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Neil McCauley
15-07-2008, 08:37
Overview:

My prediction as to the impact of the current economic situation on the import and distribution of audiophile gear.

I have received a couple of emails on this topic and hoped that my responses might be of passing interest to fellow forum enthusiasts.

First, my comments relate only to importation (and peripherally, exportation) and distribution. I’ve no ideas I want to share currently re UK audiophile retailing.

Ditch the UK importer?

I think it is likely that sooner of later, some US makers and possibly Japanese too might well ditch importers and sell direct to UK retailers. This is entirely feasible logistically. Already Densen (so I believe) deal directly with UK retailers without, as far as I can tell, a detrimental impact on the end-user buying experience.

Given that in a previous posting I focused on the fact that some UK importers need to send failed equipment back to foreign makers because of inadequate or non-existent sophisticated servicing facilities in the UK, I very much doubt if under this scenario, the delay for end-users would be any worse than it is now.

At a stroke, the maker could (but not necessarily would) slash retail costs by at least 20% and I suspect in some cases very much more. The prudent (rather than avaricious and greedy ones) might retain a percentage of that saving for themselves, increase the retailer’s margin and reduce RRP to gain a competitive edge.

The downside for the retailer is that under this scenario, they wouldn’t get credit. The offshore maker would want payment up front as indeed they do with UK importers. Some retailers will go to the wall if this were to happen, others will thrive.

Is this already happening?

My understanding, albeit inverted, is that The Funk Firm now deal direct with their USA retailer network,

Alternatively / additionally?

Bearing in mind that there is already an established cluster of importers who are retailers i.e. they either have no ability and/or no desire to have UK retailers (possibly so that they maximise their profit) and/or because they do not have the resources to provide credit to other retailers, I suspect that sooner of later a high profile specialist low-volume (compared to Sony, Denon, etc) will let natural erosion of the UK retailer network to take place and progressively look to sell direct to the public - if they aren't already doing this secretly right now.

If this were to happen, ‘civilians’ would be hopelessly naive to hope that the retail price would be reduced.

Given that despite until recently the US Dollar was very weak indeed against the £ sterling, and there was not one iota of downwards price shift as far as I could see, one might reasonably expect a slew of carefully prepared press releases (weasel words) claiming that henceforth a better service will be offered. Who knows?

That’s it really.

Nothing more than a prediction via my crystal balls.


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Steve Toy
15-07-2008, 10:06
Still over 2 USD to 1 GBP but both have weakened against the Euro.

A few months ago the prices of Spectral and Accuphase gear increased after falling just over a year ago.

Neil McCauley
15-07-2008, 10:50
Re Accuphase at non-stupid UK prices, I'd look here: http://www.pia-hifi.de/accuphase/vollverstaerker.htm

I'd phone the guy, get him to give you the contacts for his German network, find one of them with what you want in stock and if you can find the time, drive over and collect it - stuffing yourself silly with Bockwurst and/or Coffee Cake (Munich is best) if you've a mind to. Come to think of it, I might well do this myself.

Meanwhile ........

http://shop.ebay.co.uk/items/?_nkw=Accuphase&_in_kw=1&_ex_kw=&_sacat=See-All-Categories&_mPrRngCbx=1&_udlo=90&_udhi=&_sabdlo=&_sabdhi=&_samilow=&_samihi=&_ftrt=901&_ftrv=1&_sadis=200&_fpos=&LH_SubLocation=1&_sargn=-1%26saslc%3D0&fsradio2=%26LH_LocatedIn%3D1&_salic=77&_saact=3&LH_SALE_CURRENCY=0


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StanleyB
15-07-2008, 16:52
But does the public want lower prices??? I have been told many times that my prices are too low, which means people won't think my stuff is as good as something far more expensive. That's even though I only sell direct to end-users. So prices might as well stay high in the audio market. Too many people like to know they spent mega bucks on their gear, even if they can buy the same or far better for far less.

snapper
15-07-2008, 17:00
Well Stan,I think your prices are too high.

:lolsign:





But I'm still using your DAC in preference to my Perpetual Technologies P-1A and P-3A.

Steve Toy
15-07-2008, 17:07
Personally I want the best sound per £/$/€. I like to use my ears not my bank balance to decide what's best.


Too many people like to know they spent mega bucks on their gear, even if they can buy the same or far better for far less.

Such people are undiscerning mugs.

The Art of Sound is about good taste and being able to choose with your ears.

tfarney
15-07-2008, 17:18
Not sure I understand this part, Howard...


If this were to happen, ‘civilians’ would be hopelessly naive to hope that the retail price would be reduced.


...lots of smaller specialty companies sell direct to the public at well below what the same items would cost through distributors and retailers. It is a huge part of the basic internet business model.

Sorry to hear about the crystalization, by the way. :)

Tim

Togil
15-07-2008, 17:21
Re Accuphase at non-stupid UK prices, I'd look here: http://www.pia-hifi.de/accuphase/vollverstaerker.htm

- stuffing yourself silly with Bockwurst and/or Coffee Cake (Munich is best) if you've a mind to. Come to think of it, I might well do this myself.

Meanwhile ........


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Bockwurst ? Not likely in Munich :)

StanleyB
15-07-2008, 17:30
Well Stan,I think your prices are too high.

:lolsign:

But I'm still using your DAC in preference to my Perpetual Technologies P-1A and P-3A.
which is why I have been keeping the MK7 on the back burner;). People are too skint right now. Even the local lady of the nite is offering cut price discounts for two..

snapper
15-07-2008, 17:38
Even the local lady of the nite is offering cut price discounts for two..


What are you suggesting Stan,you after me,for sloppy seconds?


:bog:


:lol:

StanleyB
15-07-2008, 17:43
Shortest straw goes last:lolsign:

snapper
15-07-2008, 18:19
Shortest straw goes last:lolsign:


I think I'll pass then.


Maybe I'll just have some :cool: instead.

Marco
15-07-2008, 18:29
I just love the thread drift in this place! :lol:

Marco.

snapper
15-07-2008, 19:04
:sorry:


:o

Yomanze
15-07-2008, 20:07
Re Accuphase at non-stupid UK prices, I'd look here: http://www.pia-hifi.de/accuphase/vollverstaerker.htm

I'd phone the guy, get him to give you the contacts for his German network, find one of them with what you want in stock and if you can find the time, drive over and collect it - stuffing yourself silly with Bockwurst and/or Coffee Cake (Munich is best) if you've a mind to. Come to think of it, I might well do this myself.

Meanwhile ........

http://shop.ebay.co.uk/items/?_nkw=Accuphase&_in_kw=1&_ex_kw=&_sacat=See-All-Categories&_mPrRngCbx=1&_udlo=90&_udhi=&_sabdlo=&_sabdhi=&_samilow=&_samihi=&_ftrt=901&_ftrv=1&_sadis=200&_fpos=&LH_SubLocation=1&_sargn=-1%26saslc%3D0&fsradio2=%26LH_LocatedIn%3D1&_salic=77&_saact=3&LH_SALE_CURRENCY=0


---//---

Good call.

Alternatively. From the UK, book a ticket to New York and stay in a $150 for the night hotel. Take spending money for coke and hookers. Stroll worse-for-wear to the Apple store & purchase a top-spec Macbook Pro. Enjoy the sights until the last flight in the evening back to the UK. Arrive in Britain having paid the same if you'd bought it there - who in the hell is going to check a discretely packed laptop.

Filterlab
15-07-2008, 20:11
...I have been told many times that my prices are too low, which means people won't think my stuff is as good as something far more expensive...

That's almost unbelievable! I've learnt recently that the price of a component is almost irrelevant to it's performance, certainly when it comes to non-mainstream stuff. A few more could do with judging by their ears rather than their egos.

Togil
15-07-2008, 20:14
Re Accuphase at non-stupid UK prices, I'd look here: http://www.pia-hifi.de/accuphase/vollverstaerker.htm



---//---

unless the Audio Consultant's prices on their website are out of date Accuphase is currently no cheaper in Germany than in the UK ( given the current £/Euro exchange rate )

Yomanze
15-07-2008, 20:15
I think I'll pass then.


Maybe I'll just have some :cool: instead.

Not to mention some sensimilia. :smoking:

Good points Stan. Status symbols and egos do rule the roost in too many ways.

Neil McCauley
15-07-2008, 21:37
unless the Audio Consultant's prices on their website are out of date Accuphase is currently no cheaper in Germany than in the UK ( given the current £/Euro exchange rate )
Yes, but was that the case say 9 weeks back? Somehow I doubt it.


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Neil McCauley
15-07-2008, 21:40
That's almost unbelievable! I've learnt recently that the price of a component is almost irrelevant to it's performance, certainly when it comes to non-mainstream stuff. A few more could do with judging by their ears rather than their egos.
If you were offered say a diamond for £5.00 or a Ferrari for £1,000 or a Leica M3 for £87.46 - would you seriously consider it? Let's forget all about the qualifying comments, investigations etc. Just think of it this way - advert for a road-going Ferrari for £1,000. Would you really really take it seriously?

---//---

Neil McCauley
15-07-2008, 21:43
I just love the thread drift in this place! :lol:

Marco.
Like some sort of tightrope act here. Doesn't take much to sway a bit does it?


---//---

Mike
15-07-2008, 21:47
Like some sort of tightrope act here. Doesn't take much to sway a bit does it?

---//---

Not in the least Howard.

This place has a tendency, at times, to go off on more tangents than a geometry teacher on psycho-active drugs! (Hmm, I'm sure I've said that before :scratch:)

Cheers,

Neil McCauley
15-07-2008, 22:24
Must make a mental note to chill out about these things. Gave myself a savage beating until I confessed that it really was awright to deviate on forums. It's supposed to be fun I guess. Looked up 'fun' in the dictionary. Read the words but couldn't figure out what they meant. Concluded I must currently be funless. No such word but it'll do. Sons told me to get a life. Looked on eBay. All the good ones have gone. Phoned Samaritans. Would you Adam & Eve It? Engaged! Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Sick / bored of seeing my name as a thread starter on the forum Make note to take a back seat for a few days. Let others get a look in. Seems only fair.

Worried sick about Amy Whitehouse - not. Triumph of marketing over mediocrity, like Bjork, Sinnead O'connor, Elvis bloody Costello, any boy band, any girlie band. Err, that's it.


---//---

StanleyB
15-07-2008, 23:45
Jeez Howard, if you keep on like that you are going to end up like me...

Getting back to economics: I was speaking to someone I have known for many years about the current problems in his country, the US, and how he is taking on the down turn. He owns a rather large hardware store and has resorted to INCREASE his stock level of fast moving items. At the same time he dropped his margins slightly below his competitors. Every night he takes some stock off the slow movers and puts them in the warehouse. The trick appears to work and he is busier than any similar business in his neighbourhood.

tfarney
15-07-2008, 23:50
Must make a mental note to chill out about these things. Gave myself a savage beating until I confessed that it really was awright to deviate on forums. It's supposed to be fun I guess. Looked up 'fun' in the dictionary. Read the words but couldn't figure out what they meant. Concluded I must currently be funless. No such word but it'll do. Sons told me to get a life. Looked on eBay. All the good ones have gone. Phoned Samaritans. Would you Adam & Eve It? Engaged! Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Sick / bored of seeing my name as a thread starter on the forum Make note to take a back seat for a few days. Let others get a look in. Seems only fair.

Worried sick about Amy Whitehouse - not. Triumph of marketing over mediocrity, like Bjork, Sinnead O'connor, Elvis bloody Costello, any boy band, any girlie band. Err, that's it.


---//---

I dunno, Howard. I've always thought Elvis Costello is pretty bloody brilliant. And I would have thought that if all he'd ever done was Armed Forces and Imperial Bedroom.

Tim

Steve Toy
16-07-2008, 00:53
Howard,

This is a lesson perhaps in knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing; how do we ascertain value regarding hi-fi without using our ears and music?

It is also a lesson of knowing that if something seems too good to be true then it almost certainly is.

A Ferrari for a grand is one to avoid but this is no way the same as an amplifier for a grand that may actually be better than one for say, five times the price.

As for your thread starting, it is certainly the most creative and thought-provoking we've seen on this forum without actually trolling.

I'm not going to stop you! :)

Filterlab
16-07-2008, 07:53
If you were offered say a diamond for £5.00 or a Ferrari for £1,000 or a Leica M3 for £87.46 - would you seriously consider it? Let's forget all about the qualifying comments, investigations etc. Just think of it this way - advert for a road-going Ferrari for £1,000. Would you really really take it seriously?

---//---

I should have added 'within reason' to my post. Obviously a £9.99 CD player is never going to be hi-fi and a £200 amplifier will never be high end, but my Mac and DAC combo has comfortably beaten my MF combo (A3.5 & Tri-Vista) for a heck of a lot less money. The same applies in a lot of cases (but not all) and sometimes really high end sound is only a tweak or two away in a modest component. :)

Mike Reed
16-07-2008, 09:21
Must make a mental note to chill out about these things. Gave myself a savage beating until I confessed that it really was awright to deviate on forums. It's supposed to be fun I guess. Looked up 'fun' in the dictionary. Read the words but couldn't figure out what they meant. Concluded I must currently be funless. No such word but it'll do. Sons told me to get a life. Looked on eBay. All the good ones have gone. Phoned Samaritans. Would you Adam & Eve It? Engaged! Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Very droll. I subscribe to deviancy when it's that funny ! How do you sleep at night with all these innovative thread-starting ideas rattling around in your grey matter?



Worried sick about Amy Whitehouse - not. Triumph of marketing over mediocrity, like Bjork, Sinnead O'connor, Elvis bloody Costello, any boy band, any girlie band. Err, that's it. (QUOTE)


I wonder if girl bands in the U.S. are called broad bands?

Keep up the good work.

Neil McCauley
16-07-2008, 11:31
Very droll. I subscribe to deviancy when it's that funny ! How do you sleep at night with all these innovative thread-starting ideas rattling around in your grey matter?

Strangely, the reverse is true and I kid you not, sleeping 15 hours during a 24 period is far from hard and sometimes hard to resist. Re occupation when asleep, yesterdays post on my blog site re what is for me a wonderful and inspirational mental aberration - Lucid dreaming - can be read here: http://blog.listencarefully.co.uk/?p=3024

Not a learned technique apparently. Just how the mental cards are dealt at conception I guess.

(QUOTE)

Neil McCauley
16-07-2008, 11:37
Jeez Howard, if you keep on like that you are going to end up like me...

Getting back to economics: I was speaking to someone I have known for many years about the current problems in his country, the US, and how he is taking on the down turn. He owns a rather large hardware store and has resorted to INCREASE his stock level of fast moving items. At the same time he dropped his margins slightly below his competitors. Every night he takes some stock off the slow movers and puts them in the warehouse. The trick appears to work and he is busier than any similar business in his neighbourhood.

What makes this post so interesting to me is that in all probability his innovative and clearly effective technique might well have been derived from first principles. I say this because as a 'student' of all aspects of retail marketing and boosting the CSI (Customer Satisfaction Index), I have not heard of this approach. Thank you.


--//--

Iain Sinclair
17-07-2008, 21:06
I dunno, Howard. I've always thought Elvis Costello is pretty bloody brilliant. And I would have thought that if all he'd ever done was Armed Forces and Imperial Bedroom.

Tim

Elvis Costello is indeed brilliant. It's little short of blasphemy to group him with boy bands and Amy Whinehouse.