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View Full Version : Telly's... which one ??



SteveW
28-12-2010, 20:14
Bugger..
Quick. Major leap into finding out the best 32 inch or 37 inch telly you can get right now.
Basically Fiona has given me the green light for new telly in the sitting room. The one now sits in a big old bit of Mexican furniture...which was all well and good when you needed something 3 or 4 feet deep...but now you don't. So looks like the cabinet is going.

But we have a 40 inch in the basement which is brilliant (a Sony)

So Panasonic/Sony/Samsung/Toshiba..

oh, and LED, LCD or Plasma? I Guess not plasma, as they seem to be the big buggers.

Techno Commander
28-12-2010, 20:48
If I was spending, it would be a Panasonic Viera. :)

chris@panteg
28-12-2010, 20:54
If i were getting a new TV, i would be looking at the LED models available , Panasonic oh yes , but the Samsung and LG look pretty too but LED over LCD deffo :)

DSJR
28-12-2010, 21:16
I still think Plasma gives the most satisfactory picture, that is, if you don't wish for an over-contrasted "HiFi" picture.

I understand that Panasonic took over the excellent Pioneer research and have built it into their better screens. Sony have never usually done a duffer either, so I'd personally put both these makers in the spotlight.

Mr Pig
28-12-2010, 22:01
Guy at work has a plasma and he worked out that it costs him five pounds a week in electricity!

A week!...

Ali Tait
28-12-2010, 23:35
Second the Viera.

DSJR
28-12-2010, 23:39
guy at work has a plasma and he worked out that it costs him five pounds a week in electricity!

A week!...

owwwwwwww!!!!! :(

Alex_UK
28-12-2010, 23:44
I have a (now old) 42" Panasonic Viera and it is still a great display. Sky HD or Blu-Ray is just stunning, in a lifelike kind of way. That said, some amazing deals on Bravias at the moment - under three hundred quid for a 32" flat screen TV - mental! :eek:

The Vinyl Adventure
29-12-2010, 01:35
LED doesn't make much odd if you ask me ...
The Sony ex503's arnt led backlit edge or other wise but are as good in my books...
The problem is with LCD is it's to bright, to contrasty and to over processed!
Try watching a 90's film (for eg) on a Bravia 3 Sony ... It's crazy... The over process kicks in o the point of distraction ... You can't make 90's films look like they were made yesterday so why try ... The best TVs are TVs the produce a natural picture ... Ie plasma They now use a lot less electricity than they used to (£5 a week is the sort that Andy peters burnt his stupid face on live tv on)
Even the latest panny g20 plasma need setting up right to avoid the over processed look ... My fave (excluding the kuro's) was the panny g10 ... Shortly followed by the px80 that I have ... The px80 just suffers with a touch of juttering on panning images - way less than the lcds of it's day mind ... The g10 removed that issue with it's 600hz system, but didn't go over board on the processing like the g20 can on some images where it can cause wierd artifacts around the edges of fast moving objects ...

Of course this is all academic really as I haven't seen the panny x20 plasma which is the only one that's 37" ... The "neopdp" panels start at 42"...
So yeah... Based on my experiences of 32-37" TVs I'd buy the Sony kdl-32ex503 or kdl-37ex503 ... Just bare in mind if you ever decide to watch films from the 90's on broadcast tv specifically 'volcano' which you are bound to see eventually as it's on one or another freebies channel every 3 1/2 fucking days it will look shite ... Most other stuff will look excellent though
Also, if you go into a shop, don't let them dick you into buying a ex713 ... The led edge backlight makes no real odds (get them to put the 2 TVs next to each other and see for your self) and the rest of the features are superfluous ... Unless you are particular about how thick it is (even the 713 isn't that thin - you have to go NX series for really thin) or you want a feature that detects when you have left the room and dims the tv to save electricity ... If
Your that bothered about electricity and the environment though you need o be thinking about selling your house and car and living in a mud hut and only eating dandelions ...

Rare Bird
29-12-2010, 01:42
I bought probably first Samsung LCD TV, it's been a great telly & still working perfect, i'm not a telly fan & maybe watch 1 milliseconds of it a week :lolsign:

The wife wants a new one, not for change sake but that it's knocking on a bit & rather swap before it breaks down, i went looking for the latest Sammy model but hated the design of it, so it's kindda waiting till the next model appears see if thats appealing, i find the Samsungs great tellies though. Thing is i've looked at a lot of brands & find this early LCD we have more natural picture compared to the newer bright looking picture.But it's Sammy or nowt

The Vinyl Adventure
29-12-2010, 01:43
Guy at work has a plasma and he worked out that it costs him five pounds a week in electricity!

A week!...

I bet he saves money on his heating bill though... Those old plasmas run hot hot hot!! (see previous post about Andy Peters and his stupid face) :)

The Vinyl Adventure
29-12-2010, 01:48
I bought probably first Samsung LCD TV, it's been a great telly & still working perfect, i'm not a telly fan & maybe watch 1 milliseconds of it a week :lolsign:

The wife wants a new one, not for change sake but that it's knocking on a bit & rather swap before it breaks down, i went looking for the latest Sammy model but hated the design of it, so it's kindda waiting till the next model appears see if thats appealing, i find the Samsungs great tellies though. Thing is i've looked at a lot of brands & find this early LCD we have more natural picture compared to the newer bright looking picture.But it's Sammy or nowt

The problem is andre, most shops don't have the first clue how to set up a tv properly ... And a lot of TVs have a "shop" mode that makes them mega bright ... Ask them to borrow the remote and mess with the picture a bit ... If they want to sell you a tv enough, they will let you ...

Mr Pig
29-12-2010, 09:53
How do you burn your face on a TV!? :0.

I was very surprised to learn how much electricity these TVs use. Even LCD ones use more than CRT! I mean they're always bleating on about saving the polar bear yet constantly talk us into evermore technology that uses more electricity than the stuff we already have!

Things that didn't need mains electricity before, do now. We've even got a picture frame that plugs in! Poor polar bear's screwed I'm afraid.

The Grand Wazoo
29-12-2010, 09:58
I've been moaning for ages about this - apparently we now need the help of electricity to turn on a tap. The other week, I was in the quite new offices of a contractor I deal with & there was a power cut while I was in the cludger. Not a big problem, except that the bog wouldn't flush, I couldn't wash my hands, & even if I could, I wouldn't have been able to dry them. The one thing that did work was the soap dispenser, but I didn't find out about the taps till after I'd got my hands covered in liberal quantities of gooey pink slime.

Mr Pig
29-12-2010, 10:13
I've been moaning for ages about this - apparently we now need the help of electricity to turn on a tap.

It's staggering. And what is the point? It's all just a load of wank!

If the government were serious about reducing electricity consumption should they not put a tax on electric taps?

The Vinyl Adventure
29-12-2010, 10:24
How do you burn your face on a TV!? :0.

He kissed the screen not realising how hot they were ... It was live tv too ...

The Grand Wazoo
29-12-2010, 10:28
It's staggering. And what is the point? It's all just a load of wank!

If the government were serious about reducing electricity consumption should they not put a tax on electric taps?

That's the tip of the iceberg - they want us all to drive electric cars because they're supposed to be greener. We have barely enough electrical energy as it is, & by the way, how green is a coal powered car?

Mr Pig
29-12-2010, 12:15
they want us all to drive electric cars because they're supposed to be greener.

I know, it's really thick. All they're doing is moving the dirt from one place to another. And you never hear them talk about the resources and pollution involved in the manufacture and disposal of electric cars. By far the most ecologically friendly thing you could do is keep your old car and run it for longer, but that's bad for the economy as it's built on perpetual, unsustainable consumption.

So buy a new electric car every three years and pat yourself on the back whilst you watch the polar bears drown on your flat-screen TV! ;0)

Spectral Morn
29-12-2010, 12:38
Don't buy any make of LED TV

(1) Its stop gap tech they will be gone fairly soon

(2) They only look good on HiGH Def pictures not standard def. So suitable for watching HD movies on, nothing else.

Plasma will give the best movement, black levels and contrast. However only the Panasonic ones are worth buying....anything else NO....don't do it.

LCD Oh dear oh dear :doh::( only the most expensive imho give a decent picture and even then the movement artefacts (even on HD sources) are jerky and lacking the fluidity of a good plasma or a CRT TV. Standard def material looks poor on LCD TVs even the dear ones. Panasonic, Loewe and Sony make pretty good LCD TVs (best of a bad bunch) but frankly I have yet to see any LCD I could live with.

If you could get one of the G8 model Pioneers from two years ago those were very good, best plasmas I had ever seen but screen burn is a major issue with plasma technology.

Why we need TV ident logos is beyond me :doh::( I know the reasons given by the TV channels but it is a crock.....Are we so stupid that we don't know what channel we are watching..... Why do the logos have to be there all the time ? so big and so bright....

I will be sticking with my nice big Panasonic 37in CRT TV.

Charity shops are a nice place to get CRT TVs cheap now and in the last few months I have spotted a number of excellent Sony 28 and 32 inch FX65 and FQ75 sets (5 - 7 years ago the very best Sony had on their books) These were £1700 in the charity shops £50 to £100 :) Best picture you could get at the time bar the top Loewe models....I would still love a nice 32 inch Top of the range one of those :cool:


Oh yes don't get me started about the environmental bollocks of Plasma and LCD/LED/LEO. CRT TV is still best in this regard....


Regards D S D L

Rare Bird
29-12-2010, 13:01
Only prob i've got with our Telly is if it's a shyte reception it will let you know it is..On DVD tho it is superb & thank goodness thats all i watch..My UFO 's DVD's picture quality is nothing short of Awesome on HDMI..Makes Wanda Ventham even more larvley than she already is :eyebrows:

SteveW
29-12-2010, 13:38
cheers chaps
given me food for thought.
They have all dropped away in price since we bought the last one 3 years ago !

shane
29-12-2010, 16:23
Two days ago I bought a Sony kdl32ex403 from Richer Sounds for £299, mainly because I was fed up with not seeing what's going on at the edges on my old 21" CRT, and I have to say I'm knocked over at how good it is. I've been very disappointed at most of the LCD TVs I've seen, particularly the "painting by numbers" contouring effects they mostly get, but there's none of that on here. The picture on HD is brilliant, but on normal TV it's really good as well. I always assumed that I would be irritated by watching normal standard TV on an HD set, but not so.

The thing that's really surprised me though is how versatile it is. I wasn't sure what I would want a wifi connected telly for, especially since Sony want £60 for a comapatable wifi dongle, but then I found it has an ethernet connection. Plugged into my Squeezebox, which can act as a wireless bridge connection to my router, I now get BBC I-player at near-broadcast quality, plus 4 OD, and a load of other stuff I haven't begun to explore yet. TYou can also use it as a PC monitor, or plug a USB stick in to watch photos or movies. Add to that a built in freeview HD tuner and I can honestly say that this is the first time I've ever bought a piece of consumer electronics and been genuinely surprised and delighted by how far it exceeded my (admittedly low) expectations.

Oh yes, Richer Sounds also added a 5-year warranty for £30. I have no idea how reliable these things are...

Details here: http://www.richersounds.com/product/lcd-tv/sony/bravia-kdl32ex403/sony-kdl32ex403

Review here: http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/sony-kdl32ex403-kdl32ex403u-20100418346.htm

Jac Hawk
29-12-2010, 16:44
Well i've got a 42' philips ambilight, and i must say it's great, i use it as a tv and a monitor for my pc, the picture's great and the lights around the screen really do add to the enjoyment, after a while you don't notice that they're there it only when you go to a friends or watch a different tv that you feel something is missing. And yes crt is still the best picture on everything but HD, however lcd / led is a lot smaller an easier to site AND it can handle HD so Dr Who will never look the same again:cool:

Reid Malenfant
29-12-2010, 18:58
Well i've got a 42' philips ambilight, and i must say it's great, i use it as a tv and a monitor for my pc, the picture's great and the lights around the screen really do add to the enjoyment
I agree to a point on the Ambilight ;) What you may not notice is how it distorts the colours on the screen (as seen by you) when you are watching it :doh:

My 56" has the spectra 3 version, what i have done is permanently set the colour to as close to 6500K as possible (look up about D65 backlighting) & this really does improve things :)

Mr Pig
29-12-2010, 19:43
I have spotted a number of excellent Sony 28 and 32 inch FX65 and FQ75 sets (5 - 7 years ago the very best Sony had on their books)

Sony CRT TVs just go on forever. Our TV is a Trinitron, there is another in the kitchen and up until a few years ago we had one in our bedroom too. I felt really guilty about binning the one from our bedroom as it was over twenty years old and the picture was still perfect. It was just too big for the room.

I just don't see the point in changing them. I've looked at LCD TVs in the shops and frankly they're not as good as the Sony CRT. I also question the reliability of them. I know quite a few people who've had expensive LCD TVs pack in, just out of warranty, and the repair has either been very expensive or not economic at all.

For what? Just so that your TV is thinner!

Reid Malenfant
29-12-2010, 19:58
If i was forced to own a CRT TV then there are only 2 models i'd be interested in & both are made by Panasonic ;)

TX32-PD50 & TX36-PD50 :) No others would even get a look in as far as i'm concerned. Been there with a few Trinitrons & yes the picture is great, not so sure about the reliability though having had one go faulty on more than one occasion :rolleyes:

Alex_UK
29-12-2010, 20:05
For what? Just so that your TV is thinner!

Well for me, so it was bigger - only went Panny Plasma for a bigger screen size, which is CRT's limitation.

Spectral Morn
29-12-2010, 20:26
If i was forced to own a CRT TV then there are only 2 models i'd be interested in & both are made by Panasonic ;)

TX32-PD50 & TX36-PD50 :) No others would even get a look in as far as i'm concerned. Been there with a few Trinitrons & yes the picture is great, not so sure about the reliability though having had one go faulty on more than one occasion :rolleyes:


Great TV (the one I own)... good sound, great picture and feed it a good signal from your aerial and double wow :) It also reproduces white really well too.

I had a Sony 32 Fq75. Very nice on Sky and DVD not as good on TV aerial signals. White could be an issue also. The sound was also a tad poor.

Regards D S D L

Reid Malenfant
29-12-2010, 20:35
Great TV (the one I own)... good sound, great picture and feed it a good signal from your aerial and double wow :)
Wise choice ;) When they first came out i'd have given & arm & a leg to get hold of one :eyebrows: The things are damn near full HD anyway & generate more lines than a 720P LCD screen (800+ if i remember right :scratch:) as well as inbuilt progressive scanning...

It's the kiddy :cool:

Marco
29-12-2010, 20:35
I just don't see the point in changing them. I've looked at LCD TVs in the shops and frankly they're not as good as the Sony CRT. I also question the reliability of them. I know quite a few people who've had expensive LCD TVs pack in, just out of warranty, and the repair has either been very expensive or not economic at all.

For what? Just so that your TV is thinner!

;)

Marco.

Mr Pig
29-12-2010, 20:42
Well for me, so it was bigger - only went Panny Plasma for a bigger screen size

We can pull out the projector! ;0) Picture is huge and sounds not bad through the Isobariks.

We've had nothing but Trinitrons for the past twenty years and not had one go wrong yet. Well nothing big, only a few of the tiny buttons on the really old one. Easy fix.

Spectral Morn
29-12-2010, 20:47
Wise choice ;) When they first came out i'd have given & arm & a leg to get hold of one :eyebrows: The things are damn near full HD anyway & generate more lines than a 720P LCD screen (800+ if i remember right :scratch:) as well as inbuilt progressive scanning...

It's the kiddy :cool:


I got mine from the local Panasonic distributor he had a few left he could not sell....mine cost about £700 including the VAT..... They were £2500 new if I remember right. That was just over three years ago.

It was also physically the same size as the Sony Fq75 it replaced :)


Regards D S D L

Jac Hawk
29-12-2010, 21:01
I think reliability in LCD's etc is a lot better now than when they 1st came out, but i would also say that if you don't need to get a new telly, then don't bother upgrading just yet, as 3D tv is just around the corner, and i have a feeling that 3D tv's will do to LCD and LED what the afore mentioned did to crt i.e. bring the price right down.

Mr Pig
29-12-2010, 21:11
LCD TVs are already reasonably priced, I just don't want one.

And 3D TV, how pointless is that? A daft gimmick that messes with your eyes. I'll not be getting one of those either.

Spectral Morn
29-12-2010, 21:19
And 3D TV, how pointless is that? A daft gimmick that messes with your eyes. I'll not be getting one of those either.


+1


Regards D S D L

Reid Malenfant
29-12-2010, 21:27
And 3D TV, how pointless is that? A daft gimmick that messes with your eyes. I'll not be getting one of those either.
+2 Unless mine happens to blow up inside of the next 4+ years i won't get one either. Seeing as there is only one other 21/9 TV out there though my guess is the only replacement would be the 58" 3D jobby from Philips which is either just about out or out there already ;)

Not interested in 3D myself, but what any buyer needs to remember is that the technology in the new 3D TVs should result in a better 2D picture :)

Alex_UK
29-12-2010, 22:15
I did mention 3D TV before, and wondered if anyone is interested. I've never even seen a demo yet, but the glasses puts me off to be honest. Maybe I'll try it one day, but when I think what I've spent for "bleeding edge" tech in the past, I'm giving up being a first adopter!

Reid Malenfant
29-12-2010, 22:22
<snip> but the glasses puts me off to be honest.
Precisely :spew: Apparently that reaction isn't unusual either :eyebrows: Along with headaches, dizziness & a general feeling of being unwell :rolleyes:

Jac Hawk
29-12-2010, 22:38
A mate of mine has been looking into 3D tv apparently there is 3 ways it works, the 1st and cheapest way is with polarised lenses using a normal 3d picture, where 1 picture is slightly out of line with th other, the second is by using glasses that sync with the picture that is transmitted, the glasses let you see only out of one eye at a time but refresh at high frequency with the picture being displayed and so give 3D, these 1st two ways are the cheapest as far as hardware is concerned, polarised glasses can use a normal HD tv on the synced glasses way needs an extra box as well as a HD TV. the 3rd way doesn't use any glasses apparently and it's all done by the tv, however the hardware for this costs a fortune.

To be honnest i'm with you guys as far as it doesn't make me want to get a 3D tv, but i also think that it's the future and like it or not broadcasters like sky will be telling us that it's what we NEED.

SteveW
29-12-2010, 22:57
Two days ago I bought a Sony kdl32ex403 from Richer Sounds for £299

Blimey ..thats worth knowing. I was looking at John Lewis with the 32 inch ex503,...but its £450ish. Wonder what you get for the latest model thats worth that much extra?

Reid Malenfant
29-12-2010, 23:07
To be honnest i'm with you guys as far as it doesn't make me want to get a 3D tv, but i also think that it's the future and like it or not broadcasters like sky will be telling us that it's what we NEED.
Sky can squark as much as they like as i can't hear them ;)

Nor any other TV channel come to that :eyebrows:

Until they can get 3D TV with no glasses at all i won't be in the slightest bit interested. It's just another way of selling the same blu rays all over again & for even more money :eek: It's just a plastic disc ffs, it doesn't cost hardly anything to make & the 3D ones have just as much data on them...

They kind of did the same trick when HD was first introduced with 720P & 768P TVs became available. A few years later you had to have 1080P :lol:

I didn't buy an LCD TV for at least 1.5 years after 1080P became commonplace as i needed to get the right specifications rather than something mediocre :)

MartinT
29-12-2010, 23:13
Panasonic Viera plasma, no doubt. Once you have one of these, all LCD TV pictures look quite poor in comparison.

SteveW
30-12-2010, 00:20
Panasonic Viera plasma, no doubt. Once you have one of these, all LCD TV pictures look quite poor in comparison.

Can I get a 32 inch Plasma?

Alex_UK
30-12-2010, 10:27
Can I get a 32 inch Plasma?

I don't think you can any more Steve - Panasonic did used to make a 32" I think, as did Hitachi I'm sure, but that was before LCD came along - the smallest Viera plasma is 37" - around £400 according to Google Shopping.

PS - the extra5 inches would be worthwhile IMO! :eek:

SteveW
30-12-2010, 10:53
I don't think you can any more Steve - Panasonic did used to make a 32" I think, as did Hitachi I'm sure, but that was before LCD came along - the smallest Viera plasma is 37" - around £400 according to Google Shopping.

PS - the extra5 inches would be worthwhile IMO! :eek:
Hey listen, I'm with you on this one.
But... in my world, (and as I've said somewhere before, to paraphrase a mate of mine in York a number of years ago.. ' Our Sue may wear the trousers in our 'house, but I fuckin iron 'em)
(funniest thing I ever heard, especially as we were both pissed at the time)

this is the sitting room which is to be redecorated and revamped... hence getting rid of the TV cabinet, which I quite like... but its going. So..I have a 40 inch Sony in a basement room , so can't complain too much really.

so...it looks like a 32inch. Just discovered the difference between the Sony 503 and 403 is Motionflow. Is it worth the difference between 300 quid and 450?
I dunno.

Mr Pig
30-12-2010, 11:37
Along with headaches, dizziness & a general feeling of being unwell

We all went to see Avatar in 3D. My wife felt so unwell she had to take the glasses off and watch it without them. I got used to it but after a while you forgot about the 3D aspect of it and I honestly don't think it would've made much difference if it had just been 2D. It's a damp squib.

It still took a few minutes for my eyes to adjust after I took the glasses off. While I got used to them it was not a pleasant feeling and there's no way I'd want to do that to my eyes every day. I also wonder about the long term effects on your eyes.

Normally, when you look at things that are at different distances, your eyes have to shift their focal distance and physically rotate towards each other as the objects draw nearer. Watching 3D on a screen they don't do this. They have to stay focused at the same distance despite your brain being bombarded with information telling it that the objects are moving. It's this conflict that causes the headaches and nausea. What effect will watching many hours of 3D TV have on the workings of the eyes? I doubt anyone knows yet but I can't see it being good.

WAD62
30-12-2010, 11:49
Panasonic Viera plasma, no doubt. Once you have one of these, all LCD TV pictures look quite poor in comparison.

Absolutely agree...

Get the NEO PDP version if you can (I'm pretty sure that's the only sort available now), as the contrast is even better than the original, and it's a little more efficient, and it has 1080p/24.

You'd have to spend an awful lot on a 'variable dimming' back lit LED/LCD to compete with the Viera plasma, and even then the motion would be inferior.

I'd advise you to go for something as large as possible, mine's a 42", and I have to sit 4' away before I can see any deterioration in a blu ray image.

As for 3D TV, it will only be useful when HD stereo image headsets become available, mixing 2 images on the same screen is just a recipe for a migraine :(

SteveW
30-12-2010, 11:54
We all went to see Avatar in 3D. My wife felt so unwell she had to take the glasses off and watch it without them. I got used to it but after a while you forgot about the 3D aspect of it and I honestly don't think it would've made much difference if it had just been 2D. It's a damp squib.

It still took a few minutes for my eyes to adjust after I took the glasses off. While I got used to them it was not a pleasant feeling and there's no way I'd want to do that to my eyes every day. I also wonder about the long term effects on your eyes.

Normally, when you look at things that are at different distances, your eyes have to shift their focal distance and physically rotate towards each other as the objects draw nearer. Watching 3D on a screen they don't do this. They have to stay focused at the same distance despite your brain being bombarded with information telling it that the objects are moving. It's this conflict that causes the headaches and nausea. What effect will watching many hours of 3D TV have on the workings of the eyes? I doubt anyone knows yet but I can't see it being good.


You say that now, but just wait till Flesh Gordon comes out in 3D.

The Vinyl Adventure
30-12-2010, 12:00
Hey listen, I'm with you on this one.
But... in my world, (and as I've said somewhere before, to paraphrase a mate of mine in York a number of years ago.. ' Our Sue may wear the trousers in our 'house, but I fuckin iron 'em)
(funniest thing I ever heard, especially as we were both pissed at the time)

this is the sitting room which is to be redecorated and revamped... hence getting rid of the TV cabinet, which I quite like... but its going. So..I have a 40 inch Sony in a basement room , so can't complain too much really.

so...it looks like a 32inch. Just discovered the difference between the Sony 503 and 403 is Motionflow. Is it worth the difference between 300 quid and 450?
I dunno.

Yes it is ... I sell these things right ... I have stared at them for literally days

Never mind "motionflow" thats just jargon ... It means 100hz over 50hz ...Here the thing

403 - 50hz, ccfl backlight - good tv
503 - 100hz ccfl backlight - better tv
(603 & 703 superseded by 713)
713 - 100hz, edge led backlight, fuck loads of superfluous features, over priced compared to 503... Edge led makes to much contrast IMHO

The 503 is the way to go ... Seriously ... Hours I have spent staring at these things ... I know it's subjective to a point ... But really ... The 503 is by far the best value!!

The Vinyl Adventure
30-12-2010, 12:09
That sounded right smug and bolchy didn't it ...
... Sorry steve ...

SteveW
30-12-2010, 12:41
That sounded right smug and bolchy didn't it ...
You can tell I get frustrated with customers in the shop when it comes to TV's eh ... Sorry steve ...
Don't say sorry...I'm seriously pleased to get such good advise.

colinB
30-12-2010, 13:15
Ive spent most of the week checking the Sony ex 32" sets and the higher ranges to, but i find it difficult to see the differences. It used to be , correct me if im wrong Hamish, W Bravia series great, U series minging and i bet a lot of people were confused and disappointed with the TVs they bought , but its not so clear cut now. The other great thing about the basic range is you can spend £ 300 on say the EX403 you get iplayer, lovefilm and 4od which would come in handy if like me you get varied reception.
Dont be tempted by the very cheap EX401 though. I saw it in store and it has serious lighting issues.

The Vinyl Adventure
30-12-2010, 15:40
Yeah it's all changed Colin
They are different "series" now
"network" NX
"essential" ex and bx
"signature" lx
"cinematic" hx

Mate, basically I have been selling the fuckers for 1 day a week (a few more over Xmas) for a year and I don't know what it all means ...

The bx and ex start shit and get good up to the 503 then they become ... I won't go into it again

The NX range are the only other ones I have experience of ... They are sometimes revered to as the "monolith" range because of the posh stand you can get for them ... To much contrast ... They do 3D over the ex and are uber contrasty

As for u though to w ... Well you missed x and z ;)
It doesn't work like that any more and I think it is somthing to do with different shops being able to stock different models ... Basically they have done it because the likes of tesco were devaluing the brand by selling them as loss leaders ... So now tesco and the like are only allowed te shit 401's etc

I think anyway ... Although I'm not 100% sure of most of that ;)

The Vinyl Adventure
30-12-2010, 15:51
... Would you belive Sony have actually stopped quoting certain specs, referring to the highest contrast ratio sets as have a ratio of "mega" ... I guess it just means 1,000,000:1 or somthing ... But on what scale .. Dynamic? Standard? What do either of those mean ... Who knows?? Well now we just have "mega" "dynamic" contrast ... I stopped tell my customers most of the specs of teles about 2 1/2 years ago ...
As I previously demonstrated now i only mention refresh rates as they seem to actually vaguely mean something and the type of backlight ... And I only mention that because it represents an inflated price for no real gain...
The thing with tvs ... Like hifi I supose ... If you look at the screen and you can't find fault then buy it ... But the first one you can't find fault in ...
Again like hifi, the specs ofter mean fuck all...
Panasonics new range of plasmas are called NeoPDP ... You know what that means?
Well Neo means new ... We know that bit ... PDP means "plasma display panel" I was in pc world once winding up a daft sales person he said ... "the Panasonic is good it has neopdp" I didn't have the heart to comment ...
I shall buy this new tv off you good sir because it has a new panel in it and when I buy new things I prefer them to have new bits in them as opposed to old bits ... Ha! It's all a load of marketing shite!!!

colinB
30-12-2010, 15:52
Its been an astonishing fall for Sony in the last 10 years. I remember Bravia was the set to buy and how cool the brand was with their adverts of people sliding down walls listening to Minidisc players.
They were always a couple of years ahead of the game but now they have Samsung up their arse and of course they didnt see Apple coming.
I dont think Japan has recovered from their 90s recession and i would imagine that has something to do with it.

Reid Malenfant
30-12-2010, 15:54
On the coffee are we Hamish :lolsign:

colinB
30-12-2010, 15:57
I saw 3 big screens in a shop window in Totenham crt road today, 2 panys and one philips all playing the Panasonic sales dvd. I was shocked to see the Panasonics judder like crazy. I thought that was a thing of the past but it seems companys are still selling shit in 2010.

The Vinyl Adventure
30-12-2010, 15:58
Some people ...

The Vinyl Adventure
30-12-2010, 16:00
On the coffee are we Hamish :lolsign:

Argument with other half ... ;)

colinB
30-12-2010, 16:00
... Would you belive Sony have actually stopped quoting certain specs, referring to the highest contrast ratio sets as have a ratio of "mega" ... I guess it just means 1,000,000:1 or somthing ... But on what scale .. Dynamic? Standard? What do either of those mean ... Who knows?? Well now we just have "mega" "dynamic" contrast ... I stopped tell my customers most of the specs of teles about 2 1/2 years ago ...
As I previously demonstrated now i only mention refresh rates as they seem to actually vaguely mean something and the type of backlight ... And I only mention that because it represents an inflated price for no real gain...
The thing with tvs ... Like hifi I supose ... If you look at the screen and you can't find fault then buy it ... But the first one you can't find fault in ...
Again like hifi, the specs ofter mean fuck all...
Panasonics new range of plasmas are called NeoPDP ... You know what that means?
Well Neo means new ... We know that bit ... PDP means "plasma display panel" I was in pc world once winding up a daft sales person he said ... "the Panasonic is good it has neopdp" I didn't have the heart to comment ...
I shall buy this new tv off you good sir because it has a new panel in it and when I buy new things I prefer them to have new bits in them as opposed to old bits ... Ha! It's all a load of marketing shite!!!

They are in danger of over processing i think. Some TVs you see they make movies look like video film and you dont get the proper cinema look people want.

The Vinyl Adventure
30-12-2010, 16:07
They are in danger of over processing i think. Some TVs you see they make movies look like video film and you dont get the proper cinema look people want.

In danger of it?? LCD is so fraught with over process it's stupid ... See my previous comment on te film volcano ...
The stupid thing is that now plasmas are going down the same route ... The problem is tvs don't look good in shops ... The lighting is completely different to what you have in a house ... So they have actually, seemingly, made TVs to work best under a cast of artificial strip lighting ... Genius ... That's exactly how I light my rooms ...

Reid Malenfant
30-12-2010, 16:07
They are in danger of over processing i think. Some TVs you see they make movies look like video film and you dont get the proper cinema look people want.
I'm in agreement with that ;) I'm more than happy with a dynamic contrast ratio of 80,000:1

My TV has all sorts of bells & whistles including 200Hz but it's all switched off. The 1mS response time is great but going to 200Hz messes it up as far as i'm concerned.

Just get a TV nicely calibrated (which you'll likely never see in a shop :eyebrows:) & off you go :)

MartinT
30-12-2010, 16:19
Get the NEO PDP version if you can (I'm pretty sure that's the only sort available now), as the contrast is even better than the original, and it's a little more efficient, and it has 1080p/24.

You'd have to spend an awful lot on a 'variable dimming' back lit LED/LCD to compete with the Viera plasma, and even then the motion would be inferior.

I do - I have a 42G20B and it's fabulous. It's not so much the motion that I notice, it's the richness and saturation of colours and the realistic presentation, not trying to make a flat image constrasty but presenting it as-is. It's this truthfulness to the original that I so like about the Pannys. There is a quality to the images that no LCD in my experience can produce, and I used to have a nice Sony before it.

colinB
30-12-2010, 16:24
You never know, a few years down the line some engineer entrepreneur will start making bespoke analogue tube tvs with a special edition mullard valve set.;)

Spectral Morn
30-12-2010, 16:59
And another thing... Even the 50hz 100hz thing is shite ... You look at 100hz Sony from 2 years ago and it's more jittery than a 50hz new one ... WTF??
It's just processing ... The Bravia 3 engine is better than Bravia 2 ... But they need to make up some sort of tangible shit fr people to hang on to when looking to buy a tv ...
People come in our shop and say "I have seen a tv with 600hz so why would I buy a 100hz Sony" ... Well look at the fucking picture you dick! ... Buy the tv who's picture appeals to you the most and stop asking me such fucking stupid 'I've been researching this for 2 weeks now' questions ... And while your at it have a fucking shower because you smell like B.O. ... !!

God it's good to vent somtimes!!


Ummmm not the wisest thing you have written considering you have named the company you work for in the past and you are now slagging off your and companies customers who are also your customers.

Having a bad day should stay in your head Hamish not end up online.

The people who come into your store are not all gifted with understanding of what they are asking for (even some who think they are are not) However it is your jog to guide them through the mine field to the right purchase for them. That was the way I did it when I sold TVs for a living.

Sometimes it was the set with lots of commission on it because it was what the customer wanted but more often than not it wasn't. My bosses never hassled me because I sold lots for them. Back in the day it was mostly Toshiba CRT TVs as they offered excellent picture and sound and were very reliable (I have a Dolby Digital 32inch in my bedroom from Toshiba). Sony's had better picture but if they went wrong it was a nightmare to get them fixed. JVC were okay but I felt Toshiba offered the best all round TVs. This was 8 years + ago. Frankly now days I would not touch a Toshiba LCD with a barge pole.

http://www.virtualmags.com.au/Sofa/reviews/dvdplayers/Toshiba/pics/toshiba_sd900e.gif

I still run a couple of Toshiba DVD players at home such as the SD 900 model and with DVD Audio and HDC CD they make excellent DVD players and CD Transports. How the mighty have fallen.From heroes to zeroes.

Link to review http://www.virtualmags.com.au/Sofa/reviews/dvdplayers/Toshiba/toshiba_900e.htm


Regards D S D L

Ali Tait
30-12-2010, 17:03
Interesting you say that Dave. We have a Tosh 42" LCD that my other half bought before we met. It's never gone wrong and I'd say the picture is very good. Some occasional pixellation, but it's rare.

WAD62
30-12-2010, 17:11
I do - I have a 42G20B and it's fabulous. It's not so much the motion that I notice, it's the richness and saturation of colours and the realistic presentation, not trying to make a flat image constrasty but presenting it as-is. It's this truthfulness to the original that I so like about the Pannys. There is a quality to the images that no LCD in my experience can produce, and I used to have a nice Sony before it.

Martin,

I think my post was a bit confusing, I was trying to re-emphasise your post to whoever was asking the initial question...:doh:

I'm pretty sure we have the same sets, although my selection process was a bit shambolic.

Initially I bought a Toshiba Regza LCD, what an error! No contrast, banding & smearing visible when the camera panned on a football match. That was replaced by the previous Viera plasma model (400 hz, pre PDP), which packed in after a couple of months. I stuck with Panasonic and replaced that on warranty with the 600Hz PDP version, which is the mutts nuts as far as I'm concerned.

Planet Earth on blu ray at 1080p/24Hz is staggering!!!
:cool:

Spectral Morn
30-12-2010, 17:12
Dave :scratch: :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Its just an opinion based on current observation.

When I sold Toshiba CRT TVs for a living Toshiba made their own sets (in Wales UK) and even their own tubes as well. As far as I know now they don't but I must concede to not paying a lot of attention to the TV market these days to the same degree I once did.

However I have yet to see any Toshiba sets offer the sort of sound and picture they once did compared to Sony and Panasonic. I always when an opportunity arises have a look at TV displays in the likes of John Lewis to see what's what.


Regards D S D L

Jonboy
30-12-2010, 17:42
I have been running a Pioneer 42 inch plasma for number of years, it was a toss up between that and a Fujitsu but price won on the day speakers were also an optional extra on the Fujitsu, very happy with it.

We went to see Gullivers Travels the other night in 3d apart from the film
being pants there was 22 people in the cinema and that was three days after its release, don't think 3d is here to stay either

Reid Malenfant
30-12-2010, 17:47
Planet Earth on blu ray at 1080p/24Hz is staggering!!!
:cool:
I guess it would be Will, but have you ever noticed that it's actually 1080i & 50Hz :eyebrows:

The Vinyl Adventure
30-12-2010, 18:01
Ummmm not the wisest thing you have written considering you have named the company you work for in the past and you are now slagging off your and companies customers who are also your customers.

Having a bad day should stay in your head Hamish not end up online.

The people who come into your store are not all gifted with understanding of what they are asking for (even some who think they are are not) However it is your jog to guide them through the mine field to the right purchase for them. That was the way I did it when I sold TVs for a living.

Sometimes it was the set with lots of commission on it because it was what the customer wanted but more often than not it wasn't. My bosses never hassled me because I sold lots for them. Back in the day it was mostly Toshiba CRT TVs as they offered excellent picture and sound and were very reliable (I have a Dolby Digital 32inch in my bedroom from Toshiba). Sony's had better picture but if they went wrong it was a nightmare to get them fixed. JVC were okay but I felt Toshiba offered the best all round TVs. This was 8 years + ago. Frankly now days I would not touch a Toshiba LCD with a barge pole.

http://www.virtualmags.com.au/Sofa/reviews/dvdplayers/Toshiba/pics/toshiba_sd900e.gif

I still run a couple of Toshiba DVD players at home such as the SD 900 model and with DVD Audio and HDC CD they make excellent DVD players and CD Transports. How the mighty have fallen.From heroes to zeroes.

Link to review http://www.virtualmags.com.au/Sofa/reviews/dvdplayers/Toshiba/toshiba_900e.htm


Regards D S D L

I say the same to them when they come in the store ... Well apart from the **** bit ;)

WAD62
30-12-2010, 18:09
I guess it would be Will, but have you ever noticed that it's actually 1080i & 50Hz :eyebrows:

Mark as you so rightly pointed out the box is marked as 1080i / 16:9, however the legend on the screen states 1080p/24, now I can see the BD player up-scaling to 1080p, but why the hell should it be stating 24Hz, anything else it up-scales is 50Hz.

It's a viera link BD player....:scratch::scratch::scratch:

Reid Malenfant
30-12-2010, 18:13
I have a Toshiba 42Z3030, the shop i bought it from keeps asking if i want to extend the warranty :eyebrows: Perfectly reliable & a cracking picture, ok so the contrast isn't up there with todays stuff but it's plenty good enough :)

Any LCD or plasma TV will only look good if it gets properly calibrated, there are at least 3 blu rays out there specifically for this purpose. If anyone with the remotest interest in getting a good picture doesn't own (or have access to) at least one then go & buy one now

Digital Video Essentials (DVE) HD Basics is a minimum

Spears & Munsil High Definition Benchmark is another

Silicon Optix HD HQV Benchmark is yet another

Personally i wouldn't be without any of them :doh:

Reid Malenfant
30-12-2010, 18:15
Mark as you so rightly pointed out the box is marked as 1080i / 16:9, however the legend on the screen states 1080p/24, now I can see the BD player up-scaling to 1080p, but why the hell should it be stating 24Hz, anything else it up-scales is 50Hz.

It's a viera link BD player....:scratch::scratch::scratch:
It's telling you pork pies Will :eek:

Yeah i should imagine you BD player will de-interlace it but it'll definately be 50Hz :scratch:

Reid Malenfant
30-12-2010, 18:28
It's a viera link BD player....:scratch::scratch::scratch:
What model??? DMP-BD80 by chance ;) If so they are the dogs danglies :eyebrows: Superb blu ray playback & unbelievable DVD upscaling :)

WAD62
30-12-2010, 18:35
It's telling you pork pies Will :eek:

Yeah i should imagine you BD player will de-interlace it but it'll definately be 50Hz :scratch:

Mark please find some rubbish photos attached, the first is the legend displayed by the BD player when one pauses, the second is the info from the TV player... err 24 and 24.

The only 24p setting is on the TV and is as follows;

24p Playback Plus
Automatically compensates the picture frame rate to make the 24p source movie
images smooth (Off / On)
●This is available only for 24p signal input and displayed instead of
“Intelligent Frame Creation”.
●This function is not available for selection (default to “Off”) when “Viewing Mode”
is set to “Game”
:scratch::scratch::scratch::scratch:

Reid Malenfant
30-12-2010, 18:38
That's freaky :eek: Must be something to do with the Viera link then as i have a Philips & Toshiba & i certainly don't get that :eyebrows:

WAD62
30-12-2010, 18:46
That's freaky :eek: Must be something to do with the Viera link then as i have a Philips & Toshiba & i certainly don't get that :eyebrows:

It's only the BD45

Everything on the BD player is set to 'Auto' (which will automatically upscale to 1080p), and 24P is activated, the only warning on this setting is that one must have a 24p capable TV...

Can it be re-mastering it to 24p, I can't imagine it has the processing power, so what the hell is going on...? Bonkers!!!

:scratch::scratch::scratch::scratch::scratch::scra tch:

Reid Malenfant
30-12-2010, 18:58
Can it be re-mastering it to 24p, I can't imagine it has the processing power, so what the hell is going on...? Bonkers!!!
It doesn't need virtually any processing power at all. In actual fact the machine will have an easier time of it as it'll be doing one frame less per second :eyebrows:

What you have normally on a 1080i 50Hz disc is 50 interlaced frames or if you like 25 progressive frames once de-interlaced per second. So your machine is chilling out a bit :lol:

WAD62
30-12-2010, 19:03
It doesn't need virtually any processing power at all. In actual fact the machine will have an easier time of it as it'll be doing one frame less per second :eyebrows:

What you have normally on a 1080i 50Hz disc is 50 interlaced frames or if you like 25 progressive frames once de-interlaced per second. So your machine is chilling out a bit :lol:

Seems that there may be many different versions...mine is the 5 disc set

http://forum.blu-ray.com/blu-ray-movies-north-america/15673-planet-earth-definitive-thread.html

:)

Reid Malenfant
30-12-2010, 19:11
Those people on Blu Ray.com are just confusing me & themselves a bit more :scratch: No wonder i get people PM'ing me on there asking me to check for region free or locked status & subtitles etc :eyebrows:

I have the BBC 2Entertain version with the box that folds out & 5 discs... 1080i :)

WAD62
30-12-2010, 20:47
Those people on Blu Ray.com are just confusing me & themselves a bit more :scratch: No wonder i get people PM'ing me on there asking me to check for region free or locked status & subtitles etc :eyebrows:

I have the BBC 2Entertain version with the box that folds out & 5 discs... 1080i :)

...it's going to remain a 24p mystery :)

Reid Malenfant
30-12-2010, 20:53
...it's going to remain a 24p mystery :)
Cheap enough at double the price :eyebrows:

MartinT
30-12-2010, 20:59
Digital Video Essentials (DVE) HD Basics is a minimum

Yup, that's my one (Blu-ray) and I had the Laserdisc and DVD versions, too.

WAD62
31-12-2010, 10:45
Cheap enough at double the price :eyebrows:

Very poor indeed...:lol:

All this checking has thrown up one thing...'Screen Burn'!!! :(

I was watching 'Crimson Wing' (worth having for the cinematic orchestra's score alone), it has a white initial menu screen, and guess what top right hand corner the fecking 'sky sports' logo.

As I've been watching every session of the ashes (obsessive cricket fan here :)) it's not hard to work out why...bloody 'hard' sky logos!!!

I've ordered this, more out of hope really;
http://screen-wipes.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=83

...I'll report back as to whether I've wasted my money or not :eyebrows:

MartinT
31-12-2010, 10:59
I don't suffer from any screen burn. You do have to run-in a plasma panel gently, then it'll be fine.

Mind you, the LCD panels at work are very screen-burned due to the noticeboard type messages that go on them every day.

Alex_UK
02-01-2011, 14:51
I don't suffer from any screen burn. You do have to run-in a plasma panel gently, then it'll be fine.

I certainly paid extra attention to running in my Viera as screen burn was something I was paranoid about having spent thousands on a telly, but so far (5 years +) no problems at all... (Shouldn't have said that, should I!)

pwood
02-01-2011, 15:21
Very poor indeed...:lol:

All this checking has thrown up one thing...'Screen Burn'!!! :(

I was watching 'Crimson Wing' (worth having for the cinematic orchestra's score alone), it has a white initial menu screen, and guess what top right hand corner the fecking 'sky sports' logo.

As I've been watching every session of the ashes (obsessive cricket fan here :)) it's not hard to work out why...bloody 'hard' sky logos!!!

I've ordered this, more out of hope really;
http://screen-wipes.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=83

...I'll report back as to whether I've wasted my money or not :eyebrows:

Don't panic yet its likely screen retention and will fade just avoid that channel for a while or use zoom to blow up screen to avoid the logo. whilst waiting for your disc to arrive try this free link for stuck pixels (http://www.jscreenfix.com/basic.php) which is apparently helpful for retention as well. You'll need to connect the laptop up though.

WAD62
03-01-2011, 11:23
Don't panic yet its likely screen retention and will fade just avoid that channel for a while or use zoom to blow up screen to avoid the logo. whilst waiting for your disc to arrive try this free link for stuck pixels (http://www.jscreenfix.com/basic.php) which is apparently helpful for retention as well. You'll need to connect the laptop up though.

Cheers for the info Paul, I'd had a look at some of the download software (as I have a 1080p HDMI out from my ASUS), but decided to give the disk a go as it allegedly comes with configuration patterns too...we'll see, should be arriving today.

I'm pretty sure you're right about it being retention, it is a very light 'ghost' of an image, perhaps it is the sort of thing a 'wash' disk can cure...fingers crossed.

My problem is that I'm a self confesses sportaholic, and the SKY SPORTS XXX logo is there in the same screen location on all 5 of their channels, after 25 (well 21 at the moment) days of the Ashes, and all of the festive football it doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to work out why the retention is there.

Perhaps we should have a thread on calibration disks, I think yourself & Mark mentioned 2 or 3 options...and you seem to have as much experience as anyone. Could be the first thread in the new 'Video' section :)

pwood
03-01-2011, 13:01
I have Digital Video Essential DVD which to be honest is not bad but if anything it confirmed to me that calibration is for ISF trained people with the correct measuring equipment ( correctly calibrated and accurate equipment not the Spiders of this world)and the knowledge to enter the Service Menu and not F" up the TV.

I had a Panasonic PV500 42" Plasma (first HDMI equipped PANNY)and it was prone to screen retention with the PRESS RED logo on BBC News 24 which I tended to have on. Over time it took longer and longer to fade which is the first indicator that screen burn could be a concern if I didn't start avoiding it more. As most TVs have a few settings ie Cinema, Normal, Dynamic:steam: and game or user preset I turned the contrast and brightness down as far as I could and used that when watching News 24 which was on in the background and it helped a fair bit. Trouble is once you see stubborn retention you get paranoid and stare at the one bit of screen wishing it to fade. Cheapest and easiest screen retention aid is to switch TV to analogue and disconnect aerial and leave the snow on for a few hours.

I now have a Panasonic G10 50" which is leaps ahead in retention and nothing lasts for long. My main reason was lack of 24fps support on the PV500 causing judder on slow pans which once you see it....:stalks:

Video section on here will be good as us AOS folks tend to avoid OTT mud slinging and point scoring.

WAD62
03-01-2011, 13:22
I have Digital Video Essential DVD which to be honest is not bad but if anything it confirmed to me that calibration is for ISF trained people with the correct measuring equipment ( correctly calibrated and accurate equipment not the Spiders of this world)and the knowledge to enter the Service Menu and not F" up the TV.

I had a Panasonic PV500 42" Plasma (first HDMI equipped PANNY)and it was prone to screen retention with the PRESS RED logo on BBC News 24 which I tended to have on. Over time it took longer and longer to fade which is the first indicator that screen burn could be a concern if I didn't start avoiding it more. As most TVs have a few settings ie Cinema, Normal, Dynamic:steam: and game or user preset I turned the contrast and brightness down as far as I could and used that when watching News 24 which was on in the background and it helped a fair bit. Trouble is once you see stubborn retention you get paranoid and stare at the one bit of screen wishing it to fade. Cheapest and easiest screen retention aid is to switch TV to analogue and disconnect aerial and leave the snow on for a few hours.

I now have a Panasonic G10 50" which is leaps ahead in retention and nothing lasts for long. My main reason was lack of 24fps support on the PV500 causing judder on slow pans which once you see it....:stalks:

Video section on here will be good as us AOS folks tend to avoid OTT mud slinging and point scoring.

Indeed, I think there's a thread on the subject in 'critics corner'...

I think most people on here are blessed/cursed with a perfectionist streak, once one's seen, or heard an issue you just can't ignore it!!!

I made the mistake of buying a Toshiba Regza LCD before I ultimately ended up with the panny. Whenever the camera panned on a football match the pitch appeared as a blur of green with dark banding.

I kept the Comet engineer 'hostage' until he eventually accepted that it was there, although he couldn't see it himself...in fact he said that it was the best picture he'd seen from a Regza!!! Thankfully I did this within the first 30 days.

Hence the panny upgrade... :)

Jason P
03-01-2011, 20:20
Well I'll just add my 2 pennorth' in...

Just got a Sony 32ex403 from M&S... £350 with a 5 year guarantee. Richers are doing them for £299 but they're a) like rocking horse poo and b) £330 with 5 years. Thought about doing a trudge to Exeter to pick one up from RS as Bristol had run out, but in the end Id've saved a tenner...

Now as a video editor, and someone who is very fussy about picture quality - I have to say I'm a bit gobsmacked by this set. With all the unnecessary processing turned off, the SD quality is outstanding when viewed from about 8 foot away. Its the first LCD I've ever seen I can live with happily, and it's not been calibrated yet. I'm feeding it with freeview from a Humax PVR, and running Component out via Scart - so not even HDMI. Have got to fish around in the edit suite for a co-ax lead to run the aerial signal to the telly before I get Freeview HD, but the picture over SD is good enough!! Also eager to get it connected to the interweb for i-player and the like...

I'm very impressed.

Jason

shane
07-01-2011, 10:56
It's not just me then!:)

WAD62
07-02-2011, 15:25
Very poor indeed...:lol:

All this checking has thrown up one thing...'Screen Burn'!!! :(

I was watching 'Crimson Wing' (worth having for the cinematic orchestra's score alone), it has a white initial menu screen, and guess what top right hand corner the fecking 'sky sports' logo.

As I've been watching every session of the ashes (obsessive cricket fan here :)) it's not hard to work out why...bloody 'hard' sky logos!!!

I've ordered this, more out of hope really;
http://screen-wipes.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=83

...I'll report back as to whether I've wasted my money or not :eyebrows:

I've been through the 'screen wash' process a couple of times now, a grand total of 9 hours each time, 6 on image 1, 2 on image 2, and 1 on image 3, as prescribed in the instructions...all with max contrast and brightness!

'screen wash' = 'hog wash'

I have wasted my money, the skysports HD logo is still there :(

Reid Malenfant
07-02-2011, 15:26
I have wasted my money, the skysports HD logo is still there :(
What type of screen is it Will? Plasma?

WAD62
07-02-2011, 21:29
What type of screen is it Will? Plasma?

Plasma indeed (Viera), it's not so bad but I'd rather it weren't there for OCD reasons...;)

Reid Malenfant
07-02-2011, 21:38
Thanks for the answer Will, i was going to say my PC should be well & truly f**ked displaying these forum pages if you'd said LCD :eyebrows:

I think modern plasmas have some kind of motion control to move stuff about a bit so it doesn't stay constantly burning the same pixels, how effective this is i have no idea :scratch:

Probably not much with those bloody annoying channel markers :rolleyes:

JimC
17-02-2011, 18:54
I've been through the 'screen wash' process a couple of times now, a grand total of 9 hours each time, 6 on image 1, 2 on image 2, and 1 on image 3, as prescribed in the instructions...all with max contrast and brightness!

'screen wash' = 'hog wash'

I have wasted my money, the skysports HD logo is still there :(

Try it on 'Analogue Snow' overnight. This can sometimes help.

Also people advocating (or not!) LED screens, unless they are 'O'LED screens they are all still LCD panels just with LED back/edge lights instead of the older type 'Fluorescent Tubes' (for want of a better term).

Panacronic Plasma for me if i had to replace my Pioneer Plasma (God forbid!!).

Cheers,

J.C.

blstransformers
03-03-2011, 10:50
I'll add another vote here for Panasonic plasmas. We got a 50" from Currys for £549 in January for the new house. Fed with an HD signal, it's fantastic, sharp and lifelike. I got a Panny BD player for it and upscaled DVDs are incredible. Was wathching The Fifth Elelment the other night and it was staggeringly lifelike. It felt like you could walk into the picture. (Mind you, the DVD of The Island looks like sh*te, but that could just be because it hates Michael Bay films, or that it was shot in grain-like-golf-balls-o-vision).

pwood
03-03-2011, 11:47
THE ISLAND has been shot using grain for atmospheric effect. Bugs the crap out me when they do that. Minority Report is another great film with grain a plenty.

Did you have to post the price you paid for your 50" Panny. Mine was £1400 a year and a half ago and the PV500 was £2.5K albeit luckily I sold HBOS shares when they were worth something to get that.

Alex_UK
03-03-2011, 23:03
...but there's always someone worse off than you Paul - I paid over £2k for my 42" Viera - and it's not even 1080P! Still, a fantastic display, and I haven't yet felt the need to upgrade after 7(?) years

blstransformers
10-03-2011, 11:30
Grain-for-atmosphere bugs the crap out of me too. (Says the bloke who used to push 400ASA film 2 stops in the darkroom to really bring out the grain in his landscape shots).:)

Rare Bird
12-03-2011, 17:20
Just been down Comet for a new Kettle, while paying no intensions to the kettle what so ever some magnetic force pulled me over to the new 3D tellies..The Sony 3D Bravia look beautiful wall mounted, i was very impressed with the picture quality..One of the best looking TV i've yet seen.

Reid Malenfant
12-03-2011, 18:27
Grain-for-atmosphere bugs the crap out of me too.
Don't go there please :rolleyes: I almost can't stand to watch Spielbergs' Saving Private Ryan, Minority Report & War Of The Worlds :eek:

I want a high definition film, not high definition grain :mental:

MCRU
12-03-2011, 19:03
...but there's always someone worse off than you Paul - I paid over £2k for my 42" Viera - and it's not even 1080P! Still, a fantastic display, and I haven't yet felt the need to upgrade after 7(?) years

Not even into AV anymore but I have a 1080i panny and no need at all to change it as sky HD is 1080i, nuff said (3D is pants BTW)

MartinT
12-03-2011, 20:00
The Sony 3D Bravia look beautiful wall mounted

Save yourself money, Andr'e, and buy the non-3D one. The picture is just as good.

Rare Bird
12-03-2011, 20:15
Save yourself money, Andr'e, and buy the non-3D one. The picture is just as good.

Are the aesthetics the same? i'm not bothered about 3D bit, it was the design of the telly that attracted me,really really nice. the picture was just a bonus.

MartinT
12-03-2011, 22:28
Not sure. Which model?

Rare Bird
13-03-2011, 00:25
KDL-40NX713 It's 40'' beautiful thats well enough big for our living room

synsei
13-03-2011, 02:35
Don't buy any make of LED TV

(1) Its stop gap tech they will be gone fairly soon

(2) They only look good on HiGH Def pictures not standard def. So suitable for watching HD movies on, nothing else.

Plasma will give the best movement, black levels and contrast. However only the Panasonic ones are worth buying....anything else NO....don't do it.

LCD Oh dear oh dear :doh::( only the most expensive imho give a decent picture and even then the movement artefacts (even on HD sources) are jerky and lacking the fluidity of a good plasma or a CRT TV. Standard def material looks poor on LCD TVs even the dear ones. Panasonic, Loewe and Sony make pretty good LCD TVs (best of a bad bunch) but frankly I have yet to see any LCD I could live with.

If you could get one of the G8 model Pioneers from two years ago those were very good, best plasmas I had ever seen but screen burn is a major issue with plasma technology.

Why we need TV ident logos is beyond me :doh::( I know the reasons given by the TV channels but it is a crock.....Are we so stupid that we don't know what channel we are watching..... Why do the logos have to be there all the time ? so big and so bright....

I will be sticking with my nice big Panasonic 37in CRT TV.

Charity shops are a nice place to get CRT TVs cheap now and in the last few months I have spotted a number of excellent Sony 28 and 32 inch FX65 and FQ75 sets (5 - 7 years ago the very best Sony had on their books) These were £1700 in the charity shops £50 to £100 :) Best picture you could get at the time bar the top Loewe models....I would still love a nice 32 inch Top of the range one of those :cool:


Oh yes don't get me started about the environmental bollocks of Plasma and LCD/LED/LEO. CRT TV is still best in this regard....


Regards D S D L

Actually Neil I beg to differ concerning your LED TV Hi Def/Lo Def comment. My ex bought herself a 47" LG LED tv (dunno the model but I will find out and post later) a few months back from Richer Sounds in Leicester, who were by all accounts most accommodating, allowing her to switch sources (HD/LD/BluRay & DVD) and play with the piccy settings etc. She was in the shop for nearly 2hrs messing about with various TV's and apart from a huge Super Widescreen Philips jobby at two and a half grand, she said the LG offered the best piccies in any format by a long chalk, and having seen it for myself now I wouldn't disagree, the picture quality is absolutely stunning, even on standard LD Freeview. Incidentally, she bought it for 800 quid, reduced from £1,499.

MartinT
13-03-2011, 12:08
KDL-40NX713 It's 40'' beautiful thats well enough big for our living room

I remember the NX stands for net connected, so is there not a 513 that looks the same but doesn't support 3D? It's just that Sony frequently do this, and you could save money by not going for all the 3D crapness.

pwood
14-03-2011, 14:32
Actually Neil I beg to differ concerning your LED TV Hi Def/Lo Def comment. My ex bought herself a 47" LG LED tv (dunno the model but I will find out and post later) a few months back from Richer Sounds in Leicester, who were by all accounts most accommodating, allowing her to switch sources (HD/LD/BluRay & DVD) and play with the piccy settings etc. She was in the shop for nearly 2hrs messing about with various TV's and apart from a huge Super Widescreen Philips jobby at two and a half grand, she said the LG offered the best piccies in any format by a long chalk, and having seen it for myself now I wouldn't disagree, the picture quality is absolutely stunning, even on standard LD Freeview. Incidentally, she bought it for 800 quid, reduced from £1,499.

LG's get overlooked far to often if you ask me. Their colour calibration is better that any Samsung /Sony I have ever seen and cost less. I am not surprised it looked better in a shop than a Plasma as LCD (thats what an LED TV is just using those for the backlight) is brighter which in a well lit shop is beneficial. This is the main reason apart from the guff about screen burn and retention that people end up buying an LCD based on a side by side in a shop. In a typical darkened living room watching something with a lot of black in it, the black levels on a plasma are all to obvious to see. Localized LED backlit tv's are far better nowdays but cost rather more than the equiv Plasma and I have yet to see one better my G10 never mind an old Kuro.

The Best thing with LG's are the proper calibration tools within the setup menus. My 22" is brilliant and very stable.

chris@panteg
27-03-2012, 23:02
Last week I had a rush of blood or moment of madness and bought a Sony 40EX723BU , the 3D was not something I was going to use .

Cutting to the chase, after three days of endless fiddling and looking at the picture very carefully , its already back in its box and will shortly be heading back to Amazon !

2 main issues for me 1st the sound was dreadful , now I have a home cinema set up etc , but I don't always want to use it when watching TV , even at very moderate listening levels I could hear distortion and cabinet rattle/vibration , its horrendous .
I could probably have lived with that if the picture was great , its good so long as you are sitting on axis (very poor viewing angle) though a bit understated or dim yet the contrast still seems too high ? But that wasn't the worst news , there is a lot of backlight bleed around the bottom left and right corners and pretty much all round the screen , dark scenes look awful .

I've come to a very rapid conclusion that I don't like Edge lit LED/LCD screens , going back to my old Bravia 32' S3020 , I actually prefer the picture on this 720p LCD and the sound is much better .

I was going to buy a Panasonic 42 G30 but was worried it might be too big , having tried the 40' Sony I think i can stretch to a 42 now , just hope some are left for sale after I've returned the Sony and got my money back .

Waste of time ? Not really but I've learned that Sony TV's are not what they used to be , shame .

Rare Bird
27-03-2012, 23:13
Blimey Chris i bought a small 26'' Sony looked great in the shop but ive not tried it yet

chris@panteg
27-03-2012, 23:42
Blimey Chris i bought a small 26'' Sony looked great in the shop but ive not tried it yet

Hi Andre

Is it an edge LED ? If so you had better check it out mate , if it's CCFL backlit , it should be ok .

StanleyB
28-03-2012, 09:58
Last week I had a rush of blood or moment of madness and bought a Sony 40EX723BU , the 3D was not something I was going to use .

Cutting to the chase, after three days of endless fiddling and looking at the picture very carefully , its already back in its box and will shortly be heading back to Amazon !
I recently bought the 32EX723 and it does take a while to set up right. But first you need to wire it up to the internet and then update the firmware. After that things start improving. The TV needed burning in for a few days before any dark patches disappeared.

Finding the correct picture and sound option took a few days.
Picture mode should be set to VIVID.
Backlight is MAX.
Contrast is MAX

Sound Mode = Standard
Surround = OFF

Scree Format = FULL

Try the above and see if you get a far better picture.

The narrow viewing angle is due to the 3D capability I think. It doesn't affect me since I use it in the bedroom and it is mounted right in front of me.

Feature wise I can now do things with my Sony that I only dreamt about before. One of them is to watch movies stored on my laptop. The Sony can pick up the Video folder via the wireless network on my laptop. I also use it to catch up on missed BBC and C5 programs via iPlayer and Demand.

chris@panteg
28-03-2012, 10:28
I recently bought the 32EX723 and it does take a while to set up right. But first you need to wire it up to the internet and then update the firmware. After that things start improving. The TV needed burning in for a few days before any dark patches disappeared.

Finding the correct picture and sound option took a few days.
Picture mode should be set to VIVID.
Backlight is MAX.
Contrast is MAX

Sound Mode = Standard
Surround = OFF

Scree Format = FULL

Try the above and see if you get a far better picture.

The narrow viewing angle is due to the 3D capability I think. It doesn't affect me since I use it in the bedroom and it is mounted right in front of me.

Feature wise I can now do things with my Sony that I only dreamt about before. One of them is to watch movies stored on my laptop. The Sony can pick up the Video folder via the wireless network on my laptop. I also use it to catch up on missed BBC and C5 programs via iPlayer and Demand.

Hi Stan

Those settings seem crazy to me , backlight on max ? Contrast max ? Have you ever tried turning off the light sensor in the eco menu ?

Try doing this and then watch a dark scene , late at night if possible ? Look in the bottom left and right corners , I was getting what looked like 2 searchlights pointing in , bit like 20th century fox lol

The backlight bleeding effect is apparently considered normal and acceptable by Sony ? I find it unacceptable and it won't ever go away I'm afraid ! I did do the firmware update too .

chris@panteg
28-03-2012, 10:32
I agree it is marvelous in what it can do but I have to say I'm not that impressed with the overall picture quality , but the vibrating/rattling speakers just really finished it off .

I can't believe Sony would allow these faults and I think QC has seriously plummeted sadly.

Rare Bird
28-03-2012, 12:09
Chris are you sure it's not an iffy TV cos i viewed this TV & found it superb even the one we have!!

chris@panteg
28-03-2012, 14:11
Chris are you sure it's not an iffy TV cos i viewed this TV & found it superb even the one we have!!

Maybe , but there are many buyers who have had similar problems ! It's gone back now , and I won't be trying another or any edge LED , I didn't like the picture anyway ! Only HD looked good on it , anything else was crap.

Going to try a plasma next.

shane
28-03-2012, 15:41
Quite like the idea of a 55" TV that's 4mm thick:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/ces/8989445/The-future-of-television-LG-reveals-4mm-thick-OLED-TV.html

Mark Grant
28-03-2012, 16:52
I was going to buy a Panasonic 42 G30 but was worried it might be too big , having tried the 40' Sony I think i can stretch to a 42 now , just hope some are left for sale after I've returned the Sony and got my money back .


The Panasonic 42 inch G30 is excellent and a low price at the moment, it will use more power than an LED lit TV but I guess you are after picture quality.:)
Are there any local shops you can look at rather than chancing an online buy?

chris@panteg
28-03-2012, 17:24
The Panasonic 42 inch G30 is excellent and a low price at the moment, it will use more power than an LED lit TV but I guess you are after picture quality.:)
Are there any local shops you can look at rather than chancing an online buy?

Yes one shop near me , stock is low or almost sold out , better move quick.

chris@panteg
29-03-2012, 10:21
To give some idea of the problem i had with the Sony EX723 40' here is a picture i found on AVforums , on my set it was worse in the right hand corner but this image is very similar to how mine looked ! Does anyone think its acceptable ? Or could you put up with it ? I couldn't !

http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww70/Puma937/CIMG1019.jpg

Alex_UK
29-03-2012, 10:45
I couldn't put up with it... One reason why I'm still sticking with my 8 year old Panny Plasma - until it breaks. Then I'll buy another. :)

chris@panteg
29-03-2012, 10:49
I couldn't put up with it... One reason why I'm still sticking with my 8 year old Panny Plasma - until it breaks. Then I'll buy another. :)

Very wise :) I won't be going anywhere near another LCD/LED edge tv , I've made my my mind up to get the G30 42' , if i can .

Mothman
29-03-2012, 11:26
Chris, I bought the next model down (Sony 40CX523) before Xmas and have also been dissapointed with the picture. This is a standard LCD set (non 3D) and whilst the picture is reasonably clear it is very gloomy, also the HD picture is pretty much the same as SD, it's hard to tell the difference.

Have spent endless hours fiddling with the calibration settings to no avail and now just leave it in "Movie" mode which is the best of a bad bunch. The set also has a very annoying presence sensor which decides it will turn the set off at random times even though I have disabled this setting in the menu.

Rare Bird
29-03-2012, 11:33
To give some idea of the problem i had

Um i see what you mean..

chris@panteg
29-03-2012, 11:53
Chris, I bought the next model down (Sony 40CX523) before Xmas and have also been dissapointed with the picture. This is a standard LCD set (non 3D) and whilst the picture is reasonably clear it is very gloomy, also the HD picture is pretty much the same as SD, it's hard to tell the difference.

Have spent endless hours fiddling with the calibration settings to no avail and now just leave it in "Movie" mode which is the best of a bad bunch. The set also has a very annoying presence sensor which decides it will turn the set off at random times even though I have disabled this setting in the menu.

Hi Rich

Does it have an eco menu ? Light sensor ? if so turn that off and you will get full output , mine came with it on as default , looked very gloomy and dark ! Could be a deliberate move by Sony to try and hide the backlight bleed ?

aquapiranha
29-03-2012, 17:18
Currys have a good deal on a nice Sony LED with free bluray player...

http://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/sony-bravia-kdl-46hx823-full-hd-46-led-3d-tv-with-free-bdp-s480-3d-ready-blu-ray-player-12295406-pdt.html?srcid=369&xtor=AL-1&cmpid=aff~HotUKDeals~

PS, it is backlit..

http://www.meetgadget.com/gadget/45665/Sony+BRAVIA+KDL-46HX823

Mothman
29-03-2012, 18:51
Hi Rich

Does it have an eco menu ? Light sensor ? if so turn that off and you will get full output , mine came with it on as default , looked very gloomy and dark ! Could be a deliberate move by Sony to try and hide the backlight bleed ?

Thanks Chris on ours the Light Sensor was also on by default, I have now turned it off and will see if things improve any.

The presence sensor problem is a real PITA and drives my missus potty as she is the one that watches most of the telly in our house, can only assume it is a firmware problem as turning it off in the settings seems to make no difference.

Yomanze
29-03-2012, 19:26
LG and Samsung make most of the hardware across most other manufacturers' sets, so either of these are no-brainer IMO. However, there's something about Sony when they get it right!

chris@panteg
29-03-2012, 19:26
Thanks Chris on ours the Light Sensor was also on by default, I have now turned it off and will see if things improve any.

The presence sensor problem is a real PITA and drives my missus potty as she is the one that watches most of the telly in our house, can only assume it is a firmware problem as turning it off in the settings seems to make no difference.

Blimey , have you tried to update the firmware ? At least you should get a brighter picture now , let us know , I've heard that your set is reckoned to be a better buy than the one I've just returned ?

Reid Malenfant
29-03-2012, 19:34
There is no way I'd have put up with that Twentieth Century Fox effect Chris :nono:

LED backlit TVs can be ok, even some of the edge lit ones don't appear to be too bad. Where they fall down is dynamic contrast as each LED is lighting up a pretty big area.

The best LED TVs are area lit, this makes the TV deeper as it's not lit from the edge, but there are far more LEDs lighting up smaller areas at a distance behind the LCD panel. These can individually be dimmed, so you end up with stunning contrast ratios even if another area of the TV is at full brightness :)

As an example my Philips which is cold cathode tube lit has a dynamic contrast of 80,000:1, but the whole screen dims to do it... The newer 58" version is area lit LED & manages 10,000,000:1 :eyebrows:

chris@panteg
30-03-2012, 09:06
There is no way I'd have put up with that Twentieth Century Fox effect Chris :nono:

LED backlit TVs can be ok, even some of the edge lit ones don't appear to be too bad. Where they fall down is dynamic contrast as each LED is lighting up a pretty big area.

The best LED TVs are area lit, this makes the TV deeper as it's not lit from the edge, but there are far more LEDs lighting up smaller areas at a distance behind the LCD panel. These can individually be dimmed, so you end up with stunning contrast ratios even if another area of the TV is at full brightness :)

As an example my Philips which is cold cathode tube lit has a dynamic contrast of 80,000:1, but the whole screen dims to do it... The newr 58" version is area lit LED & manages 10,000,000:1 :eyebrows:

Makes sense to me , I can't help thinking it just a marketing ploy ? Along with 3D, get people to upgrade , they should do it properly (local dimming LED) or just stick with CCFL ! IMHO.

twelvebears
30-03-2012, 16:57
I bought one of these and I'm absolutely delighted with it:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004WN8UAI/ref=oh_o02_s00_i00_details

Looks great, really slim with a narrow boarder round the screen and the picture is bang-on.

I specifically went or old-skool plasma rather than LED and haven't regretted it. The colour is excellent and the contrast is fantastic.

It's only a 720 but I can tell you that it kicks the arse of my old 37" 1080 Hitachi!

chris@panteg
30-03-2012, 23:09
Hi Steve

Yeah , I've heard LG plasmas are good ! An alternative to the Panasonic , loads of pubs tend to have these sets .

MartinT
10-04-2012, 06:39
My experience of LG is that PQ is not as good as the Panasonics.

chris@panteg
10-04-2012, 08:20
My experience of LG is that PQ is not as good as the Panasonics.

I still haven't bought anything yet , the LG plasmas tend to be 720p at my budget , I've had a good look at the G30 and S30 , I'm a bit worried by how gloomy and dull the G30 looks !
It also has a very green colour balance and doesn't do whites very well , I also had a look at one of the new panels for this year (G15) XT50 and although a low end model with 720p it looked superb I must say .

I might hang on and see how good the new range is , I do want 1080p and freeview HD .

MartinT
10-04-2012, 10:07
I have a G20 Chris and I can assure you that the colour balance and whites are superb. However, like all plasmas they need a) running-in for a week and b) the settings changed from standard. The G30 if anything should be even better.

chris@panteg
10-04-2012, 10:24
I have a G20 Chris and I can assure you that the colour balance and whites are superb. However, like all plasmas they need a) running-in for a week and b) the settings changed from standard. The G30 if anything should be even better.

Yes I'm sure a bit of calibrating will sort it out , the G30 does look the one to get for me , any issues with flicker ? (The 50 hertz bug) This is something that plasma owners talk about on the AV forums .

MartinT
10-04-2012, 11:00
No flicker at all - I leave it in the high refresh (600Hz I think) setting.

chris@panteg
10-04-2012, 11:29
No flicker at all - I leave it in the high refresh (600Hz I think) setting.

:) Ok , I've ordered a 42' G30 , my 1st plasma , hope I like it .

Mark Grant
10-04-2012, 11:31
That's great :)

MartinT
10-04-2012, 11:44
:) Ok , I've ordered a 42' G30 , my 1st plasma , hope I like it .

Well done, Chris. When you receive it, get it set up and going and just leave it running as much as you can. The picture will seem pale and wishy-washy to start with but the colour saturation just gets better and better as you run it for a week or so. I have noted my settings at home so let me know if you want them as a starting point, however the G30 is likely to be a little different from the G20.

chris@panteg
10-04-2012, 14:14
Well done, Chris. When you receive it, get it set up and going and just leave it running as much as you can. The picture will seem pale and wishy-washy to start with but the colour saturation just gets better and better as you run it for a week or so. I have noted my settings at home so let me know if you want them as a starting point, however the G30 is likely to be a little different from the G20.

Thanks Martin and Mark .

I've found some settings , will use those as a starting point , being delivered on Friday.

chris@panteg
13-04-2012, 12:13
Panny plasma delivered safely and up and running , most impressed with the currys delivery guys ! Very courteous and helpful .

Build quality is very good , the stand is very solid , set up was a breeze , 1st impressions are very good ! Picture looks superb with real depth and clarity , and in a fairly well lit room too , will play with it more later but I was struck by how people's hair looked ! Pam Stephenson was on this morning and I could see all of the strands of her very fine golden hair !

What a telly !

MartinT
13-04-2012, 12:22
Sounds promising, Chris. The picture will improve over the next week or so, then you can play with the settings :)

Mark Grant
13-04-2012, 12:31
Pam Stephenson was on this morning and I could see all of the strands of her very fine golden hair !

What a telly !

You where looking at her hair? :D

Good result with the Panasonic plasma :)

chris@panteg
13-04-2012, 13:54
You where looking at her hair? :D

Good result with the Panasonic plasma :)

:D well she ain't half bad for a granny , my wife was very impressed with the panny too and that's saying something .