View Full Version : Next Lenco Project
The GL78 I re-built (or had it done by an expert!) has now gone to pastures new in the USA (65 watchers on e-bay, wow!).
Wasn't originally planning to sell it until I came across the AOS and was SL1210'd immediately! I though to myself anyone prepared to spend £3k up-grading a vinyl spinner must think it's a damn fine piece of gear so I got one. Now they are dis-continued I shall acquire the other one I know is going spare and that will be good for my life time.
Anyway now I have 4 more Lencos in the garage, 1 is going to a great guy off the CU forum who I promised I would sell it as it is for him to do up himself, that leaves 3 more so I am going to pick the best of the remaining 3 for my next job. I could go on Lenco Heaven but don't feel at home there, people say the Linn Arm I fitted to the GL78 is a bit mediocre, question is what goes well with the Lencos arm wise, I will be getting Russ to make me a solid plinth this time instead of the hollow one I used last time so that's not an issue, I will stick with the gold plated IEC inlet I fitted on the back and I am going to fit an Oyaide tone-arm lead this time.
Arm and cartridge suggestions welcomed, I suppose the arm does not need to be housed in the Lenco unit itself as I have seen them mounted directly onto the wooden plinth.
I have enough room on my custom made equipment rack for 3 vinyl spinners now and plenty of inputs on my amp to have a few TT's back in the brook residence.
It depends on what you want to do and how you wish to take this (Dave not going to like me for saying this) Depending on your arm budget you could go for anything like a Terminator to a Graham Phamtom The Terminator you can get made up for the Lenco and if you add a Decca wowwwwww it would sound pretty awesome, so no need to alter that body. somewhere on the lenco heaven site they have an arm measurement data i Think via a link so easy to compare sizes and see issues around fitting. Like everything it comes down on how much you willing to spend
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/maddogmcq/myart/lencoheaven/tonearms.htm
Lenco's own arm is fine and better than an LVX or Basik Plus. But it can't can it, 'cos it's heavy (desirable these days), needs V block work (harder blocks are now available), the counterweight decoupling can be tamed or removed to taste and any 1.75 gramme tracker can be fitted. The main thing to do is the exit cable to amp, which is desperate, the internal wires less so, although Audio origami should be able to sort it.
Of course, "we've" all been conditioned since the 70's that the Lenco tonearms are pants. Well, I've been there, done it and lived to tell the tale. Keep the original arm intact, clean it up and service accordingly, including the auto trip, which is gentle enough.
Hang on a mo, I've said all this before........
P.S. I really don't think the lenco's are quiet enough for real top end arms and cartridges any more than 301's are in the absolute sense of it all. Compared to a techie, these idler drives are noisy (irrespective of the plinth) and in comparison, this is audible..... IMO..... :)
I think you never truly get rid of the motor issues but the Lenco will outperform a lot of costly TT with the right set up and in my view is worth putting a decent arm on we just have to disagree as usual on this
I dont get noise and I hope those who mention noise are thinking of the original Lenco sound box..
Use car body sound deadening sheets on the platter and the inside lip..edge.
The top end is the tops:)
.
Just to say Will Lenco sounds very good indeed
You could always arrange the plinths for two arms - a 12" inch one to run a SPU and the standard arm for best... :D
Seriously, it's a shame they're getting so expensive now, but fitted with a better "DJ" style cartridge, I doubt you'd get more fun for anywhere near that kind of money. As it is, a re-wired and V-Blocked GL75 with springy plinth, K9 and standard mat absolutely annihilated a Linn Axis/Akito/K9 we compared it with - the differences weren't at all subtle and the Lenco's owner was delighted :)
Ammonite Audio
02-01-2011, 11:05
You could always arrange the plinths for two arms - a 12" inch one to run a SPU and the standard arm for best... :D
Seriously, it's a shame they're getting so expensive now, but fitted with a better "DJ" style cartridge, I doubt you'd get more fun for anywhere near that kind of money. As it is, a re-wired and V-Blocked GL75 with springy plinth, K9 and standard mat absolutely annihilated a Linn Axis/Akito/K9 we compared it with - the differences weren't at all subtle and the Lenco's owner was delighted :)
Would you tell me just how many decent (and currently available) cartridges will run in an arm as massy as the Lenco's? I certainly don't have any; even the Jelco SA-750D has too much mass for my Benz Glider SL which otherwise has modest needs. This is all a matter of taste, of course. My as yet uncompleted Lenco project will have to make do with a selection of what I term decent arms, from my collection of Linn Ittok LVII, Jelco SA-750D to Audio Note. I sold the ragged assembly of Lenco scaffolding poles masquerading as a tonearm long ago when I bought my GL75 and must have no regrets - I know that the Ittok would humiliate it, according to my own musical tastes and preferences (not to mention handling and useability). I have no doubt that the Lenco arm would be "fun" but I am after a rounded musical experience.
Your comments about the Linn Axis have piqued my interest - I must get one.
TopBalcony
08-01-2011, 18:40
"Wasn't originally planning to sell it until I came across the AOS and was SL1210'd immediately!"
David, I've been there and tried both, with various arms (including Ittok, Nima and Terminator). The Lenco plays in a far higher league, so if you have any Lencos left to sell, please send me a pm !
I have decided to make my next Lenco which is a a GL75 into a super deck. So does anyone have 1 already that they can advise on best arm and cart. Lenco heaven is too mind boggling for me, would prefer to stay here cos I like it!
I have a GL69 which is the hollow platter one for sale.
The Terminator Pro would be a great arm with the Tomahawk wand Vic of Trans Fi can get it to fit in the existing cut out I would then put a Decca London Cart on it something like a Jubilee What I am advising is not cheap but you did say super deck
I would also think about using 30mm Slate plinth
I am sure others my advise different but I heard this and it will perform at a very high level indeed
The other one to try out is something like Will got, he made his own arm on a two tier slate lenco
Hi mate,
"Wasn't originally planning to sell it until I came across the AOS and was SL1210'd immediately!"
David, I've been there and tried both, with various arms (including Ittok, Nima and Terminator). The Lenco plays in a far higher league, so if you have any Lencos left to sell, please send me a pm !
First of all, what's your first name? We like to use first name terms on AoS :)
Secondly, whilst I love Lencos and agree that they can be superb, I think your statement above is somewhat misleading unless you've heard a fully-tricked out SL-1210 with a Mike New platter, bearing and a Paul Hynes SR5 PSU (together with one fitted with a decent tonearm), which in my experience raises the performance of the Techie to far in excess of that of any Lenco I've heard - albeit at some cost.
Perhaps you meant an SL-1210 fitted merely with a new arm and nothing else vs. the Lenco? :cool:
Marco.
Just to say i heard Marco 1210 and a good few Lencos I think when I heard the 1210 it was on similar playing field to Will Lenco (its so hard to tell because in such different contexts) but the 1210 has since got the heavy duty platter and better power supply but I not yet heard (nor likely to hear) Jean reference Lenco which might take things even further
http://www.idler-wheel-drive.com/
In my view their both good paths with the 1210 edging it when correctly modified
TopBalcony
09-01-2011, 09:02
Hi Marco, its John...have introduced myself previously but rarely get the opportunity to post.
I had the 1210 in my system for a few months last year, upgraded only with the Timestep PSU and arms as described. I think its a great deck, but found that over time I simply wasn't listening to as many records.
I went back to my Lenco (a GL75 on a slatedeck plinth) and found what I had been missing - in my system,IMHO etc, - a better soundstage, more dynamics, and a more "musical" delivery. This has persuaded me not to pursue further upgrades to the 1210 as I don't think they would change the fundamental character of the deck which I find less enjoyable than the idler.
Its worth mentioning that there are also bearing upgrades for the Lenco. These are said to considerably improve over the stock bearing and I hope to get one of these this year (demand currently exceeds supply).
I wasn't intending to disparage the 1210 in any way, but just point out that there are others, like me, who prefer a different path.
I think both decks are great and good to get an idea of the performance level of the 1210 compaired to the Lenco in your system I think both decks are great and I love to hear what a fully tricked Lenco would sound like
Are you still using the Teminator on the Lenco and if so have you updated the wand its worth the effort
TopBalcony
09-01-2011, 09:13
Hi John, yes still using the Terminator. Hoping to upgrade to the Pro soon and also try a Decca - I think Vic uses one and they seem to be a good match.
Btw, I have recently got Hawthornes (the 10" SI plus Augies) and am enjoying these immensely - need to get the baffles sorted now though. They are currently roughly mounted to some Ikea shelves!
The pro is a nice step up in performance and heard and with the Decca sounds amazing. Really makes music sound alive.
Great to know someone else has these wonderful Hawthorne speakers, Darrel is a great guy really knows his stuff and stunning value
The baffles really make a difference to the sound. It be good to isolate the drivers as much as you can from the baffles and I found using 40mm thick MDF really improved the sound too. The other thing I advise is to open up the tweeter and get rid of that metal screen, its not needed and only adds a certain hardness to the sound Then the other thing is to give them plenty of time to bed in It took my drivers a good 4 months to really sound good and even after a year I still heard slight improvements
TopBalcony
09-01-2011, 09:53
John, many thanks for your advice. Its great to know that they will be getting even better. I have been driving the family mad playing burn in tones on repeat most nights!
Sorry to go even deeper off topic, but do you have the upgraded tweeters (if so, what are your impressions)? These are on my wish list, along with another set of Augies maybe (need to give the existing set up time to bed in before deciding on this).
I hope to hear the Trio with the sterling 15" drivers in a few months time. Everyone who gone for the Trio has really liked what the extra bass driver adds to the music. My room size would not really allow for the Trio.
The performance from Silver Iris is pretty good once fully bedded in.
Personally I think just best to bed in with music. The Augies need to be driven a bit to bed in
Hi John,
Hi Marco, its John...have introduced myself previously but rarely get the opportunity to post.
No worries, mate - glad you've added your name to your profile :)
I had the 1210 in my system for a few months last year, upgraded only with the Timestep PSU and arms as described. I think its a great deck, but found that over time I simply wasn't listening to as many records.
I know where you're coming from. Achieving synergy with an SL-1210 in terms of arm and cartridge choice, in order that the deck sounds musical to listen to, can sometimes be tricky.
I have no experience of using any of the arms you tried on an SL-1210, but could probably give a good case for why they might not work.
The best tonearms to use on a Techie in my experience are Jelcos and SMEs (although I think an Audio Origami modified RB250 could also work well, as of course does Martin's Dynavector). It's simply a matter combining the sonic signatures of the partnering ancillaries (mat, feet, PSU, arm and cartridge) in order that no one signature dominates.
What cartridge(s) mat and feet did you use on yours? Also, did you remove the old PSU from underneath the platter when you fitted the Timestep? That big lump of metal there is one of the reasons why stock 1210s sound rather 'grey' and somewhat shut-in at the top-end.
I went back to my Lenco (a GL75 on a slatedeck plinth) and found what I had been missing - in my system,IMHO etc, - a better soundstage, more dynamics, and a more "musical" delivery. This has persuaded me not to pursue further upgrades to the 1210 as I don't think they would change the fundamental character of the deck which I find less enjoyable than the idler.
I'd agree. All a better bearing, platter and PSU will do is allow one to hear more of what the drive system sounds like.
Therefore, if you didn't like the basic sonic characteristics of the 1210 with a new tonearm and Timestep PSU fitted, I doubt that you'd really change your mind after the further mods as described have been carried out, although soundstaging and dynamics would definitely improve after the fitting of an MN bearing and SR5 PSU.
The bottom line is that idler T/Ts sound quite different from direct-drives. I like both and indeed prefer them massively to belt-drives. However with a 1210, one can go some way to achieving the 'musicality' you like in the Lenco with a suitable choice of arm and cartridge.
One of the reasons why SPUs, for example, work so well with direct-drive T/Ts is that they add a little warmth and colour to balance out the slight sterility of D/D T/Ts, as indeed do classic S-shaped tonearms, such as the Jelco.
That 'recipe' just seems to be right, and it really does make for the most beguiling musical presentation when combined with the grippy and hugely dynamic nature of the 1210 when fitted with an MN bearing, platter and SR5 PSU.
Its worth mentioning that there are also bearing upgrades for the Lenco. These are said to considerably improve over the stock bearing and I hope to get one of these this year (demand currently exceeds supply).
It would be most interesting to hear one, thus modified.
I wasn't intending to disparage the 1210 in any way, but just point out that there are others, like me, who prefer a different path.
Indeed. I think it was just the rather abrupt and absolutist statement of "The Lenco plays in a far higher league", without looking into all the variables properly, that came across badly! ;)
Like you say, different strokes for different folks :cool:
Marco.
TopBalcony
09-01-2011, 11:58
Marco, thanks for your interesting comments.
My favourite combination on the Techie was a Nima tonearm with a DL103 (used into an A23 step up). I think the unipivot went a long way to addressing the shortcomings I perceived in the deck.
Hi John,
No worries. Unipivots can work very well with the DL-103, providing there is sufficient added mass on the headshell. Similarly, I've heard good results with a 103R on a Hadcock.
What other cartridges did you try with your 1210 and did you remove the old PSU from underneath the platter when you fitted the Timestep? :)
Marco.
TopBalcony
09-01-2011, 12:23
Hi Marco, yes - I did remove the old PSU.
Other cartridges tried were the AT0C9 and AT33PTG.
I found the Cartridge Man Isolator worked really well between the Denon and Nima (although not with other arms I tried it with) - may well have been something to do with the added mass as you say.
John
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