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darkstar078
01-10-2010, 10:25
Hi,
Can anybody tell me something about the Kiseki Milltek Aurora cartridge which is on offer.
Is it worth buying and how much should I pay for it?
What I know it is in a good state and I'm told it is a high-end cart.
Should I dive into it or just let it pass? :scratch:

The Grand Wazoo
01-10-2010, 11:20
Milltek was the 'budget' brand from Kiseki - I understand that they were thought to be quite good at the time. That's all I know, I'm afraid.

Cheers

Marco
01-10-2010, 12:17
Can anybody tell me something about the Kiseki Milltek Aurora cartridge which is on offer.


On offer where, Sacha? :scratch:

Marco.

Spectral Morn
01-10-2010, 12:31
I could be wrong here as it was well over 20 years ago but I think that Presence Audio http://www.presenceaudio.com/ were the distributors in the UK they are now behind London (Decca) Cartridges.

These were (still might be) very good alternatives to Koetsu. They had if I remember right a more open and detailed sound than Koetsu (at the time Red and Black models) i.e less warm and lush but not bright or lean. I liked them a lot at the time.

I think that Presence audio also did Briar cartridges as well Mr & Mrs are legendary.

I will have a look through my old mags later and see what I can come up with.


Regards D S D L

darkstar078
02-10-2010, 11:32
This internet world is too fast for me evidently :doh:
I saw the ad on Marktplaats.nl just this week. A Pioneer PL-505 was on offer with a Kiseki Milltek Aura cart.
From the pix the table was looking mint, the seller stated the cartridge alone was worth 499 €.
Highest bid was then 225 €.
My guess he wasn't willing to let it go for 225 or there abouts and skipped the sale. Or ................:steam:

These things happen and yes I was willing to bid on the cartridge alone.
Now I need a beer or 2 to cool off
Cheers :cool:

Marco
02-10-2010, 19:53
I saw the ad on Marktplaats.nl just this week.


Ah... Thanks - never heard of it, though! :eyebrows:

Could you do me a favour, Sacha, and add your location to your profile? Cheers! :cool:

Marco.

Darren
03-10-2010, 08:13
Those Kiseki cartridges were very good in their day though nowhere near as Japanese as the name suggests.
The high end models were named after the substance their outer casing was made from. The top model was the kiseki Lapis Lazuli which was one bloody heavy cartridge.
The Aurora was towards the bottom of the range and certainly no Koetsu beater. It will need a rebuild by now and though the project could be fun there's no point in paying a lot for it.
I remember Jimmy Hughs loved the Goldbug cartridges though I never got to hear one myself.
Does anyone remember the Talisman Alchemist?

DSJR
03-10-2010, 09:13
My mate with the SME V had an Agat Ruby in it and it sounded sublime. We heard the Lapis Lazuli at Jimmy's place and at the time, thought it the closest to master tape I'd ever heard (before discovering NAS turntables and a decent Decca of course) - the Purpleheart Saphire was no slouch either. Whatever, the Kiseki's were bloomin good - a bit like a much refined OC9 style of presentation, with sparkle and punch when it was there but not when it wasn't and none of the bloom and "romance" colourations of a typical vintage Koetsu IMO. Those stone bodies were absolutely inert as I remember.

The Aurora was tested in the 'Choice compilation book no. 48 back in 1986/7. It was recommended at its price of £200 and was indeed distributed by Presence Audio :)

To quote..."Though less than the best, the Milltek comfortably rated "good" with all the appealing hallmarks of a classic big-n-beefy moving coil. The sound was fairly neutral, clear, open and atmospheric, with a wide subjective bandwidth that got a little untidy towards the extremes. Dynamics and bass were slightly softened, resolution pretty good, while an overall feeling of relaxed ease was noted."

"Beautiful build quality, fine lab performance, good compatibility, not to mention a good sound as well, must warrant recommendation for this fine and well balanced cartridge."

hifi_dave
03-10-2010, 09:36
I remember Jimmy Hughs loved the Goldbug cartridges though I never got to hear one myself.
Does anyone remember the Talisman Alchemist?

We tried the Goldbug cartridge as an alternative to the Koetsus of the time but they didn't match up, sounding a bit like they looked - fat and wooden. They also had the disadvantage of being an unknown brand.

Was the Talisman Alchemist an Ortofon Concorde look-a-like ?

DSJR
03-10-2010, 09:41
Dave, you didn't hear the review Mr Brier (their spelling) that Jimmy used. It was sublime and not at all fat or bloated. I borrowed it after it had six months of thrashimg under its belt and it took a little bit of setting up to come on song. When it did, it "disappeared" and surface noise was all but non-existant I found. Foolishly, I let Ian Bolt (the distributor) know I had it and he asked for it back. Either that or buy it for a good few hundred quid I didn't have.

Jimmy then went on to a Ms Brier and it wasn't quite as good as I remember. The baby model was too highly compliant for the Ittok as I recall, but could have been well matched to some of the lower mass arms these days.

hifi_dave
03-10-2010, 10:04
After all these years I can't remember which model I had, though I believe there was just the one at the time. I borrowed it from Prescence, the distributor then.

Marco
03-10-2010, 11:17
Hi Darren,

Just a quickie... Could you do me a favour, mate, and add your location details to your profile?

Cheers! :cool:

Marco.

Darren
03-10-2010, 16:38
Was the Talisman Alchemist an Ortofon Concorde look-a-like ?
Hi Dave, yes, I guess so. It had a gold finish and I think it was a high-ish output MC. Worked well into the ARC sp8 as I recall.
Y'know I always fancied a Decca but Ken Kessler put me off by going on about them needing special loading.......
-------------------------------------------------
Hi Marco,
I'm on my Iphone right now, will later on be OK?

Marco
03-10-2010, 16:41
Hi Darren,

No worries - much appreciated! :cool:

Marco.

Darren
03-10-2010, 19:13
"Jimmy then went on to a Ms Brier and it wasn't quite as good as I remember. The baby model was too highly compliant for the Ittok as I recall, but could have been well matched to some of the lower mass arms these days."

Hi Dave,
Was Jimmy Hughs really still using an Ittock? I remember him having a Zeta and a Bruer type 8.
I'd have given anything to hear his set up at that time. Did you get to hear the Maggy MGllls driven by a trio of Krell KSA50s?

hifi_dave
03-10-2010, 20:00
Hi Dave, yes, I guess so. It had a gold finish and I think it was a high-ish output MC. Worked well into the ARC sp8 as I recall.
Y'know I always fancied a Decca but Ken Kessler put me off by going on about them needing special loading.......
-------------------------------------------------
Hi Marco,
I'm on my Iphone right now, will later on be OK?

I remember now. We had one mounted on an Oracle Alexandria. It was OK but not imported for long enough to get established as a brand.

Spectral Morn
03-10-2010, 21:03
Glad my memory is still okay.

The shop I worked in at the time sold a lot of these carts.....those were the days. The Agat Ruby was a gem of a cart.



Regards D S D L

DSJR
03-10-2010, 21:15
"Jimmy then went on to a Ms Brier and it wasn't quite as good as I remember. The baby model was too highly compliant for the Ittok as I recall, but could have been well matched to some of the lower mass arms these days."

Hi Dave,
Was Jimmy Hughs really still using an Ittock? I remember him having a Zeta and a Bruer type 8.
I'd have given anything to hear his set up at that time. Did you get to hear the Maggy MGllls driven by a trio of Krell KSA50s?

If Jimmy used an Ittok in the 80's, it was only for a very short while, whereas the Bruer and Zeta's were in use for many years. Our lives (marriages etc) and friendship drifted apart in the mid 90's and I have no idea what he's using now (can't believe he's now around 60 years old - Yikes!!!).

Re the Maggies - Yes I did, on several occasions. Jimmy disbanded them because in his opinion it was like watching Crossroads or Corrie in IMAX at the cinema and just too much. he had them arse about face with the magnets behind instead of in front of the diaphragms and had them fixed to the side walls. They certainly made an impression, but the speakers he had then with the best compromise were the Krell-active 'briks and the Impulses, which didn't sound coloured at all. It was when he turned them to the wall behind that I really disagreed with him, especially after we'd heard the Humphrey Littleton band at the nearby barbican venue...

hifi_dave
03-10-2010, 22:19
We had the big Maggies driven by Krell KSA 100 and/or EAR 549's. Too much ? You bet...:lol:

Darren
03-10-2010, 23:12
We had the big Maggies driven by Krell KSA 100 and/or EAR 549's. Too much ? You bet...:lol:

Really? In what way Dave? The Maggies that I own/ have owned have all been so smooth and expansive sounding.
My first pair of SMGbs were nicknamed the musical ironing boards at home. They sounded so natural out into the room with loads of space behind and around them.

DSJR
04-10-2010, 07:48
Used the supplied way, the big Maggies are just as you describe Darren. Hifi dave meant that "too much" was perfect :lol:

Jimmy always wanted to go that much further, for good or ill, so the first thing he did was to remove the grille cloth, turn the speakers round so the sound came from the rear (magnets were then behind the diaphragm rather than in front of) and maybe did some crossover tinkering (I can't remember). The end result was a hugely OTT sound that could be fatiguing on bad recordings/mastering - a similar kind of thing to using high resolution huge monitors at home (large double-driver Tannoys, JBL's, ATC200/300's, that kind of thing). The Impulse speakers he ended up with had just the right balance of detail, dynamic range, lowish colouration and listening "comfort" too.

hifi_dave
04-10-2010, 09:13
Really? In what way Dave? The Maggies that I own/ have owned have all been so smooth and expansive sounding.
My first pair of SMGbs were nicknamed the musical ironing boards at home. They sounded so natural out into the room with loads of space behind and around them.

I love Maggies and we did OK with them but of course, a speaker of this size is always going to be a hard sell in GB even though we used to demonstrate that they are slim and can be pushed out of the way when not used.

A pair of MG-111 driven by a pair of EAR 549 monoblocks was an awesome sound, producing a truly massive soundstage and bags of solid midband.

SPS
04-10-2010, 11:21
hope you dont mind me asking.. but i have a kiseki blue gold spot i bought around 12 years ago.. i had it rebuilt.. just to stop me wondering what i had really had..

when i got it back it owsted the lyra lydian beta i had just bought

i was quite pleased..

it's been in the draw for at least 6 years..
what i was quite impressed with, was the matching step up transformers
which i still use on occasions.. they are audiophile products mc1 silver wired
they must be rare .. i've been looking for review / info ever since
any experts? there's very little on the web (or so it seems)

cheers
steve

hifi_dave
04-10-2010, 14:46
hope you dont mind me asking.. but i have a kiseki blue gold spot i bought around 12 years ago.. i had it rebuilt.. just to stop me wondering what i had really had..

when i got it back it owsted the lyra lydian beta i had just bought

i was quite pleased..

it's been in the draw for at least 6 years..
what i was quite impressed with, was the matching step up transformers
which i still use on occasions.. they are audiophile products mc1 silver wired
they must be rare .. i've been looking for review / info ever since
any experts? there's very little on the web (or so it seems)

cheers
steve

Is the transformer a black tube approx 9 inches long x 2.5 inches diameter, with a captive incon and mounted on a wooden cradle ?

Darren
04-10-2010, 17:51
hope you dont mind me asking.. but i have a kiseki blue gold spot i bought around 12 years ago.. i had it rebuilt.. just to stop me wondering what i had really had..

when i got it back it owsted the lyra lydian beta i had just bought

i was quite pleased..

it's been in the draw for at least 6 years..
what i was quite impressed with, was the matching step up transformers
which i still use on occasions.. they are audiophile products mc1 silver wired
they must be rare .. i've been looking for review / info ever since
any experts? there's very little on the web (or so it seems)

cheers
steve

Hi Steve,
You lucky Jotter.... I wish I had a kiseki stuck in a drawer someplace and a pair of silver wired transformers as well.... What a nightmare for you! ( joke)
I can smell a second analogue front end coming on here..... If you don't use 'em, you'll lose 'em!
( or I'll buy them off you for peanuts!)

quickie
04-10-2010, 20:20
I had a Milltek Olympia for a while on a Kuzma Stogi/PT Anniversary which I think was the model up from the Aurora.

Very nice cartridge though no where near the performance of the Kiseki Agate Ruby also had at the time.

Paul.

SPS
05-10-2010, 08:18
Is the transformer a black tube approx 9 inches long x 2.5 inches diameter, with a captive incon and mounted on a wooden cradle ?

thats the one dave, there's a couple of transformers inside, silver endcaps

i dont have the wood stand though... do you know it?

darren,

i have a few other hobbys.. so i dont use my hi fi that often really

the record player got its first use since may, on saturday night...

last spring i bought a dynavector ultimo 30a, (what i believed to be a van den hul rebuild ? it has a 2009 brul & Kjoer print out, which i believe is their rebuild trademark ?)

that the best sounding cart i have at the moment.. i still have a soft spot for the m3d too..

any info is appreciated on any of my 'rare' bits..

cheers
steve

DSJR
05-10-2010, 08:34
That Kiseki Blue was good as i remember, but just a bit "raw" compared to the better models in the range. i suspect it would sell for around a grand nowadays, assuming the market was there.

hifi_dave
05-10-2010, 09:27
thats the one dave, there's a couple of transformers inside, silver endcaps

i dont have the wood stand though... do you know it?

darren,

i have a few other hobbys.. so i dont use my hi fi that often really

the record player got its first use since may, on saturday night...

last spring i bought a dynavector ultimo 30a, (what i believed to be a van den hul rebuild ? it has a 2009 brul & Kjoer print out, which i believe is their rebuild trademark ?)

that the best sounding cart i have at the moment.. i still have a soft spot for the m3d too..

any info is appreciated on any of my 'rare' bits..

cheers
steve

Yes, I bought one back in the 80's when Absolute Sounds first inported the original Koetsu. At that time it was marketed as Sugano's recommended transformer and I still have it.

Over the years I have compared it to many transformers, some at 20 x the price and it has always won hands down. It's seriously good.

Early on I replaced the silver Audionote lead with something better that doesn't break and I am using it to this day.

SPS
05-10-2010, 10:45
That Kiseki Blue was good as i remember, but just a bit "raw" compared to the better models in the range. i suspect it would sell for around a grand nowadays, assuming the market was there.

thanks dave for that.. i turned down an offer of £250 a couple of years ago
i nearly accepted..
thanks

SPS
05-10-2010, 10:55
Yes, I bought one back in the 80's when Absolute Sounds first inported the original Koetsu. At that time it was marketed as Sugano's recommended transformer and I still have it.

Over the years I have compared it to many transformers, some at 20 x the price and it has always won hands down. It's seriously good.

Early on I replaced the silver Audionote lead with something better that doesn't break and I am using it to this day.

thanks dave.. i've not really compared it to anything .. other than it sounds good to me..

thats some recommendation..no wonder they dont come up for sale?
i've spoke to lots of people about it.. and not many even know of them

... and nice to know there's another one somewhere in use
i guess they where reasonably expensive when new?


as far as i know there is a mk 2 version ?
mines from 1981/82 i think.. and was bought with a delphi mk2 /frs64 combo

hifi_dave
05-10-2010, 11:14
It wasn't around for long, just a few months as I recall and then Absolute Sounds stopped distributing it. We only sold two or three and they went with the FR-64S on the Oracle with a Koetsu. Where did your one come from ?

SPS
05-10-2010, 11:36
It wasn't around for long, just a few months as I recall and then Absolute Sounds stopped distributing it. We only sold two or three and they went with the FR-64S on the Oracle with a Koetsu. Where did your one come from ?

I did not get chance to to talk to guy who bought it new.. but he lived in Hull

I've had it since the late 90's.. i know very liitle about who stocked them in the uk... or who may have sold it new

thanks for the info...

cheers
steve

Darren
05-10-2010, 17:00
I'm not a customer of Hifi Dave nor have I ever met DSJR. But I think it has to be said..... What a bloody asset to this forum the pair of them are.
They have such a wealth of knowledge and a willingness to share it.
I know that many others give as much as they can but those two really do have such a broad range of product knowledge.
Cheers boys

DSJR
05-10-2010, 17:10
:o :glug: :peace: :wave: :grouphug:

Darren
05-10-2010, 17:24
:o :glug: :peace: :wave: :grouphug:

Hope I haven't made your head big....... :)

DSJR
05-10-2010, 17:30
Been there, squashed it in too many doors and hopefully feel humbled in the processes...

I miss it, but not sure if I could now exist in a retail environment now, as VFM takes precedence over profit.

hifi_dave
05-10-2010, 19:13
Oh thanks.

I'm sitting here blushing.:o