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Mr. C
21-07-2008, 13:21
With all of Howard's threads of late relating to buying publics perspective, I thought it might be nice to have one from the other side of the fence.
Customers who feel it worth taking the warm urine on regular basis, those who 'feel' its the given right to obtain product at absurd offers.
Recently I had a phone call from a pleasant chap who wished for an 'ex-demo' / used purchase of a £2000 piece of equipment for £1000 LOL! Fair play for trying it, however realistically be reasonable, even used this kit goes for the £1300/1450 mark. How desperate do you feel dealers are!!!
Those too who feel it is great for a 'jolly' to waste valuable dealer time in demoing products they wish to try but do not want to part with the currency until the have heard the unit (s). Had no intention of buying in this country anyway. Just plain out right users,Professional time wasters of the nth degree.
An age old problem I agree however, seems to be gaining popularity of late.
Perhaps in the way of naming and shaming so called bad dealers, maybe a rogues galley of 'professional time wastes' should be circulated between dealers?
Maybe a deposit to be paid for a demonstration and the facilities (fully refundable) on complication on the demo ( even if no purchase was made, showing genuine commitment from the customers who really was interested in hearing the equipment).
Our time is just that time, to fully set up for a demonstration we take at least 4 hours of prep.
You are wishing to hear the equipment at it best and 'sorry mate, I didn't have time to set it up' after traveling 100 miles is insulting at best and simply will not do.
Some of us are professionals and do take care in our abilities and customer care plus the ability to make a half reasonable sound throw in as well!
Not a rant here, just some observations!
Mr.C (Tony)

Marco
21-07-2008, 14:13
Personally I wouldn't disturb a dealer until I was in the market to definitely buy something and in the process of auditioning various bits of kit. I'm there to do business and I just don't see the point in wasting my time or the dealer's with the type of nonsense you describe. I can't abide time wasters in any walk of life. By the time I get to the dealer stage I will already have done my research and narrowed whatever I'm buying down to a shortlist of two or three items. The dealer will have been chosen because he stocks at least one of the items in question. It's therefore simply a case of listening and buying something or arranging a home demo of a favourite item in order to make a final decision on purchase.

However, as I am a serious buyer I expert 'serious' service in return and for the dealer to 'go the extra mile' to satisfy my reasonable requests. I also expect him to have my long term interests at heart and not simply out to make a quick sale. I like to build up long term profitable relationships, for all concerned, and not to be seen as merely a 'pound sign'.

The old saying 'the customer is always right' is something I believe in wholeheartedly, providing the customer is serious about buying something. As long as that's the case then I would expect the dealer to always put my interests first and not attempt to 'groom' me into becoming a disciple of his way of thinking/system building/hi-fi sensibilities, or whatever. It's my system, my money, so I'm 'the boss'...within reason of course!!

This is how I treat my customers when running my art/picture framing business. At the end of the day, and as they say, 'people buy from people', so you have to establish a rapport with the customer and be liked by them in order to ensure repeat business. Competing on price is only half the battle. I have deliberately gone out my way to buy something from a dealer, sometimes travelling miles, who I liked because of his attitude/service, or whatever, despite him charging quite considerably more for the same item. It's my money and I'm choosy whom I give it to.

Knowing how you operate, you do a good job, though! :)

Marco.

gary
21-07-2008, 14:28
Mr C.
Just about everyone in the retail trade has to deal with customers who waste your time its just par for the course I guess , I was fortunate enough to have a dem arranged for me several years ago at Loud & Clear in Glasgow and I had no intention of making a purchase at the time Alan the dealer knew this before hand right enough, this could have been thought of as time wasting except that I really appreciated this and returned to his shop several years later and have since spent several thousand pounds there, I agree however that using a dealers facilities and then buying elswhere is wrong I am not sure if your idea of refundable deposit would work right enough may just push potential customers elswhere

jandl100
21-07-2008, 14:41
MrC - you've got a fekkin' cheek posting about customers taking the piss .... talk about the pot calling the kettle black! :mental:

Marco
21-07-2008, 14:43
Just watch this doesn't get personal please, chaps!

Marco.

tfarney
21-07-2008, 15:09
I don't know what it's like in England, but here in the US, the contempt for the customer is so thinly veiled at so many high-end shops that the last thing they need is a list of reasons why customers are idiots, even if they are.

Tim

Marco
21-07-2008, 15:57
You see why is that, Tim?

I just don't get it. Why do these people go into business in the first place - what on earth do they hope to achieve?

If you start a hi-end hi-fi dealership with the sole premise of making lots of money then you are nothing but a fool. And if you think you can do it without showing respect for your customers then you're an even bigger fool!!

No-one should go into business where you're in direct contact with the general public if you're not a 'people person'. If you don't like interacting and talking to people, being pleasant in the process, then you're in the wrong profession - it's as simple as that.

The fact is people buy YOU first THEN the product you're selling. This is a golden rule of business and dealers who can't grasp, or won't grasp, this have got next to no chance of being a success. In this day and age in such a competitive marketplace you have to be one step ahead in all angles of business, so if you can't get the basics right and treat customers properly then you're doomed from the word go.

So do something else instead!

Marco.

Mr. C
21-07-2008, 16:01
Tim,

I would agree that a few dealers do have the contempt issue firmly ingrained in their mantra, though in the main here they are fair few good ones without question.
This thread is an observation not a rant.

Neil McCauley
21-07-2008, 16:06
Sadly, some suppliers, usually those with just 4 letters in the trading name of their principle supplier(s) really don't like that approach it seems. Whereas in some retail situations, mystery shoppers are employed to determine if the retailer is knowledegable, skilled in the meet 'n greet technique and so on, in the audiophile world it is sometimes applied to determine if the retailer is really a Kafir (unbeliever) or not.

You see for some makers, merely selling the product just isn't enough. Not only must you be able to regurgitate the dogma on demand but - and here's the heavy bit - you must be able to evangelise the ethos so that the owner becomes loyal to the brand. Not to the dealer, the brand!


---//---

Marco
21-07-2008, 16:21
You see for some makers, merely selling the product just isn't enough. Not only must you be able to regurgitate the dogma on demand but - and here's the heavy bit - you must be able to evangelise the ethos so that the owner becomes loyal to the brand. Not to the dealer, the brand!


I'm sorry, Howard, but anyone who's stupid enough to fall for that bullshit deserves to be fleeced for every penny they've got!

Brand loyalty like that is quite simply for mugs.

Marco.

Neil McCauley
21-07-2008, 16:24
I'm sorry, Howard, but anyone who's stupid enough to fall for that bullshit deserves to be fleeced for every penny they've got!

Brand loyalty like that is quite simply for mugs.

Marco.
Quite correct. My next post might illuminate. Then again, it might not.


---//---

Neil McCauley
21-07-2008, 16:26
All makers of the type I describe (in a previous post today) ascribe to a long term commercial view. Ergo, the dealer is expendable by and large. Brand values and the public’s perception of them, in their view, are not. “Plenty more fish in sea” was not only implied and probably still is, but stated unambiguously.

The commercial life expectancy of a retailer is finite. The driving forces behind many makers are so ego-centric that they truly believe their brand's lifespan and value is infinite.

So behind the rhetoric, the smiles, the phoney awards and the bullshit, a contempt for the customer is in some sectors endemic. And by this I mean the retailer as the customer i.e. not the end user. And so it goes. Moving on, more than one high profile figure has stated unequivocally that he feels his end-users are in the main fools for paying so much for so little.

The end-user is not loved by the maker and rarely by the retailer. However their money most certainly is. And it’s the same with some maker / distributor relationship with their retail networks.

More on this when I can get around to this.


---//---

Marco
21-07-2008, 16:46
The end-user is not loved by the maker and rarely by the retailer. However their money most certainly is. And it’s the same with some maker / distributor relationship with their retail networks.


You see that's the bit I don't get. Why go into retail in the first place if you don't like dealing with people? It's sheer lunacy bordering on the imbecilic!

The whole point about being in business is because you enjoy what you're doing and you're passionate about the product(s) you're selling. If that's not the case then what kind of job satisfaction are you going to get? No matter how on earth you think you'll ever be successful!

I run my own business as an art dealer/picture framer because (in order of priority):

1) I love art.
2) I enjoy selling and talking to people.
3) I enjoy the products I sell improving people's lifestyles.
4) It makes me a good living.

When 1-3 are effectively established/achieved 4 takes care of itself.

It would be the exact same if I sold hi-fi.

That's not too difficult a business model to follow for manufacturers/distributors and retailers is it?

Marco.

tfarney
21-07-2008, 17:01
A couple of things:

Contempt for the customer -- I don't get it either. But I consult to a lot of different kinds of businesses and I can testify that it is neither limited to audio or high-end products. It is fairly common, and I'm not sure it has all that much to do with not liking contact with the public. I think it has a lot to do with finding out, upon that contact, that the public doesn't agree and doesn't see the merits of what we have put our hearts, souls and egos into. The public does a lot things that make no sense to those of us who fancy ourselves to be "in the know," like buying lots of Bose products and continuing to prefer them over products we know our superior, even after we clearly demonstrate the superiority. Sometimes, being right is a cross to bear. :) And that, of course, brings us to brand loyalty....

This is the pot at the end of the rainbow. It's what all companies should strive to be good enough to deserve, and while it looks a lot like lemmings tipping toward the bottom of the cliff from over here, it's not so bad if it is the right brand, inspiring loyalty for the right reasons. When this computer gives up, it would take an act of God to get me to give a serious look to anything other than an Apple. Does that make me a blind, mindless brand loyalist? On the contrary, it means that I've learned my lesson, I know who makes products in that category that suit my needs and I don't need to waste time and money thrashing about. When the time comes, I can simply go buy my replacement. At the Apple Store, where they treat me with courtesy and respect, no matter how clueless I may be.

Tim

Ali Tait
21-07-2008, 18:12
Tim,
Please don't take this too seriously,but why is it every American I've ever conversed with refers to the United Kingdom as England? There are after all many of us that do not live in England, i.e. the Scots,the Welsh and the Northern Irish!

Yours,Ali.(Scots and proud of it!) :)

Sorry for the O.T. post.

snapper
21-07-2008, 18:35
+1

David (Scots and proud of it!) :)

Marco
21-07-2008, 18:39
LOL. +2. Does a Scots/Italian count? :eyebrows:

Marco.

Prince of Darkness
21-07-2008, 18:42
I'm Northumbrian, been resident in Scotland over 12 years. Got married wearing a kilt. When Scotland gets independence, I'll take Scottish citizienship!:)

Beechwoods
21-07-2008, 18:51
Well I come from the People's Republic of Stokes Croft (http://www.prsc.org.uk/) and I'll take you all on :)

Marco
21-07-2008, 18:52
I'm Northumbrian, been resident in Scotland over 12 years. Got married wearing a kilt. When Scotland gets independence, I'll take Scottish citizienship!


Aye, and ye're a braw wee chanter, too! :lol:

Marco.

Marco
21-07-2008, 18:55
Well I come from the People's Republic of Stokes Croft (http://www.prsc.org.uk/) and I'll take you all on :)

Nae bother, Beechy boy, come into me... Toon Tongs, ya bass! :guns:

:chainsaw:

Marco.

Ali Tait
21-07-2008, 20:40
Awa n boil yer heid!! :lolsign:

Marco
21-07-2008, 21:30
LOL. Enough of this hilarity, back on topic...

Marco.

shane
22-07-2008, 09:46
Tim,
Please don't take this too seriously,but why is it every American I've ever conversed with refers to the United Kingdom as England? There are after all many of us that do not live in England, i.e. the Scots,the Welsh and the Northern Irish!

Yours,Ali.(Scots and proud of it!) :)

Sorry for the O.T. post.

Looking at this thread, a thought strikes me. Can any of you Welsh, Scots, Northumbrians or Bristolians tell me which state Tim comes from? No? Thought not. And how many would call him a Yank without thinking about it?


Shane (half Irish, half Scot, naturalised Devonian, call me English if you want to, as long as you're well meaning I don't mind).

Steve Toy
22-07-2008, 10:11
And how many would call him a Yank without thinking about it?



This point has already been covered. In Britspeak the term Yank applies to everyone from the USA both North and South of the Dixon/Mason line. A Yankee is someone hailing from North of this line. Thus Tim is a Yank but not a Yankee.

Whilst English is the language spoken by pretty much everyone living in the British Isles, English cannot be used as a generic description of everyone living there because (for some unknown reason) it causes offence to Scots, Welsh and Irish (who universally hate the English, probably out of jealousy :o ;)) :door:

shane
22-07-2008, 10:16
In Britspeak the term Yank applies to everyone from the USA both North and South of the Dixon/Mason line.

In the same way that in Yankspeak, English means anyone form the UK perhaps?

Steve Toy
22-07-2008, 10:21
In the same way that in Yankspeak, English means anyone form the UK perhaps?


Simultaneous posting. I think I've covered the points.

hiredfox
22-07-2008, 15:05
As a customer, here are some things for you dealers to take on board. Why do you insist on charging sterling prices for imported components priced in dollars when the exchange rate is 2:1? Why are most of you so arrogant, opinionated and unapproachable when all you are selling are boxes of electronics? Why do you always answer a simple enquiry with a question aimed at undermining a customer's existing choice of equipment?

Understand these and you'll understand why so many customers do their utmost to look after their own interests. Wherever possible, I will buy from any source that offers me the fairest deal available. With very few exceptions that I know of, you guys just come across as self-serving and unhelpful, Sure, we all have to make a living but don't kill our hobby by being dismissive and greedy.

On the other hand I have never led a dealer up the garden path, I ask rarely for a demo as when the time comes to buy, the decision is usually backed up by months of research. So, if the price is right (FAIR!) for that component, if I walk into your shop or call you, you have more or less made a sale...

Neil McCauley
22-07-2008, 15:14
As a customer, here are some things for you dealers to take on board. Why do you insist on charging sterling prices for imported components priced in dollars when the exchange rate is 2:1? .

Check this here: http://blog.listencarefully.co.uk/?p=3025


---//---

Neil McCauley
22-07-2008, 15:22
...........if I walk into your shop or call you, you have more or less made a sale...
Regretfully I canít include clairvoyance as part of my suite of selling skills. In fact I donít know any retailers that do.

Mind you, my pal Jim Dovey (late of KJ Leisuresound, Wigmore Street) told me to always look at the shoes. His view based on more years of experience than mine was that time-wasters donít usually wear cheap footwear. But then again, that was before the trainers era.


--//--

Neil McCauley
22-07-2008, 15:25
Wherever possible, I will buy from any source that offers me the fairest deal available.

Is "fairest deal available" in your terms, purely financial – or do you include aftersales service such as loan equipment in the event of a failure; guaranteed minimum buy-back in year #1 and things like that?


---//---

tfarney
23-07-2008, 02:59
Tim,
Please don't take this too seriously,but why is it every American I've ever conversed with refers to the United Kingdom as England? There are after all many of us that do not live in England, i.e. the Scots,the Welsh and the Northern Irish!

Yours,Ali.(Scots and proud of it!) :)

Sorry for the O.T. post.

I have no idea why we do that, though I'm sure we do. Perhaps it is because The Beatles, The Stones, The Faces, Yes, King Crimson, etc, were all English and we just can't get past it. Personally, I so dearly love the Wetton/Bruford/Cross era Crimso that I cannot get past it, but I digress. Perhaps some of them were Welsh or Scots and we're blissfully unaware.

Perhaps it's because most of us over here are mutts, or worse, Irish mutts, and many of us move around freely enough that we don't often think of ourselves as New Yorkers or North Carolinians but, rather, as simply
American. Which means US. Which irritates our neighbors to the north and south, I'm sure.

And, being originally from Illinois, home of Abraham Lincoln, who was sort of the ultimate Yankee, I'm both a Yankee and a Yank. Or to put a finer point on it, I'm a damned Yankee. It is a fine point, and a Southern one. Here, a Yankee is a northerner who comes to visit, spends a bit of cash, soaks up the sun then goes back from whence he came. A damned Yankee stays.

Tim

greenhomeelectronics
23-07-2008, 07:41
Very interesting thread here with lots of points of view. I think Marco has nailed it when he asks why people that don't like people should go in to retail. If you are not a people person do something else! I love audio equipment, right from the cheapest Sony all in one system up to the most expensive and exclusive multi thousand pound hi fi component. I love the fact that people from right across the wealth spectrum can come to us and go away with the ability to listen to and enjoy THEIR music. It does not matter to me whether a customer spends 10 pounds or a thousand pounds, if we have a happy customer I get a warm feeling that makes the day worthwhile. Sure I have bills to pay but there has to be so much more to life than that. We get timewasters only very occasionaly, most people come to us with a genuine intention to buy, very few people come to our premises and go away with nothing. The original suggestion of charging to sell to customers would be abhorant to me, I personally have more respect for my customers than that and would not punish the majority for the actions of the minority.
All the best to all,
Dave.

anthonyTD
23-07-2008, 08:03
Very interesting thread here with lots of points of view. I think Marco has nailed it when he asks why people that don't like people should go in to retail. If you are not a people person do something else! I love audio equipment, right from the cheapest Sony all in one system up to the most expensive and exclusive multi thousand pound hi fi component. I love the fact that people from right across the wealth spectrum can come to us and go away with the ability to listen to and enjoy THEIR music. It does not matter to me whether a customer spends 10 pounds or a thousand pounds, if we have a happy customer I get a warm feeling that makes the day worthwhile. Sure I have bills to pay but there has to be so much more to life than that. We get timewasters only very occasionaly, most people come to us with a genuine intention to buy, very few people come to our premises and go away with nothing. The original suggestion of charging to sell to customers would be abhorant to me, I personally have more respect for my customers than that and would not punish the majority for the actions of the minority.
All the best to all,
Dave.

very well put!!!
anthony...:)

Mike Reed
23-07-2008, 08:58
I have no idea why we do that

Perhaps it's because most of us over here are mutts, or worse, Irish mutts, and many of us move around freely enough that we don't often think of ourselves as New Yorkers or North Carolinians but, rather, as simply
American. Which means US. Which irritates our neighbors to the north and south, I'm sure.

And, being originally from Illinois, home of Abraham Lincoln, who was sort of the ultimate Yankee, I'm both a Yankee and a Yank. Or to put a finer point on it, I'm a damned Yankee. It is a fine point, and a Southern one. Here, a Yankee is a northerner who comes to visit, spends a bit of cash, soaks up the sun then goes back from whence he came. A damned Yankee stays.

Tim

A delightful little analysis; nothing to do with the thread title, of course, but instructive nonetheless.

Odd, how each inhabitant of each country in 'America' (comprising North, South and Central ) is called by his country adjective. Except those from the U.S.of A., who are ONLY (as far as I know) called 'Americans'. (In polite language, that is !).

I vaguely remember being taught that Columbus referred to the Caribbean islands as 'The Americas', as this was his first point of call. Or was it Amerigo (Portuguese?) who previously used his name?

By the way, what is the origin of 'Yanquis', as I believe it was originally known by. (French?)

History is fascinating; so is hifi. I wonder if anybody has written a history of hifi. A complete history, that is, as there are many books on aspects or periods in audio history. When would it start from? The first cylinder?

Steve Toy
23-07-2008, 10:00
"Mary had a little lamb."

Beechwoods
23-07-2008, 10:21
"Mary had a little lamb."

:doh:

"Au Clair De La Lune"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7318180.stm

Marco
23-07-2008, 15:09
I think Marco has nailed it when he asks why people that don't like people should go in to retail. If you are not a people person do something else! I love audio equipment, right from the cheapest Sony all in one system up to the most expensive and exclusive multi thousand pound hi fi component. I love the fact that people from right across the wealth spectrum can come to us and go away with the ability to listen to and enjoy THEIR music. It does not matter to me whether a customer spends 10 pounds or a thousand pounds, if we have a happy customer I get a warm feeling that makes the day worthwhile. Sure I have bills to pay but there has to be so much more to life than that.


Hi Dave,

Spot on, mate. That is exactly my ethos in business. We all have to make a living, sure, but if you go into any business with the sole premise of seeing it as a money making exercise then chances are it will fail, sooner or later; usually when the 'entrepreneur' has run out of scams or 'get rich quick schemes'...

To be successful, long term, you have to be in business for the right reasons, and quite simply that means taking delight in making people satisfied and happy when buying the products you sell, and looking after them afterwards. Job satisfaction for me will also always be more important than out and out profit as how satisfied you feel in your working life has a direct impact on your business success.

Like you, I get an immense feeling of satisfaction when making a customer happy with their purchase regardless of how much they have spent. Thing is, the £20 cable buyer of today could be the £2000 amplifier buyer (or whatever) of tomorrow... Never underestimate who you are dealing with!

Marco.

Marco
23-07-2008, 16:04
Tim,

You've made some good points, however regarding this bit:


Contempt for the customer -- I don't get it either. But I consult to a lot of different kinds of businesses and I can testify that it is neither limited to audio or high-end products. It is fairly common, and I'm not sure it has all that much to do with not liking contact with the public. I think it has a lot to do with finding out, upon that contact, that the public doesn't agree and doesn't see the merits of what we have put our hearts, souls and egos into...

I don't doubt that's the case, and if it is, you've neither done your business plan or your market research properly. Only a fool starts a business to massage his or her ego. Yes it's satisfying when people' buy into' our passions and what we believe in, but if they don't the only person to blame is you.

You start a business because you believe in the worth of the product or service you are selling, but there's no point in doing so if there isn't a demand for that product or service in the first place in the area you are in (I'm thinking retail premises here not on-line businesses).

Romantic notions, for example, of running a country pub will quickly turn into a nightmare if you don't give the locals what they want. You may want to serve fresh Dover sole with shrimp sauce at £25 a pop to discerning diners because you're passionate about gourmet food, but if the locals *want* Shepard's pie and mash then that's what you give them - but you give them the best Shepard's pie and mash they've ever eaten. It's the exact same with a hi-fi dealership. You can't sell Krell to an Amstrad audience, but you can give the Amstrad audience 'Krell service', and then try to educate them to better things.

So if 'Joe public' doesn't like what you're selling, chances are you're selling the wrong thing to the wrong person and it's time for a rethink...

Marco.

tfarney
23-07-2008, 17:44
Marco, I suspect that very few high-end audio salons are started with a business plan, but that most of them are started because their founders "believe in the worth of the product or service you are selling." I think the trouble begins when they find out that a bit less of the public than they hoped shares that belief. The high-end is a tough sell. It has its own small niche market, and beyond it, at least on this side of the pond, the high-end is often viewed with great skepticism. I'm sure that's hard on true believers. Considering the unbeliever an idiot is a pretty natural response, but a very bad business practice.

Heck, I'm a pure midfi guy compared to most of the folks on this board. I'm a bit of a nut compared to most of my friends.

Tim

Marco
23-07-2008, 17:58
Marco, I suspect that very few high-end audio salons are started with a business plan, but that most of them are started because their founders "believe in the worth of the product or service you are selling." I think the trouble begins when they find out that a bit less of the public than they hoped shares that belief.


Yep, but when that happens it's time for 'Plan B' - not taking it out on your customers because they don't share your enthusiasm for what you're selling! You have to supply the demand. And starting any business without a business plan and doing some market research is quite frankly ludicrous. You can't just wait for things to happen, you have to *make* them happen and set yourself appropriate goals.

This is all basic common sense stuff as far as I'm concerned.

Are the "high-end audio salons" where you are really so clueless?

Marco.

tfarney
23-07-2008, 20:19
Yep, but when that happens it's time for 'Plan B' - not taking it out on your customers because they don't share your enthusiasm for what you're selling! You have to supply the demand. And starting any business without a business plan and doing some market research is quite frankly ludicrous. You can't just wait for things to happen, you have to *make* them happen and set yourself appropriate goals.

This is all basic common sense stuff as far as I'm concerned.

Are the "high-end audio salons" where you are really so clueless?

Marco.

No, I don't think they're clueless. I think their business plans are intuitive, not the B-school stuff, but what the heck, that's the way it was done for a couple of hundred years before business schools were invented by academics looking for new sources of income. Even without the formal plan, I think most of them know who their market is, but many of them seem to have no real patience for anyone who is even a few degrees off target. And just below the surface, I think they have little patience for customers who are dead on target but just happen to prefer different choices. The vinyl guys dismiss cds. The tube guys dismiss solid state. The sales guys dismiss the brands, no matter how high end, that they don't have, and everyone dismisses pure digital, blissfully unaware that it is looming right over their shoulders, a breath away from eating their young and spitting glass. When I think about it, they're not much different than many of their customers :)!

But that picture was painted with a broad brush. There are plenty of exceptions.

Tim

Marco
24-07-2008, 09:20
I know where you're coming from, Tim, but such laid-back attitudes in business rarely succeed. Perhaps they did 20 or 30 years ago but not now. In today's highly competitive marketplace you have to plan to succeed or succeed to fail. Goals have to be set, and targets reached, otherwise a business will stagnate. Therefore you need a plan.

Like I said before, it's all about having the right attitude. A good businessman or salesman tailors his or her approach to suit the 'character type' of each customer - you have to relate to people on their level if they are to 'buy' you and then the product or service you are selling. You can't preach to people or tell them they are 'wrong' - even if they are!

I have no time whatsoever for know-it-all salespeople or business owners who try to dictate to their customers 'how it is'. In a sales situation, nine times out of ten when all the talking is being done by the salesman/boss of a business, and almost none from the customer, it results in no sale being made. The former is more interested in the 'pitch' (and the sound of their own voice) than understanding the needs of the customer.

Hey, isn’t this a fun topic for a hi-fi forum! :lolsign:

Marco.

tfarney
24-07-2008, 19:56
I know where you're coming from, Tim, but such laid-back attitudes in business rarely succeed. Perhaps they did 20 or 30 years ago but not now. In today's highly competitive marketplace you have to plan to succeed or succeed to fail. Goals have to be set, and targets reached, otherwise a business will stagnate. Therefore you need a plan.

Like I said before, it's all about having the right attitude. A good businessman or salesman tailors his or her approach to suit the 'character type' of each customer - you have to relate to people on their level if they are to 'buy' you and then the product or service you are selling. You can't preach to people or tell them they are 'wrong' - even if they are!

I have no time whatsoever for know-it-all salespeople or business owners who try to dictate to their customers 'how it is'. In a sales situation, nine times out of ten when all the talking is being done by the salesman/boss of a business, and almost none from the customer, it results in no sale being made. The former is more interested in the 'pitch' (and the sound of their own voice) than understanding the needs of the customer.

Hey, isn’t this a fun topic for a hi-fi forum! :lolsign:

Marco.

It is a fun topic, eh? And I essentially agree, Marco. I just think a lot of successful plans - both "then" and now - are done on the backs of napkins and by the seats of pants. If you have a product that is truly differentiated from the competition by something that appeals to a large enough target market, and you have enough sales/production capacity to serve that market when it finds you, that's a plan. Hell, show me that and I'll bring the market to your door. If I believe in it enough, I'll even take my payment based on results, as I'll make a lot more money that way. And there doesn't have to be a single MBA in the room.

Tim