.

Pete

[Werner Berghofer]

I am convinced, after hearing some esoteric, multi-thousand dollars DACs, that Caiman is a 'giant killer', David vs Goliath, in the DAC arena

One does not need to go that far. Add approximately £ 80.– or 100.– to the Caiman’s price, and you’ll find a selection of much better sounding DACs. With every Beresford DAC I owned (TC-7520 and Caiman, all with the Gator upgrade) nearly every track on the very popular CD “Feels like home” from Norah Jones sounds distorted. In ➝ this thread (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=202777&postcount=98) Stanley Beresford claims “that some of the Norah Jones tracks are dodgy in their production”, but when I listen to the same tracks via another DAC, I have the impression that this not the production’s fault, and the music doesn’t sound dodgy at all …

The “giant killer” image of the Beresford DACs is a very popular myth here on this forum.

Werner.

[magiccarpetride]

This won't help directly, but...

There's as much scope to improve with headphone amps as there is with main amps. A little while ago I began to explore DIY options on the basis that I figured they'd have better components for a lower price. Several are very highly rated over at Head-Fi, as are many ready-manufactured brands that seem unique to headphone amps eg Dark Voice or Little Dot. Anyway, I got a ready made White Noise Audio (no, I hadn't heard of them either) DIY amp second hand which not only knocked the socks off my Creek but which I've since found to be better than a Graham Slee Novo costing twice as much.

Headphone amps are an area where I'd definitely recommend trawling opinion on these lesser known brands and DIY options.

Pete

Thanks for the tip. Pete. I don't doubt that it is possible to get a head-and-shoulders better headphone amp. My question is more like would it make sense to chase after a better standalone headphone amp in case I'm using lowly AKG K141 Studio cans? Are these cans good enough to warrant extra investment?

[Reid Malenfant]

Still, despite the fact that these sound so superior to Grados that it's not even funny, they still lack the sparkle and the shimmer and the life-like quality that I'm hearing from my speakers. So I have a question: if anyone here is familiar with these cans, do you think that upgrading the headphone amp could make AKG K141 come to life?
The Beresford DACs are good for the money, there is not a lot of doubt about that. In the standard Caiman the headphone output is an op-amp, not sure what the Gator board brings to the show, but I have a feeling the headphone output is still an op-amp.

A properly designed headphone amp that use discrete components rather than an op-amp that can only handle higher impedances will give you a much better result. I don't care what anyone says, including the designer!

Headphones work on such low power that it's worth getting a decent class A discrete amplifier to do the job if you are going to listen to headphones on a regular basis - simple as...

[magiccarpetride]

The “giant killer” image of the Beresford DACs is a very popular myth here on this forum.

Werner.

I agree. Let's agree to call it the "tiny killer".

Myth busted.

[wee tee cee]

For a budget set of cans that offer remarkable price /performance you could try the SUPERLUX brand. The 668b is highly regarded and can be improved comfort wise with the replacement of the pleather ear pads with AKG velvet ones. I recently purchased a pair of 660 and 440 models. Both surpass the ability of the 668b.The 660 accepts the AKG pads. My preference is the 660s, they outperform my sennheiser 650s on a number of levels....
The debate about the headphone amp being required ? Until you find a can within budget that you enjoy, stick with the caiman It is more than adequate.
Regards Tony.

[morris_minor]

Headphones work on such low power that it's worth getting a decent class A discrete amplifier to do the job if you are going to listen to headphones on a regular basis - simple as...

I have to agree with this. Though some headphones demand proper amplification, most will benefit. In my systems I use a Sugden Headmaster and a Graham Slee Solo SRGIII with my HD650s, and both give a better depth of presentation and an increase in dynamic attack. Though to be fair the 650s do demand this, but the effect was very apparent on the 595s I had, which worked "ok" in component headphone outlets.

But no matter what you plug 'em in to, headphones simply have to be comfy or else they're a waste of money IMO.

[AlfaGTV]

Some headphone amps i use on a regular basis:
Zero DAC 09 Version Yes, it's also a DAC/Preamp. Great value, around £100. Sounds a little warm and with powerful lower registers with std. OPA-627. Recently exchanged the OP for LME49990, and now it's barely possible to hear audio diffeence between it and the (when used as DAC):
Benchmark DAC-1 This is also a DAC/Pre/head phone amp. The headphone part though is a little tame compared to the previous.
Little Dot MkIII Tube based headphone amp, great sounding with much intimacy and huge possibilities to tailor the sound to fit your prefs. Using Mullard 8161 with great pleasure!
Finally the kick ass solution which absolutely massacres all other options:
DIY Lehmann Audio Black Cube Linear clone with 60VA power supply. Total cost around £40 !!!!!
You can find this in kit form on flea bay... I built mine into an old casette deck!
http://www.ollars.net/hififorum/LBCLC_S1.JPG
http://www.ollars.net/hififorum/LBCLC_S2.JPG


The headphones in daily use are:
Sennheiser HD-650, nice but a little tame in upper registers... Good sound stage though.
Denon AH-D2000, a little brittle at some times but generally very sturdy and enjoyable. Great bass, tight and physical!
Denon AH-D7000, best of all dynamic head phones imo. Fabulous bass, extremely deep and a midrange which is so clear and natural that you most likely will be disappointed by your maggies on next listen ;) oh, the upper registers have no flaws imo either, crystl clear but never intrusive!
When travelling i use a pair of Sony MDR EX90 in ears and i also have some older Sonys which are more like ear buds.

Options are a'plenty!

Br Mike

[morris_minor]

Denon AH-D7000, best of all dynamic head phones imo. Fabulous bass, extremely deep and a midrange which is so clear and natural that you most likely will be disappointed by your maggies on next listen ;) oh, the upper registers have no flaws imo either, crystl clear but never intrusive!

Br Mike

Hi Mike - I've just ordered a pair of AH-D7000s to partner my 650s. It sounds as though I'll like them :D.

[AlfaGTV]

I think you'll enjoy the 7K's immensely! And even though the 650 is not my first choice, they can be almost magic on some recordings! So, i would not want to be without either of them.

Br Mike

[Werner Berghofer]

Tony,


Until you find a can within budget that you enjoy, stick with the caiman It is more than adequate.

this is a good suggestion, but according to my own experience as a former (and happy) Beresford customer I have to say that any headphone’s true capabilities only can be evaluated when they are properly powered by a high quality, true stand-alone headphone amplifier.

Werner.

[morris_minor]

I think you'll enjoy the 7K's immensely! And even though the 650 is not my first choice, they can be almost magic on some recordings! So, i would not want to be without either of them.

Br Mike

I'm getting quite excited at the prospect of hearing the 7000s with my setup! I do like the 650s a lot, but sometimes I think they can be a little too polite :lol:.
I hoping that with this pairing I'll have all (or most) bases covered . . .

[wee tee cee]

If memory serves the 7k is standacs favourite set of cans. It would be interesting to hear how they compare to the 650s.

[morris_minor]

If memory serves the 7k is standacs favourite set of cans. It would be interesting to hear how they compare to the 650s.

Once they're run it I'll post some comments . . .:)

[magiccarpetride]

Denon AH-D7000, best of all dynamic head phones imo. Fabulous bass, extremely deep and a midrange which is so clear and natural that you most likely will be disappointed by your maggies on next listen ;) oh, the upper registers have no flaws imo either, crystl clear but never intrusive!

Well, right now with AKG I'm getting only 10% - 15% of the sound that I'm hearing out of my speakers. If Denon AH-D7000 can give me more than 100% of what I'm hearing from Maggies, I will be literally blown away.

[AlfaGTV]

Please note the smilie magiccarpetride! ;)

But, imo no speaker/room combo can ever compete with a good pair of headphones with a nice amp. Not even magneplanars or electrostatics... :eyebrows:
Of course i am not referring to the soundstage part though, where good speakers always have the upper hand!

Best regards
Mike

[Werner Berghofer]

I'm getting only 10% - 15% of the sound that I'm hearing out of my speakers

I wonder how one would be able to measure or express sound quality in percent? Or are you talking about sound pressure level?


If Denon AH-D7000 can give me more than 100% of what I'm hearing from Maggies

Assuming your Maggies are excellent, perfect sound transducers then everything you hear from them would be identical to what is recorded on the source used for playback. Thinking in percents the source equals 100 percent. How any given headphone should be able to reproduce more than what is recorded on the original source is beyond my imagination.

This already has been mentioned several times: As long as you operate a headphone from the Caiman’s headphone jack, you will never be able to judge the headphone’s true capabilities.

Werner.

[magiccarpetride]

I wonder how one would be able to measure or express sound quality in percent? Or are you talking about sound pressure level?

Sorry, my bad, I was using quantitative information in the attempt to qualify qualitative impressions. It's like saying "this home made beer is barely giving me 30% of the satisfaction I get from that high end imported beer". We're not talking quantities of beer, nor any other quantifiable parameters that could be measured in a glass of beer, but merely one's personal, subjective impressions. But these could also be expressed in terms of percentages, or ratios (like, sex after a few beers feels twice as good as sex after a few shots of tequila).


Assuming your Maggies are excellent, perfect sound transducers then everything you hear from them would be identical to what is recorded on the source used for playback. Thinking in percents the source equals 100 percent. How any given headphone should be able to reproduce more than what is recorded on the original source is beyond my imagination.

It's also beyond my imagination.

I hear there is an imagination boot camp; perhaps it's time for us to enrol for this season?


This already has been mentioned several times: As long as you operate a headphone from the Caiman’s headphone jack, you will never be able to judge the headphone’s true capabilities.

Werner.

I have no doubts about that.

[goraman]

I think comparing any of Grado Labs headphones to an electrostatic panel is like comparing a kiss from a super model to a kiss from your great grandmother "even if grandma slips you some tongue" it's just not the same.
I have owned more than a pair of Grado's headphones and can say there Prestige line simply do not sound stage. And the lowly SR80 is better balanced than the 325i but still lacks the refinement of the RS1 that dose sound stage a little. The SR225 is a very nice choice in the Grado line but can't beat The old 1968 Superex pro B for tone and sound stage. The superex sound like Mullard tubes,rich,smooth,with a big mid range and deep bass but slightly warm or rolled off so you can listen to them for hours on end.
The Grados SR 325i is treble busy and bright as an atomic flash. Violins sound like a swarm of stinging killer bees in my ears.One or two songs and I'm ready for electro shock therapy and a bottle O rum. Headphones can sound wonderful but you must audition them with a dedicated headphone amp of reasonable quality to know if they will do it for you.I would look at Ultrasone in a closed back like the Edition 8 if you want a real headphone experience a Little Dot III tube headphone amp is a nice bargain amp that sounds fantastic with the right tubes so you can save money there. http://www.littledot.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=815

[goraman]

Here's a nice pair at a decent cost.


http://www.ultrasone.com/index.php/en/products/hfi-680.html